2023 Prius (Sadly not coming here!)

[Snow and Rocks]

AmitG said:

I'll give feedback to my dealer. I've had loads of new cars from them including a Prius+, Prius Gen4, Corolla saloon and Camry so I'm going to make it clear that if they brought it over at a non-crazy price they'd have another sale.

As an aside, how do you get on with the Camry?

I hoped they would depreciate like most big non-premium saloons but they don't seem to be dropping at all.

[AmitG]

Snow and Rocks said:

As an aside, how do you get on with the Camry?

I hoped they would depreciate like most big non-premium saloons but they don't seem to be dropping at all.

I loved the Camry, and today I think of it as the best car I've ever owned. It was a real "do it all" car. Massively comfortable, refined, huge inside and out, well built, economical, totally reliable, and very surprisingly quick in real world driving.

It is a little big for city streets, the handling is a little wallowy (it's big and FWD) and the infotainment was out of date but that is all the negatives I can think of.

I only traded it in because I was offered an insanely good trade-in price and I felt that I might as well take advantage of it and try something else. Without that, I would still have it.

I believe that Toyota only brought over 500 per year to the UK, and for a couple of years only, which is why they are so rare (and that probably helps residuals). My dealer says that they all sold quickly, so clearly there is demand for non-SUVs if the product is right.

I think that Toyota UK are missing a trick by not bringing more stuff over. When they killed the Prius+ they were left with no MPV offering. They said there was no demand but private hire drivers were screaming out for a hybrid MPV. The prices of used Prius+ are crazy high. JDM importers did good business in importing the Estima from Japan. If Toyota UK had done that, they would have loads of customers IMHO.

I'm hoping that Toyota bring the new Crown over to the UK

[Evanivitch]

Richyboy said:

The first time I’ve ever wanted a Prius and it’s not coming here lol. 13.5KWH battery for town and petrol for long trips, solar roof, looks desirable and Toyota reliability.

Battery size is disappointing, I thought more recent PHEV were looking at significantly larger batteries to meet the future legislation. Toyota, for a company with more history than most in electrification, continues to disappoint.

[Auslander]

50+ miles would seem like the ideal compromise between battery and ICE in a PHEV.

As the EV heads continue to tell us, the average driver drives 28 miles a day, so we don't need to worry about range and charger availability, or local grid capacity, because we all drive such low miles.

So with 50+ miles of range, the new Prius is exactly what most drivers need.

I've have seriously considered a salary sacrifice lease on one if they came to the UK, because they are absolutely bang on for my use.

[Snow and Rocks]

Auslander said:

50+ miles would seem like the ideal compromise between battery and ICE in a PHEV.

I agree - even living in rural Aberdeenshire, 50 miles covers the majority of local driving on electric with longer journeys made easy with a proper long range and 70+ mpg.

Despite the huge/expensive battery our model 3 LR is still a bit of a nuisance on trips - the real world range disappears surprisingly quickly when you have friends on the north end of Skye and travel all over the place climbing hills at weekends.

Thanks for the Camry feedback - will keep an eye out for one to have a look at properly.

[DMZ]

JonChalk said:

DMZ said:

I’m assuming it’s partially Brexit related as in they can’t be bothered with UK certification. I would speculate that maybe the CO2 doesn’t hit the right thresholds for BIK in the UK. The business case for EU certification is easy to justify. There are various market peculiarities in Europe but they’ll sell plenty of these particularly if it looks as good as it does and comes in at a good price point. Plenty of people are still buying hybrids.

I'll see if I can find it but saw a quote from a Toyota UK director that said something along the lines of "we sold 165 Prius last year and 12,000+ C-HRs, so not worth the effort, as UK buyers don't want it".

edit: got the numbers wrong, but the principle right - Autocar provided this quote from toyota:

"This shift in UK market conditions has been reflected in Prius sales figures – there were 563 sales in 2021, in comparison to just under 18,000 hybrid Toyota C-HRs. Prius will continue to be sold in other European markets and will only be available as a plug-in version."

Edited by JonChalk on Friday 18th November 14:19

Edited by JonChalk on Friday 18th November 14:20

I know but you can't mention the B word in the UK as a justification, it's always something else. I think you'll find that the Prius hasn't sold well in the EU either. It's a completely new and different car so how it sold in the last six months hardly matters anyhow.

[Evanivitch]

Auslander said:

50+ miles would seem like the ideal compromise between battery and ICE in a PHEV.

As the EV heads continue to tell us, the average driver drives 28 miles a day, so we don't need to worry about range and charger availability, or local grid capacity, because we all drive such low miles.

So with 50+ miles of range, the new Prius is exactly what most drivers need.

I've have seriously considered a salary sacrifice lease on one if they came to the UK, because they are absolutely bang on for my use.

It's frustrating because my Ampera has a 16.5kWh battery but only 10.5kWh useable (very conservative battery management), and gets 30-40 miles range. The difference that a real 50 mile range would make is huge in the overall picture, and the battery is already there!!!

[Flumpo]

Snow and Rocks said:

AmitG said:

I'll give feedback to my dealer. I've had loads of new cars from them including a Prius+, Prius Gen4, Corolla saloon and Camry so I'm going to make it clear that if they brought it over at a non-crazy price they'd have another sale.

As an aside, how do you get on with the Camry?

I hoped they would depreciate like most big non-premium saloons but they don't seem to be dropping at all.

Yeah I thought they would be a bit of a 3 year old bargain. Prices seem to have held extremely well.

[off_again]

Evanivitch said:

Battery size is disappointing, I thought more recent PHEV were looking at significantly larger batteries to meet the future legislation. Toyota, for a company with more history than most in electrification, continues to disappoint.

Battery could be bigger, but I see Toyota looking to try and keep some sales from existing owners and maybe steal a few from other brands who just want convenience. Well here in the US at least. They will sell pretty much every one they bring in, so pretty sure it will be a success here.

However, Toyota has a plan for EV models and their current one for sale doesnt really stack up on range or power. They are going to have to pull their finger out and get a bunch of new models that are EV only into the market, pronto. However, the Prius would make a great stop-gap though - looks good, reliable and can do the EV thing for a short range; it will sell well here.

[VS02]

Really stupid how Toyota used to sell an awful looking car, that was great for cab drivers, but then binned it off because not enough people bought one. And now they are making an awesome looking car suitable for everybody, Toyota UK decide we shouldn’t have it. Nice!


Echoing the other comments, I reckon a LOT of JDM imports will hit the shores because Toyota UK made a mistake.. I’d be very happy driving one of those

[C G]

It's not just about sales of the old one but how many people buy non SUV shape, non luxury brand cars now? I can't think of any sold in significant numbers that don't have a German badge. I think it's hard to put together a business case for a normal "car" of medium to large size for any brand now regardless of drivetrain, unless it's a BMW or Audi.

[Auslander]

C G said:

It's not just about sales of the old one but how many people buy non SUV shape, non luxury brand cars now? I can't think of any sold in significant numbers that don't have a German badge. I think it's hard to put together a business case for a normal "car" of medium to large size for any brand now regardless of drivetrain, unless it's a BMW or Audi.

I wonder if we will see a Lexus based on this platform? That may suit the market better.

[C G]

Auslander said:

C G said:

It's not just about sales of the old one but how many people buy non SUV shape, non luxury brand cars now? I can't think of any sold in significant numbers that don't have a German badge. I think it's hard to put together a business case for a normal "car" of medium to large size for any brand now regardless of drivetrain, unless it's a BMW or Audi.

I wonder if we will see a Lexus based on this platform? That may suit the market better.

Lexus recently discontinued sales of the IS here so I doubt it.

Really the only non German brand medium/large car that is popular is the Tesla Model 3, but I imagine that's mainly due to the drivetrain and if there was an SUV equivalent people would buy that instead.

Even Mercedes buyers are now shifting to the SUV mods and the latest C class is rarely seen on the road.

[AmitG]

Auslander said:

I wonder if we will see a Lexus based on this platform? That may suit the market better.

Possibly it could be a new platform for the UX? The UX has been around for some time now, and has no PHEV option. It does - somewhat surprisingly - have a full electric option, and I have seen a few about. I am not sure if this new platform supports full BEV, but I don't think it would matter in this case, since I would expect the full-electric UX to be replaced by some dedicated BEV model.

[Silvanus]

I think poor Prius sales are also down to image, the Prius has a pretty terrible image here, despite being a good car. The UK is image obsessed and its killed many a decent car. The rise of the Crossover/SUV hasn't helped, neither has the rise of the Koreans and MG. Sales figures don't lie and they show Japanese brands aren't doing as well as they once were, Hyundai, Kia and MG are doing very well indeed. I'm actually wondering which Japanese brand will be next to exit the UK? Toyota and Nissan look fairly safe but not the others.

[AmitG]

Silvanus said:

I'm actually wondering which Japanese brand will be next to exit the UK? Toyota and Nissan look fairly safe but not the others.

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

I think that Mazda, Suzuki and Subaru will survive through their tech partnerships with Toyota, although I can also see Subaru also leaving.

Mitsubishi have already gone. And I miss Daihatsu

[VS02]

AmitG said:

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

I think that Mazda, Suzuki and Subaru will survive through their tech partnerships with Toyota, although I can also see Subaru also leaving.

Mitsubishi have already gone. And I miss Daihatsu

Honda I think they could be being saved with the new Civic and Jazz, I have seen quite a few already, maybe even the HRV and the next gen CRV too (the CRV especially). Honda-e needs improved range to sell more!


Mazda is on a roll, their cars are highly rated and they are increasing profit margins by having the new Mazda2/Demio as a cheaper rebadged Yaris, good move on their part with the way small car market is going.

Suzuki now just sell rebadged stuff although I am interested to see what the next generation Swift will look like (could sell a few if they play their cards right)

Subaru are essentially dead already, they sell the XV (hopeless), Forester (hopeless outdated), Outback (irrelevant in this decade with the powertrains offered), and Solterra (rebadged BZ4x, stillborn with the rubbish EV range, quality issues and price)


I’m surprised Mitsubishi didn’t at least stay to bring the new Outlander PHEV to the UK. With the way the last one sold, I could have thought they would have been kept afloat.

[Silvanus]

VS02 said:

AmitG said:

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

I think that Mazda, Suzuki and Subaru will survive through their tech partnerships with Toyota, although I can also see Subaru also leaving.

Mitsubishi have already gone. And I miss Daihatsu

Honda I think they could be being saved with the new Civic and Jazz, I have seen quite a few already, maybe even the HRV and the next gen CRV too (the CRV especially). Honda-e needs improved range to sell more!


Mazda is on a roll, their cars are highly rated and they are increasing profit margins by having the new Mazda2/Demio as a cheaper rebadged Yaris, good move on their part with the way small car market is going.

Suzuki now just sell rebadged stuff although I am interested to see what the next generation Swift will look like (could sell a few if they play their cards right)

Subaru are essentially dead already, they sell the XV (hopeless), Forester (hopeless outdated), Outback (irrelevant in this decade with the powertrains offered), and Solterra (rebadged BZ4x, stillborn with the rubbish EV range, quality issues and price)


I’m surprised Mitsubishi didn’t at least stay to bring the new Outlander PHEV to the UK. With the way the last one sold, I could have thought they would have been kept afloat.

Mazda cars have been highly rated for a good number of years but it didn't turn into sales. I think the people who do buy Mazdas, buy them because they are a little bit different to the norm. Selling rebadged Toyotas is a bit of a gamble. I've come close to buying a Mazda2 a few times but wouldn't buy a Mazda badged Yaris.

Suzuki seem very lost too, not quite sure where they are trying to position themselves and their range isn't great.

Mitsubishi was a bit of a surprise, the Outlander PHEV, was a good seller but it unfortunately didn't perform as well in the real world as on paper. Their pickup sales were hammered by Ford and VW and the Shogun was massively outdated.

Honda I think have been hit the hardest by the Korean/MG assault. Honda massively underestimated them and their higher pricing and bland range pushed loyal customers away.

I actually thought Subaru would disappear first, even Ssangyong sell more cars.

[Flumpo]

Silvanus said:

VS02 said:

AmitG said:

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

I think that Mazda, Suzuki and Subaru will survive through their tech partnerships with Toyota, although I can also see Subaru also leaving.

Mitsubishi have already gone. And I miss Daihatsu

Honda I think they could be being saved with the new Civic and Jazz, I have seen quite a few already, maybe even the HRV and the next gen CRV too (the CRV especially). Honda-e needs improved range to sell more!


Mazda is on a roll, their cars are highly rated and they are increasing profit margins by having the new Mazda2/Demio as a cheaper rebadged Yaris, good move on their part with the way small car market is going.

Suzuki now just sell rebadged stuff although I am interested to see what the next generation Swift will look like (could sell a few if they play their cards right)

Subaru are essentially dead already, they sell the XV (hopeless), Forester (hopeless outdated), Outback (irrelevant in this decade with the powertrains offered), and Solterra (rebadged BZ4x, stillborn with the rubbish EV range, quality issues and price)


I’m surprised Mitsubishi didn’t at least stay to bring the new Outlander PHEV to the UK. With the way the last one sold, I could have thought they would have been kept afloat.

Mazda cars have been highly rated for a good number of years but it didn't turn into sales. I think the people who do buy Mazdas, buy them because they are a little bit different to the norm. Selling rebadged Toyotas is a bit of a gamble. I've come close to buying a Mazda2 a few times but wouldn't buy a Mazda badged Yaris.

Suzuki seem very lost too, not quite sure where they are trying to position themselves and their range isn't great.

Mitsubishi was a bit of a surprise, the Outlander PHEV, was a good seller but it unfortunately didn't perform as well in the real world as on paper. Their pickup sales were hammered by Ford and VW and the Shogun was massively outdated.

Honda I think have been hit the hardest by the Korean/MG assault. Honda massively underestimated them and their higher pricing and bland range pushed loyal customers away.

I actually thought Subaru would disappear first, even Ssangyong sell more cars.

Be interesting to see how Mazda goes as they seem to have hit a bit of a crossroads. Their models have been priced against Ford, Vauxhall and the other standard brands. But if you sit in one the quality or at least perception of quality has made them feel like they are a step above but cheaper than Volvo or bmw, Audi.

Mazda is now pushing its prices a lot closer to the premium brands. The cx-60 is about £20k cheaper than an equivalent spec premium hybrid. But a hell of a lot more than the equivalent non premium brands.

Will current mazda customers be willing to pay more, who knows. But they need a better full ev than the current one. I’m hoping Mazda do well, we need choice other than vag.

The new civic is interesting, the reviews seem good.

[5s Alive]

As soon as I saw the gen 4 Prius I thought Toyota had dropped the ball. To my eyes the gen 5 has gone back to the jelly mould smoothness of my old gen 3 but is better resolved. Didn't like the interior of the gen 4 either. Didn't stop Toyota trying to "upgrade" me into one at every MOT though.







Lovely shape that will give a nice smooth tactile glide under the wash mitt...

But aargh, more diamond cut alloys that Scottish winters eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner.