VW aren’t going to threaten Tesla at this rate…

[Piginapoke]

ZesPak said:

TheDeuce said:

I also think their first foray in to EV, the ID. series, just isn't all that competitive. There's better EV's for the money with comparable space/seats, or close enough. Not a big deal in the longer term for VW but short term I think they simply misjudged things a little. The same for the e-tron actually. All just a bit.. staid. Could there not have been a bit more fun and power offered with these cars? It's a tricky one as VW as a brand generally doesn't offer the fastest/funnest cars compared to other brands they now own. But on the other hand, they're kind of a premium brand and in the world of EV, when you pay for a premium car you kind of expect it will have the power to excite and a few EV tech bells and whistles.

It's not what they do though. They offer a place of comfort. Been shopping with my sister and her OH for a couple of weeks... ended up with the ID3.
The ID3 is a pretty good package for the money though here.
A reasonably equipped ID3 undercuts the (imo vastly superior) Ioniq 5 and Tesla Model 3 start prices by a good 20%.
The only ones in the bracket were the Kona and while that's a good car on it's own, the ID3 just feels like the better overall package (performance, space).
They ignored MG completely as the VW is a VW... and it's German...

In short, they offer an ok package without being great, with ok performance and ok looks. All very safe combined with a strong brand, hard to ignore.
Their current delivery date is set to October... hope they don't get any bad news on that front as we've heard from others.

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

[ZesPak]

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

I also like the look, I just said it was inoffensive and very "safe" so won't look bad to anyone.
As for the lack of power, the most potent one has more poke than anything south of the Golf GTI, so plenty for over 99% of buyers I'd say.

As for tech, never been in a VW where tech was impressive. Compared to the Polestar 2 and Tesla it just feels at least 2 generations behind. It's a Nokia communicator in an Android age.

[ajap1979]

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

Do you have the same criticism of the base EV6 and Ioniq 5? They both offer almost identical performance, but are several thousand pounds more expensive.

I think that's the crux of the problem with EVs, there is enough choice for comparisons to be made, but a lot of the time it's comparing apples to oranges. Completely different price points, SUVs compared against saloon cars. It's almost like the traditional process of choosing a car, I want a certain type of car for a specific amount of money, has been thrown out of the window. ID3 vs Model 3 is like a Golf vs 3-Series twin test, it would never happen.

[Piginapoke]

ajap1979 said:

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

Do you have the same criticism of the base EV6 and Ioniq 5? They both offer almost identical performance, but are several thousand pounds more expensive.

I think that's the crux of the problem with EVs, there is enough choice for comparisons to be made, but a lot of the time it's comparing apples to oranges. Completely different price points, SUVs compared against saloon cars. It's almost like the traditional process of choosing a car, I want a certain type of car for a specific amount of money, has been thrown out of the window. ID3 vs Model 3 is like a Golf vs 3-Series twin test, it would never happen.

When I test drove an ID3, the tech was laggy and much of it was unfathomable, the interior full of scratchy plastics. I'm amazed they put this same interior into the Golf, it's just poor design its nothing to do with price points.

[Piginapoke]

ZesPak said:

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

I also like the look, I just said it was inoffensive and very "safe" so won't look bad to anyone.
As for the lack of power, the most potent one has more poke than anything south of the Golf GTI, so plenty for over 99% of buyers I'd say.

As for tech, never been in a VW where tech was impressive. Compared to the Polestar 2 and Tesla it just feels at least 2 generations behind. It's a Nokia communicator in an Android age.

Agree, a Tesla is like Apple in that it all just works.

[ajap1979]

Piginapoke said:

ajap1979 said:

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

Do you have the same criticism of the base EV6 and Ioniq 5? They both offer almost identical performance, but are several thousand pounds more expensive.

I think that's the crux of the problem with EVs, there is enough choice for comparisons to be made, but a lot of the time it's comparing apples to oranges. Completely different price points, SUVs compared against saloon cars. It's almost like the traditional process of choosing a car, I want a certain type of car for a specific amount of money, has been thrown out of the window. ID3 vs Model 3 is like a Golf vs 3-Series twin test, it would never happen.

When I test drove an ID3, the tech was laggy and much of it was unfathomable, the interior full of scratchy plastics. I'm amazed they put this same interior into the Golf, it's just poor design its nothing to do with price points.

It was your comment re. lack of power that I was addressing. At the price point I don’t think it does lack performance.

The software is a valid concern, the cars I’ve driven with version 2.3 have been more-or-less fine. It’s not the most intuitive interface, but it’s improving, and version 3.0 is supposed to bring it to an altogether more acceptable standard.

The interior has also been improved in the MY22.5 cars that are starting to trickle through. The dash and door card materials have been improved and the seats are now a combination of black vegan leather and grey alcantara. Let’s not forget that the Tesla Model 3 is hardly devoid of cheap plastics, and the base Ioniq 5 uses some very suspect surface materials, and these are cars that are many thousands of pounds more. I think it’s a fact that the interior quality of most cars, regardless of fuel type, are going backwards, not forwards.

[Piginapoke]

ajap1979 said:

Piginapoke said:

ajap1979 said:

Piginapoke said:

I quite like the ID3 looks. Its the dire interior/tech and the lack of power VW need to fix.

Do you have the same criticism of the base EV6 and Ioniq 5? They both offer almost identical performance, but are several thousand pounds more expensive.

I think that's the crux of the problem with EVs, there is enough choice for comparisons to be made, but a lot of the time it's comparing apples to oranges. Completely different price points, SUVs compared against saloon cars. It's almost like the traditional process of choosing a car, I want a certain type of car for a specific amount of money, has been thrown out of the window. ID3 vs Model 3 is like a Golf vs 3-Series twin test, it would never happen.

When I test drove an ID3, the tech was laggy and much of it was unfathomable, the interior full of scratchy plastics. I'm amazed they put this same interior into the Golf, it's just poor design its nothing to do with price points.

It was your comment re. lack of power that I was addressing. At the price point I don’t think it does lack performance.

The software is a valid concern, the cars I’ve driven with version 2.3 have been more-or-less fine. It’s not the most intuitive interface, but it’s improving, and version 3.0 is supposed to bring it to an altogether more acceptable standard.

The interior has also been improved in the MY22.5 cars that are starting to trickle through. The dash and door card materials have been improved and the seats are now a combination of black vegan leather and grey alcantara. Let’s not forget that the Tesla Model 3 is hardly devoid of cheap plastics, and the base Ioniq 5 uses some very suspect surface materials, and these are cars that are many thousands of pounds more. I think it’s a fact that the interior quality of most cars, regardless of fuel type, are going backwards, not forwards.

I agree that round town it was really nippy, and was fine up to say 70 but tailed off after that. As you say probably fine for most people. I also tried the ID4 (single motor) and thought that was a real bus, dangerously slow above 60 and you wouldn't want to be overtaking much. I've not tried the GTX but imagine that's much better.

[ajap1979]

I don't often drive much above 70mph

Either way, my point remains, it's as fast as any car that could be sensibly compared to it.

[Heres Johnny]

Piginapoke said:

Agree, a Tesla is like Apple in that it all just works.

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

[Piginapoke]

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

Agree, a Tesla is like Apple in that it all just works.

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

I don't need to, I have one.

[Heres Johnny]

Piginapoke said:

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

Agree, a Tesla is like Apple in that it all just works.

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

I don't need to, I have one.

You would never know based on your comment.

[Piginapoke]

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

Agree, a Tesla is like Apple in that it all just works.

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

I don't need to, I have one.

You would never know based on your comment.

So I liked the car I bought, why is that so odd?

[Mach]

Heres Johnny said:

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

Couldn't agree more, the only saving grace for a Tesla Model 3 is the supercharger network.

As a car, I think it's a badly made and at times dangerous pile of junk.

It will respond to a voice command to "open buthole" or do a whoopee cushion (tragic beyond belief) yet ask for the windscreen wipers or the rear foglight and you get nothing, you have to start stabbing at the stupidly small icons on a screen completely out of the eyeline you need to see where you're going. Horrible thing in my view.

And yes, I do run one but only as a company car because it's stupid cheap BIK and I can use the supercharger network.

To relate it to an Apple product is laughable in my view. I spend plenty on Apple products because they do work, I'd never spend a penny of my own money on a Tesla and would certainly never hold it up as a beacon with which to criticise EV's from other Manufacturers.

Apologies for sounding a bit rabid, I'm a very relaxed person in real life

[Heres Johnny]

Piginapoke said:

So I liked the car I bought, why is that so odd?

Nothing to do with whether you like it, you said everything just worked like it does with Apple. That’s easy to demonstrate as being untrue, I gave an initial list earlier.

Anybody thinking buying a Tesla is like buying Apple build quality and software reliability and even ease of use are deluded. Tesla has a lot more in common with early Android phone which required a level of geekiness to use all the features

[Piginapoke]

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

So I liked the car I bought, why is that so odd?

Nothing to do with whether you like it, you said everything just worked like it does with Apple. That’s easy to demonstrate as being untrue, I gave an initial list earlier.

Anybody thinking buying a Tesla is like buying Apple build quality and software reliability and even ease of use are deluded. Tesla has a lot more in common with early Android phone which required a level of geekiness to use all the features

So you're saying that I shouldn't be happy with my tesla?

[coetzeeh]

Piginapoke said:

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

So I liked the car I bought, why is that so odd?

Nothing to do with whether you like it, you said everything just worked like it does with Apple. That’s easy to demonstrate as being untrue, I gave an initial list earlier.

Anybody thinking buying a Tesla is like buying Apple build quality and software reliability and even ease of use are deluded. Tesla has a lot more in common with early Android phone which required a level of geekiness to use all the features

So you're saying that I shouldn't be happy with my tesla?

Stop trolling. He never said that.

[JonChalk]

JonChalk said:

https://twitter.com/bertelschmitt/status/148372067...

Not interested in a pro/anti VW/Tesla discussion (though will inevitably end up in one),

I'm surprised it didn't descend to this level sooner, so there's that.....

[off_again]

Heres Johnny said:

You need to join a Tesla owners forum and read up on auto wipers, auto headlights, phantom braking, the UI changes that pushed basic controls like rear window heater into a submenu, rear camera is glitchy and delayed after a recent update, the app using the wrong units, the charging scheduler which is singularily the most unituitive piece of software ever written to set a charging start and stop time etc. I'm not saying the opposition are any better but Tesla is a long long long way behind Applie in "just working".

You raise an interesting point. I think we are beyond the 'early adopter' phase with Tesla, but clearly there are other factors at play. Its going to be interesting to see what happens going forward. Early buyers were prepared to overlook small issues and problems, because they were buying into what they thought was the future. As more and more 'normal' buyers join their ranks, I think that basic stuff like this will become more and more important. Your average buyer of a new car wont accept simple functionality issues. Their previous VW, BMW, Mercedes, Kia, hell even Citroen have cracked the basic stuff. And spinning it as a 'feature' is going to pass less and less. How Tesla chooses to deal with this is going to be the interesting part. Do they go 'mainstream' and risk their rabid fans blowback? Or do they continue to chart a course that causes the average buyer issues? MMmm, interesting.

And yes, Apple - expensive trendy pieces of hipster crap, right? My wife lost an Airpod Pro bud, ordered a new one - arrived the next day! Daughter dropped her iPad Pro in the pool (yes, I know, it raises the question of HOW?). Raised a ticket on the Applecare+ service and had a brand new one delivered in 3 days. Powered it on, entered in a password and it restored everything in 30 minutes. Cool. Does Google or Samsung offer the same thing? Actually yes. Its not the same thing by any stretch, but consumers expect a high level of service and its simple things that Tesla (and others) are falling down on at the moment. It should 'just work' and that means repairs, updates, fixes and services - we demand and expect better.

[SWoll]

Heres Johnny said:

Piginapoke said:

So I liked the car I bought, why is that so odd?

Nothing to do with whether you like it, you said everything just worked like it does with Apple. That’s easy to demonstrate as being untrue, I gave an initial list earlier.

Anybody thinking buying a Tesla is like buying Apple build quality and software reliability and even ease of use are deluded. Tesla has a lot more in common with early Android phone which required a level of geekiness to use all the features

I had more trouble with Apple build quality and software in 2 years than I did with our Tesla. Delaminating screen (laptop), battery issues (laptop and phone), replacement power supply (laptop), regular CarPlay crashes (phone) etc.

I also never found it any more difficult to use than an Apple product, the UI is a lot more intuitive than many I've used for the day to day stuff at least and it's incredibly responsive.

IME experience Apple's kit and service is overrated by fanboys in exactly the same way I see Tesla owners accused of. The reality having owned both appears to be that they share quite a few similarities.

[SWoll]

off_again said:

And yes, Apple - expensive trendy pieces of hipster crap, right? My wife lost an Airpod Pro bud, ordered a new one - arrived the next day! Daughter dropped her iPad Pro in the pool (yes, I know, it raises the question of HOW?). Raised a ticket on the Applecare+ service and had a brand new one delivered in 3 days. Powered it on, entered in a password and it restored everything in 30 minutes. Cool. Does Google or Samsung offer the same thing? Actually yes. Its not the same thing by any stretch, but consumers expect a high level of service and its simple things that Tesla (and others) are falling down on at the moment. It should 'just work' and that means repairs, updates, fixes and services - we demand and expect better.

You might want to point out just how much Applecare+ costs in addition to the purchase price of the item. Or the excess charges for each claim? Or the limitations on the number of claims in a 12 month period?

It's a great service I agree, but then it should be for the price.