Hydrogen is the future of motoring
Discussion
kingofdbrits said:
I don't think the oil companies are holding things back, but if they wanted to they probably could. As an example Saudi Arabia contribute something like 5% of USA's GDP, use that kind of money wisely and you could influence just about anything, you may not stop it but could certainly postpone it.
And what would stop the Europeans or the Chinese or the Koreans or Malaysians developing the technology? Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that shady oil interests are suppressing the development of the internal combustion engine, there are just too many people with independent interests in building a better engine.kambites said:
CraigyMc said:
egads. Do you understand sarcasm?
To be fair, whilst anywhere sensible it would be obvious that such a comment wasn't serious, this is PH. Some people probably would think that was a valid argument for keeping their precious oil burners. C
otolith said:
And what would stop the Europeans or the Chinese or the Koreans or Malaysians developing the technology? Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that shady oil interests are suppressing the development of the internal combustion engine, there are just too many people with independent interests in building a better engine.
Playing devils advocate, the middle east have very serious investment in all developed countries, what if you were earning £500Bn a year selling oil and you found out a struggling motor company like GM have just developed a hydogen fuel cell car? rossmc88 said:
Seriously, that's it?Who funds that group? What's their agenda?
Let's please take this seriously for a moment. If you are going to claim that a group runs the world then it is very important that you have a cohesive and substantial backdrop to such an arguement.
Oil rich countries in the middle east are controlled by the super powers of the world. The ones who are not are constantly being harassed and provoked for a chance of another invasion.
Another good aspect of alternative energy source is that it would perhaps stop super powers from invading the middle east for oil, I guess. Good news for the middle east. But then it might make another region desirable and prone to invasion by powerful countries.
Another good aspect of alternative energy source is that it would perhaps stop super powers from invading the middle east for oil, I guess. Good news for the middle east. But then it might make another region desirable and prone to invasion by powerful countries.
Edited by Omshanti on Wednesday 1st August 19:34
kingofdbrits said:
otolith said:
And what would stop the Europeans or the Chinese or the Koreans or Malaysians developing the technology? Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that shady oil interests are suppressing the development of the internal combustion engine, there are just too many people with independent interests in building a better engine.
Playing devils advocate, the middle east have very serious investment in all developed countries, what if you were earning £500Bn a year selling oil and you found out a struggling motor company like GM have just developed a hydogen fuel cell car? Let's look at this sensibly. When a member of OPEC sells a barrel of oil, just how much of that oil is ultimately burnt in cars? How much is used in manufacturing and how much in energy generation?
If all the cars went electric overnight what would happen to the price of oil? Some people seem to think it would go down? Those people might not be understanding the oil market or the sources of demand.
In really simple terms how much oil as a percentage of total us is burnt as petrol in cars in contrast to how much is used to: extract the oil, ship the oil, fracture the oil, build and maintain a road network, manufacture the vehicles, light the roads etc etc etc. The petrol part is not a key player. It is not a price critical element of the demand side for raw oil.
We could also look at the accounts of the major oil companies and see just what % of their profits come from the wholesale of petrol as a comparison to their sales to paint, plastics, energy industries, manufacturing, geberal transport etc as well as looking at exchange incomes.
There are many, many red herrings from many, many people with agendas or just ignorance.
otolith said:
And the original claim was that oil interests have been suppressing the development of the internal combustion engine, not even that they have been suppressing alternatives. Which is odd, given how much cleaner and more efficient engines have become.
Oil companies rule the world. All political groups must be controlled by them. All political groups in the West have forced in laws to make cars use less fuel. This is clearly a very cunning trick by the oil companies. They force us to use less of their product by forcing the political leaders and car companies to make cars which need less. It's a trap!!!!!! And absolutely no one is thinking of the children!!!!!DonkeyApple said:
Oil companies rule the world. All political groups must be controlled by them. All political groups in the West have forced in laws to make cars use less fuel. This is clearly a very cunning trick by the oil companies. They force us to use less of their product by forcing the political leaders and car companies to make cars which need less. It's a trap!!!!!! And absolutely no one is thinking of the children!!!!!
How much less fuel do cars use these days than before? They are pretty much the same. Manufacturer MPG claims that meet EU regulations never match up to real life. The engines aren't that much more efficient.Compare engines to TV's. Look at the size of LED TV's these days compared to TV's 10-15 years ago, massive improvement in efficiency
I think these kinds of regulations (such as cars, light bulbs ...etc) are distractive caps to be put on the tip of the iceberg in order to hide the existence of the rest of the iceberg. They change nothing in the big picture but make people feel like issues are being addressed by, ironically, making people pay for them.
DonkeyApple said:
There are many, many red herrings from many, many people with agendas or just ignorance.
Quite true, i remember watching a programme about oil and one of the quotes i always remember was when they said burning oil to moves cars is waste of very good oil. I don't think oil producers make that much from petrol/diesel anyway so we would be far better off finding an alternative fuel to power cars. kambites said:
CraigyMc said:
egads. Do you understand sarcasm?
To be fair, whilst anywhere sensible it would be obvious that such a comment wasn't serious, this is PH. Some people probably would think that was a valid argument for keeping their precious oil burners. 
rossmc88 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Oil companies rule the world. All political groups must be controlled by them. All political groups in the West have forced in laws to make cars use less fuel. This is clearly a very cunning trick by the oil companies. They force us to use less of their product by forcing the political leaders and car companies to make cars which need less. It's a trap!!!!!! And absolutely no one is thinking of the children!!!!!
How much less fuel do cars use these days than before? They are pretty much the same. Manufacturer MPG claims that meet EU regulations never match up to real life. The engines aren't that much more efficient.Compare engines to TV's. Look at the size of LED TV's these days compared to TV's 10-15 years ago, massive improvement in efficiency
Plasma and LCD TVs use more power for the comparable screen size than a cathode TV.
Engines are clearly more efficient. You need to focus on the change of average weight of cars over the period of improved efficiency as well as the massive increase in power outputs per litre of fuel consumed.
But this does not answer the question as to how the oil companies rule the world?
I work with engine development for a big swedish truck manufacturer, i have a saudi sitting next to me right now, every time I come up with something good for fuel economy he smacks my fingers with a steel ruler....
He allows me to hang out at PH since that will inspire me to make thirsty V8s..
He allows me to hang out at PH since that will inspire me to make thirsty V8s..
CedricN said:
I work with engine development for a big swedish truck manufacturer, i have a saudi sitting next to me right now, every time I come up with something good for fuel economy he smacks my fingers with a steel ruler....
He allows me to hang out at PH since that will inspire me to make thirsty V8s..
exactly He allows me to hang out at PH since that will inspire me to make thirsty V8s..
Omshanti said:
I like hydrogen technology because it can be used for both fuel cell electric motors or internal combustion engines. As long as there are internal combustion engines there would be the need for gears hence manual gears will survive. If it's used for internal combustion engines then there isn't really much to change from what there already is either so probably much less cost as well. Unfortunately manufacturers seem to be more interested in using hydrogen for fuel cell electric motors. I remember until few years ago, there were many small companies in Japan competing with each other to perfect the hydrogen technology and many of them were developing hydrogen powered combustion engines. Some of them were even water powered. However, these small companies seem to have all gone bust and disappeared now, for some unknown reason. It's shame a really.
I really want the hydrogen powered combustion engine to take off. Then we can keep making hydrogen powered V8s, V10s and so on with manual transmissions.
This is a news clip I found of one company doing the combustion engine with water and hydrogen. It only emits water, and runs like a petrol car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV2M_1Ud188&fea...
I really want the hydrogen powered combustion engine to take off. Then we can keep making hydrogen powered V8s, V10s and so on with manual transmissions.
This is a news clip I found of one company doing the combustion engine with water and hydrogen. It only emits water, and runs like a petrol car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV2M_1Ud188&fea...
So that is your solution to the oil crisis
A petrol powered mini bus with a plastic bottle of water in the boot fitted with some random pipes and gears
Yes big oil is stopping us from knowing about the incredible technology know as a jam jar
Edited by thinfourth2 on Wednesday 1st August 18:34
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