Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[coetzeeh]

jjwilde said:

It's strange how these companies can be left behind, you can see the attitude which causes that on this thread alone. Angry old men who refuse to accept progress.

Luckily for us progress does not give a st what they think, it happens anyway.

Eg since this thread started Tesla has become worth twice what Toyota is worth, because the vast majority of people can see EVs are the future

Worth a Valuation are two very different things.

[coetzeeh]

ZesPak said:

History doesn't repeat itself. It just rhymes.

I'm well aware of Toyotas efforts. I'm a big fan of the company.

They probably have their reasons for not going ev, but all I've heard so far is "what we have now is good".

Toyota sold more RAV4 in North America in 2019 than Tesla sold of all models globally. Likely to repeat this again in 2020.

[Heres Johnny]

SWoll said:

You've chosen the states with the highest rates of state sales/use tax and one of the highest combined .

Plenty of states that either charge 0% or a far smaller percentage than California.

https://taxfoundation.org/2020-sales-taxes/

Silly me for picking where Tesla are based.

Of course you try to buy an EV in say Montana and pay less tax except Tesla have absolutely no presence there. Maybe it’s not quite as simple as it seems as Tesla are barred

Edited by Heres Johnny on Sunday 8th November 22:17

[Order66]

Heres Johnny said:

That’s pre local taxes- each state is different so they exclude from the website, pretty much everything in the US is priced before sales tax

Prices in US are always quoted before tax. So when Elon said a $35K car he was talking before tax - everyone in the US understands that, so he's pretty much kept to that promise.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

gangzoom said:

Toyota appears to be as interested in innovation right now as Nokia was back than.

That's a remarkable claim. Just because they're not dumping things in your lap doesn't mean they're not deeply committed to innovation.

It's lunacy to think that, because Toyota don't appear to be going balls deep into BEV, they're not progressive.

Toyota are playing the long game.

[ZesPak]

coetzeeh said:

ZesPak said:

History doesn't repeat itself. It just rhymes.

I'm well aware of Toyotas efforts. I'm a big fan of the company.

They probably have their reasons for not going ev, but all I've heard so far is "what we have now is good".

Toyota sold more RAV4 in North America in 2019 than Tesla sold of all models globally. Likely to repeat this again in 2020.

As someone pointed out, 2007 was the top year for Nokia.

[anonymous-user]

coetzeeh said:

jjwilde said:

It's strange how these companies can be left behind, you can see the attitude which causes that on this thread alone. Angry old men who refuse to accept progress.

Luckily for us progress does not give a st what they think, it happens anyway.

Eg since this thread started Tesla has become worth twice what Toyota is worth, because the vast majority of people can see EVs are the future

Worth a Valuation are two very different things.

[anonymous-user]

ZesPak said:

As someone pointed out, 2007 was the top year for Nokia.

Nokia is on its way back up, it sold the telecoms division to Microsoft in 2014 and is now a big player in 5G technology core infrastructure. They are likely to replace the Chinese suppliers as 5G rolls out in Europe and the USA.

I wouldn't bet against Toyota, the current market cap of Tesla is bullst, fundamentals always play out eventually.

[Heres Johnny]

Order66 said:

Heres Johnny said:

That’s pre local taxes- each state is different so they exclude from the website, pretty much everything in the US is priced before sales tax

Prices in US are always quoted before tax. So when Elon said a $35K car he was talking before tax - everyone in the US understands that, so he's pretty much kept to that promise.

If you think 38 is just like 35 then carry on, or try specsavers

[ZesPak]

Heres Johnny said:

If you think 38 is just like 35 then carry on, or try specsavers

If that's your "gotcha" for the argument that he/they don't deliver on his/their promises, you should re-evaluate yourself imo.

[Order66]

Heres Johnny said:

If you think 38 is just like 35 then carry on, or try specsavers

The general thrust was he'd get electric car pricing down to that segement. He did. No-one else is in doubt here.

[98elise]

coetzeeh said:

ZesPak said:

Tuna said:

"Won't be long"? It's three years after Tesla launched the car they claimed would cost $35K (still a premium price) - the base price of the poverty spec model is still $40K.

38k in the US. Well under the 35k in some states.

Do your quoted include all taxes ie on the road price?

Do you have a link to these low prices?

I thought the US always quote prices without tax as the tax is dependent on the state you're in? Certainly whenever I buy stuff in the states the price you see is not the price you pay.

I don't know if that applies to cars though.

[ZesPak]

98elise said:

I thought the US always quote prices without tax as the tax is dependent on the state you're in? Certainly whenever I buy stuff in the states the price you see is not the price you pay.

I don't know if that applies to cars though.

Yes, in the US they know the stated price is without VAT, main reason for this is that a lot of states operate different VATs. I traveled to Oregon a lot, which is one of the states that don't do VAT actually. Apple stuff for example is pretty "cheap" there, as an iPad was 499 USD, while that would be 499 EUR + 100 EUR VAT over here, which was well over 700 USD a couple of years ago.

[rjg48]

gangzoom said:

This interview is interesting if true, the boss of Toyota appears not to be bothered by Tesla.

Nobody is!

[lothianjim]

rjg48 said:

gangzoom said:

This interview is interesting if true, the boss of Toyota appears not to be bothered by Tesla.

Nobody is!

I'm, like, so unbelievably indifferent, it's untrue. Not even worth a section, they are so lame.

Or.... Tesla make the most desirable, fashionable cars on the road today.

Much as it might hurts, lots of people think the latter.

[rjg48]

carsalesbase.com/europe-tesla-model-3/

I doubt anyone will read it, 95,000 Model 3 sold across the whole of Europe in 2019.

Smashing it out of the park still.

[anonymous-user]

As other manufacturers bring out their EVs then choice will erode the Tesla figures.

A few things that will sway decisions:

Quality of the cars, the image of the cars, the image and approach of the company, how the cars are packaged to fit the needs of the consumer in terms of affordability and size, how the cars are marketed and sold and what the manufacturer - consumer relationship model will be.

[FeelingLucky]

rjg48 said:

gangzoom said:

This interview is interesting if true, the boss of Toyota appears not to be bothered by Tesla.

Nobody is!

Well, you clearly are.

[TheRainMaker]

rjg48 said:

carsalesbase.com/europe-tesla-model-3/

I doubt anyone will read it, 95,000 Model 3 sold across the whole of Europe in 2019.

Smashing it out of the park still.

I did

I'm starting to get figures together for a whole list of things so that website should be very helpful.

[Tuna]

Heres Johnny said:

Order66 said:

Heres Johnny said:

That’s pre local taxes- each state is different so they exclude from the website, pretty much everything in the US is priced before sales tax

Prices in US are always quoted before tax. So when Elon said a $35K car he was talking before tax - everyone in the US understands that, so he's pretty much kept to that promise.

If you think 38 is just like 35 then carry on, or try specsavers

Meanwhile, the world's top selling car is the Toyota Corolla... base price in the US is $19,800 - just a fraction away from half the price of the base Model 3.

Anyone thinking that Toyota should scrap that and introduce a car that is likely to be massively more expensive really, really doesn't understand business.