Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
alcatrazarmando said:
The wheels look to be falling off the EV bandwagon in dramatic fashion
...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
Old news actually. ...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
If they really are in free fall then punters will snap them up.
The truth is demand is increasing 50% year on year but the supply side post pandemic has overtaken demand and obviously increased electric cost have had an impact.
Electric rates have stabilised and are now creeping down.
In six months it will all settle down again.
Incidentally I bought a boat early 2020 and sold it mid last year for a healthy £25K profit because demand outstripped supply.
It's how markets work. Not everyone goes into panic mode though.
alcatrazarmando said:
SpeckledJim said:
alcatrazarmando said:
If it was not for the science you wouldnt even know anything was wrong with the planet - it looks like it is all kicking off now and it will only get worse - would not be surprised if someone gets killed amongst the mayhem
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11910455/...
EVs have around half a tonne of batteries per vehicle, how on earth do people think these things are saving the planet? Combustion engine cars in the UK are responsible for less than 1 percent of global greenhouse gases so theres absolutely no need to heckle the average tax payer and make them responsible, its not like the well heeled will be impacted by anything going on.
One of the reasons I never trust a politician, unfortuantely they are the same the world over - pay them sufficent wedge and they will work for anyone
You're not Pan Pan Pan, are you?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11910455/...
EVs have around half a tonne of batteries per vehicle, how on earth do people think these things are saving the planet? Combustion engine cars in the UK are responsible for less than 1 percent of global greenhouse gases so theres absolutely no need to heckle the average tax payer and make them responsible, its not like the well heeled will be impacted by anything going on.
One of the reasons I never trust a politician, unfortuantely they are the same the world over - pay them sufficent wedge and they will work for anyone
Bet you know whether 34 or 10 is bigger, don't you.
Now, lets see who is the thick one..
Edited by alcatrazarmando on Tuesday 28th March 21:13
Bold choice. I like it. Our survey said…!?
Nomme de Plum said:
alcatrazarmando said:
The wheels look to be falling off the EV bandwagon in dramatic fashion
...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
Old news actually. ...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
If they really are in free fall then punters will snap them up.
The truth is demand is increasing 50% year on year but the supply side post pandemic has overtaken demand and obviously increased electric cost have had an impact.
Electric rates have stabilised and are now creeping down.
In six months it will all settle down again.
Incidentally I bought a boat early 2020 and sold it mid last year for a healthy £25K profit because demand outstripped supply.
It's how markets work. Not everyone goes into panic mode though.
Just feel suitably sorry for the indies that misjudged the situation and are left with stock, ignore the moron media that are hyping the story, and accept that after decades of steadily and predictably flogging ICE cars, these guys got caught short.
The only reason they all have such hefty EV stock in the first place is that they knew the EV supply was falling short of demand and they could cash in, good on them. But they failed to predict how rapidly that situation would turn face, and now they're stuck with loss making stock.
This is not an EV vs ICE thing at all, this is just general trader drama that can effect any trader buying and selling anything in a tumultuous market.
Business 101, they got greedy, free lunch blah blah, they faltered. Of course EV was briefly stupidly overpriced on the used market, c'mon
All this crap will settle down as it always does. The crappiest 10% of traders will fail, because they're a bit crap and over exposed themselves in an uncertain market. That was their choice. The rest will learn, grow wiser as a result and crack on until the next series of global events screws up their day to day trading.
But back to PH, this is supposed to be a site for those interested in owning cars after all... The great news is that EV's are now catching up with demand, prices are falling, lease special offers are reappearing, the tax savings remain in tact, off we go. You want a several hundred horsepower car on your drive in a few months time for £500 a month? You can now have that again.
Business (nearly) as usual. Back to watching EV sales increase year on year, easily, because of actual predictable market forces - not what Ken at the local car dealership casually assumed would happen based on a very temporary situation.
Why do these threads repeatedly attract the exact same clone? The Daily Mail reading bloke who is convinced that everyone else is a sheeple or evangelist because they devoutly believe and follow something yet their arguments repeatedly fail to co rain any substance just mindless stuff that has been programmed into them.
They will bang on for a few weeks about the exact same stuff that was discussed years ago absolutely convinced that this is actually some kind of secret war against the downtrodden worker and then evaporate only to be replaced a week later by another identically programmed clone?
The biggest killer of humans is lard and laziness which is why the fat and stupid have lower life expectancy and are an endless drain on social and medical services. They also find very basic science threatening and are easily programmed to do the bidding of people selling them products they don't need.
What's genuinely interesting is how politicised a car motor has become and how GDP per capita prospects therefore impacts on how distressed certain social groups are about an object.
They will bang on for a few weeks about the exact same stuff that was discussed years ago absolutely convinced that this is actually some kind of secret war against the downtrodden worker and then evaporate only to be replaced a week later by another identically programmed clone?
The biggest killer of humans is lard and laziness which is why the fat and stupid have lower life expectancy and are an endless drain on social and medical services. They also find very basic science threatening and are easily programmed to do the bidding of people selling them products they don't need.
What's genuinely interesting is how politicised a car motor has become and how GDP per capita prospects therefore impacts on how distressed certain social groups are about an object.
DonkeyApple said:
The biggest killer of humans is lard and laziness which is why the fat and stupid have lower life expectancy and are an endless drain on social and medical services. They also find very basic science threatening and are easily programmed to do the bidding of people selling them products they don't need.
All of which is a result of poor education, but that’s a different topic to this thread. Merry said:
SWoll said:
We walk the dogs for longer than that on a daily basis. 44 minutes of peace where you can listen to some music/podcast etc. is exactly what many people could do with, without considering the exercise benefit.
Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.
You do that because you want to. Some people want to do something else with their time. Like maybe get home on time so they can see thier kids. Or go somewhere nicer to walk thier dogs. Whatever. Maybe thier walk home would be down a noisy street in the rain. Or at a daft hour. Or both. Not exactly idyllic is it? Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.
You can't buy time, to my mind no excuses need to be made if you want to save 40 odd minutes of it to do something you want to do.
Personally my commute is 21 miles, so I'm not ever walking that, but it annoys me when people instantly judge someone for something they may do for good reason.
t.It’s a bit like me, I live 1 mile from the supermarket, but jl drive there sometimes, if it’s raining or if I have lots of heavy stuff to carry, then the walk would be unpleasant, but if it’s sunny, or I don’t have much to buy then il walk down and back and enjoy it. Two trips, same distance, but vastly different. So just saying walk to work or walk there or get a bike is a bit of a stupid answer
CheesecakeRunner said:
DonkeyApple said:
The biggest killer of humans is lard and laziness which is why the fat and stupid have lower life expectancy and are an endless drain on social and medical services. They also find very basic science threatening and are easily programmed to do the bidding of people selling them products they don't need.
All of which is a result of poor education, but that’s a different topic to this thread. Nickbrapp said:
Merry said:
SWoll said:
We walk the dogs for longer than that on a daily basis. 44 minutes of peace where you can listen to some music/podcast etc. is exactly what many people could do with, without considering the exercise benefit.
Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.
You do that because you want to. Some people want to do something else with their time. Like maybe get home on time so they can see thier kids. Or go somewhere nicer to walk thier dogs. Whatever. Maybe thier walk home would be down a noisy street in the rain. Or at a daft hour. Or both. Not exactly idyllic is it? Stop making excuses, it's pure laziness.
You can't buy time, to my mind no excuses need to be made if you want to save 40 odd minutes of it to do something you want to do.
Personally my commute is 21 miles, so I'm not ever walking that, but it annoys me when people instantly judge someone for something they may do for good reason.
t.It’s a bit like me, I live 1 mile from the supermarket, but jl drive there sometimes, if it’s raining or if I have lots of heavy stuff to carry, then the walk would be unpleasant, but if it’s sunny, or I don’t have much to buy then il walk down and back and enjoy it. Two trips, same distance, but vastly different. So just saying walk to work or walk there or get a bike is a bit of a stupid answer
, the easy fix all is to slowly and steadily make the stuff we do less damaging. Those short distances are very clearly better to be done using electricity rather than petrol if they can't be cut out altogether. TheDeuce said:
Nomme de Plum said:
alcatrazarmando said:
The wheels look to be falling off the EV bandwagon in dramatic fashion
...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
Old news actually. ...Car Shop CEO Nigel Hurley said he wasn’t buying EVs ‘unless they were really cheap’, while Premier GT boss David Trigg said he refuses to buy Porsche’s electric Taycan, labelling the car a ‘disaster’.
Peter Smyth, director of family-owned car dealer group Swansway, told Car Dealer yesterday that he thinks there ‘isn’t one dealer in the country who hasn’t lost money on used electric cars in the past few months’.
Used EV values have been in free fall since October last year, brought on by increased supply at a time buyers have been scared off by electric prices and the cost of living
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/bbc-featur...
If they really are in free fall then punters will snap them up.
The truth is demand is increasing 50% year on year but the supply side post pandemic has overtaken demand and obviously increased electric cost have had an impact.
Electric rates have stabilised and are now creeping down.
In six months it will all settle down again.
Incidentally I bought a boat early 2020 and sold it mid last year for a healthy £25K profit because demand outstripped supply.
It's how markets work. Not everyone goes into panic mode though.
Just feel suitably sorry for the indies that misjudged the situation and are left with stock, ignore the moron media that are hyping the story, and accept that after decades of steadily and predictably flogging ICE cars, these guys got caught short.
The only reason they all have such hefty EV stock in the first place is that they knew the EV supply was falling short of demand and they could cash in, good on them. But they failed to predict how rapidly that situation would turn face, and now they're stuck with loss making stock.
This is not an EV vs ICE thing at all, this is just general trader drama that can effect any trader buying and selling anything in a tumultuous market.
Business 101, they got greedy, free lunch blah blah, they faltered. Of course EV was briefly stupidly overpriced on the used market, c'mon
All this crap will settle down as it always does. The crappiest 10% of traders will fail, because they're a bit crap and over exposed themselves in an uncertain market. That was their choice. The rest will learn, grow wiser as a result and crack on until the next series of global events screws up their day to day trading.
But back to PH, this is supposed to be a site for those interested in owning cars after all... The great news is that EV's are now catching up with demand, prices are falling, lease special offers are reappearing, the tax savings remain in tact, off we go. You want a several hundred horsepower car on your drive in a few months time for £500 a month? You can now have that again.
Business (nearly) as usual. Back to watching EV sales increase year on year, easily, because of actual predictable market forces - not what Ken at the local car dealership casually assumed would happen based on a very temporary situation.
AstonZagato said:
It also amuses me that we now apparently have "Schrodinger's affordability" for EV's. The EV bingo crowd berate EVs for being too expensive and elitist accessories. They are also now berating them for being worthless in the second hand market.
In 10 or 15 years time the same people will be moaning that the latest and greatest battery technology has reduced the weight of the cars too much and they miss the feeling of 'plantedness' that early EVs had...GT9 said:
AstonZagato said:
It also amuses me that we now apparently have "Schrodinger's affordability" for EV's. The EV bingo crowd berate EVs for being too expensive and elitist accessories. They are also now berating them for being worthless in the second hand market.
In 10 or 15 years time the same people will be moaning that the latest and greatest battery technology has reduced the weight of the cars too much and they miss the feeling of 'plantedness' that early EVs had...
bigothunter said:
whirlybird said:
bigothunter said:
Too cryptic for a man who previously quoted Python...
Anne Elk - geddit?
NO, sorry, Anne Elk - geddit?
Google is your friend. If you can be bothered, try using it on Anne Elk
( Now let's get back to cars that fall over !!!! )
Edited by whirlybird on Wednesday 29th March 10:13
tamore said:
oh do shut up. who thinks EVs standalone are 'saving the planet'? just trite.
moving to electrification via renewable energy is much, much bigger than EVs alone.
Agreed. moving to electrification via renewable energy is much, much bigger than EVs alone.
Take a stupid position then argue against it like you're the voice of reason.
Nobody even remotely intelligent thinks EV are the one thing that will save the planet. Its all small steps in the right direction.
98elise said:
alcatrazarmando said:
tamore said:
oh do shut up. who thinks EVs standalone are 'saving the planet'?.
erm, people buying them? that is what they are told is it not?Maracus said:
Nor me. Way cheaper than an ICE car for BIK and running costs for myself and other colleagues where I work.
and that's bang on the money for most recent EV adoption. early leafs etc, was probably a lot of evangelism and virtue signalling. long in the past now, so people are getting them eyes wide open for the financial benefits with the slight (current) detraction of public charging, or blindly following a perceived trend and expecting it to be exactly like ICE ownership and being shocked that it's different.Yup. Back in the last decade when adoption was minuscule and it was only really Tesla selling cars, there were certainly choppers on PH who were brand fanatics who genuinely thought being associated with a particular brand a better human and they wouldn't half bang on about how they were special and saving the planet. But that was some years ago and the market in the U.K. really took off on the back of other brands appearing and the BIK ruling. The brand fanatic has somewhat faded into the background upon the arrival of normal people just opting to buy the car that fits their needs. What hasn't changed is the frothing loon who gets triggered by a tabloid article and runs off to do their master's bidding.
This came up today, you would think the AA wouldn't be doing their sums using the WLTP figures to work out the comparative running costs.
In my fairly extensive EV experience real world range is 2/3 of WLTP. Even worse it gets published as authorative news.
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/newsroom/aa-ev-rech...
In my fairly extensive EV experience real world range is 2/3 of WLTP. Even worse it gets published as authorative news.
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/newsroom/aa-ev-rech...
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