Shockingly bad NCAP score for the Zoe
Discussion
wyson said:
I just watched the video on the Euroncap website. Because they got rid of the side head airbag, the dummy’s head hit the pole in the side impact test.
That isn’t good.
Even with the sled, you can see the dummys head pile through the glass because of the lack of head bag.
That isn’t good either.
Comparing old and new tests, the new model is about 100kg heavier, has a larger battery etc. Not to be sniffed at if the crash structures weren’t updated accordingly. Couldn’t find that information, but the lighter car is going to generate lower impact forces.
Personally, the side impact video’s would make this car a deal breaker for me. I’ve been through the consequences of a side impact, never will take safety for granted again.
Also don’t know how Euroncap could justify anything less than zero stars when one of their testing scenarios was potentially fatal because of the missing head side airbag.
I for one give you credit for doing the research on this and making a reasoned argument. You've gone up a notch in my book. That isn’t good.
Even with the sled, you can see the dummys head pile through the glass because of the lack of head bag.
That isn’t good either.
Comparing old and new tests, the new model is about 100kg heavier, has a larger battery etc. Not to be sniffed at if the crash structures weren’t updated accordingly. Couldn’t find that information, but the lighter car is going to generate lower impact forces.
Personally, the side impact video’s would make this car a deal breaker for me. I’ve been through the consequences of a side impact, never will take safety for granted again.
Also don’t know how Euroncap could justify anything less than zero stars when one of their testing scenarios was potentially fatal because of the missing head side airbag.
Edited by wyson on Thursday 9th December 22:34
For balance I would purely state that there are gazillions of cars on the road without side head airbags.
blank said:
The Rotrex Kid said:
Renault themselves have actually said 'Above all, our vehicles are designed to comply with all regulatory safety standards.
We do not design our vehicles for Euro NCAP performance.'
Surprised they've said that as they absolutely DO design and develop for a good ENCAP score, as do all other mainstream manufacturers.We do not design our vehicles for Euro NCAP performance.'
Monkeylegend said:
I would be surprised if many car drivers based their purchasing or leasing decisions on an NCAP rating. I know I haven't, ever.
In fact I would go as far to say that most have probably never even heard of NCAP.
If you asked most would likely think it was a bottle of Night Nurse.
Based on a sample of one, I can tell you that my sister in law bought her car because it had a "five-star safety rating". In fact I would go as far to say that most have probably never even heard of NCAP.
If you asked most would likely think it was a bottle of Night Nurse.
I doubt she'd have any idea what NCAP is, but the salesman/brochure showed her that one had a five star rating while the others she was considering didn't, so she dismissed them.
While I wouldn't buy a car purely because of a safety rating, if it came down to a choice of two that ticked all the boxes but one was 5 stars and the other 3 stars, it would be daft to pick the less safe option.
boyse7en said:
Monkeylegend said:
I would be surprised if many car drivers based their purchasing or leasing decisions on an NCAP rating. I know I haven't, ever.
In fact I would go as far to say that most have probably never even heard of NCAP.
If you asked most would likely think it was a bottle of Night Nurse.
Based on a sample of one, I can tell you that my sister in law bought her car because it had a "five-star safety rating". In fact I would go as far to say that most have probably never even heard of NCAP.
If you asked most would likely think it was a bottle of Night Nurse.
I doubt she'd have any idea what NCAP is, but the salesman/brochure showed her that one had a five star rating while the others she was considering didn't, so she dismissed them.
While I wouldn't buy a car purely because of a safety rating, if it came down to a choice of two that ticked all the boxes but one was 5 stars and the other 3 stars, it would be daft to pick the less safe option.
kambites said:
The problem really seems to come down to people treating the results of the test as dreadfully important without putting even the smallest amount of effort into understand what they mean.
But that's the whole point of developing standards for consumers. Most consumers won't understand CE marking, BSI, ISO, UN38.3 etc. But the standards body has a reputation that is recognised by consumers.And Renault are a brand that traditionally have done well at the NCAP tests. So yes, many Zoe owners are now disgruntled that Renault have removed equipment (active braking, head airbag) that has reduced the Euro NCAP of their car to a zero.
It's damaging to the Renault brand, and there may be the odd customer that was miss-sold based on the old rating.
What I don't quite get is that, in the Autocar article linked by the OP, a guy from Euro Ncap said that the inclusion of the previous Zoe's side-mounted airbag might have pushed the current model's rating up to one star, but it certainly wouldn’t be any better. If that is so, where did the other 4 stars from the 2013-16 Zoe go?
Lil_Red_GTV said:
What I don't quite get is that, in the Autocar article linked by the OP, a guy from Euro Ncap said that the inclusion of the previous Zoe's side-mounted airbag might have pushed the current model's rating up to one star, but it certainly wouldn’t be any better. If that is so, where did the other 4 stars from the 2013-16 Zoe go?
It was originally tested in 2013, since then the tests have become far more stringent, yet the ZOE has remained largely the same, so it stands to reason that a car tested 8 years ago won't perform as well in an up to date test were testing protocols are changed around every 2 years.My wifes 2012 Corsa is a 5 star car, however I'm confident if it was still in production and re tested now it would be a 0 star, oohh she is in a death trap now!!
Edited by HTP99 on Friday 10th December 10:14
I suppose what I am trying to understand is whether, side airbag design aside, the poor rating is primarily due to a lack of active safety tech (on the base model, noting that other models of Zoe do seem to come with plenty of acronyms) or whether there have been significant improvements in passive safety since 2013. I would find the latter slightly surprising, but maybe there have been and I am behind the times. Mind you, I still think of a driver's airbag as advanced safety tech.
Lil_Red_GTV said:
What I don't quite get is that, in the Autocar article linked by the OP, a guy from Euro Ncap said that the inclusion of the previous Zoe's side-mounted airbag might have pushed the current model's rating up to one star, but it certainly wouldn’t be any better. If that is so, where did the other 4 stars from the 2013-16 Zoe go?
Rear seat seem to be worse in new model in side impactI doubt the lack of lane assist would drop 4 stars. I remember when it was included in NCAP scoring most car just drop from 5 to 4
Edited by kurokawa on Friday 10th December 10:36
kurokawa said:
Lil_Red_GTV said:
What I don't quite get is that, in the Autocar article linked by the OP, a guy from Euro Ncap said that the inclusion of the previous Zoe's side-mounted airbag might have pushed the current model's rating up to one star, but it certainly wouldn’t be any better. If that is so, where did the other 4 stars from the 2013-16 Zoe go?
Rear seat seem to be worse in new model in side impactI doubt the lack of lane assist would drop 4 stars. I remember when it was included in NCAP scoring most car just drop from 5 to 4
Edited by kurokawa on Friday 10th December 10:36
Lil_Red_GTV said:
I suppose what I am trying to understand is whether, side airbag design aside, the poor rating is primarily due to a lack of active safety tech (on the base model, noting that other models of Zoe do seem to come with plenty of acronyms) or whether there have been significant improvements in passive safety since 2013. I would find the latter slightly surprising, but maybe there have been and I am behind the times. Mind you, I still think of a driver's airbag as advanced safety tech.
Comparing old and new Euroncap Zoe reports, new one has been marked down in every single category, adult occupant, child occupant, pedestrian, safety assist, so standards across the board were raised.Testing standards are getting more stringent overtime.
The IIHS recently changed their side impact test and tested it on small SUV’s (small in the USA at any rate). Only 1 managed to maintain its good rating.
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/small-suvs-strugg...
They justify these new tests by saying new protocols are evolving to better reflect real world crash data, which are also constantly evolving as vehicles and road conditions change.
The IIHS recently changed their side impact test and tested it on small SUV’s (small in the USA at any rate). Only 1 managed to maintain its good rating.
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/small-suvs-strugg...
They justify these new tests by saying new protocols are evolving to better reflect real world crash data, which are also constantly evolving as vehicles and road conditions change.
Edited by wyson on Friday 10th December 10:56
Not that it really matters to me. I'm interested in the subject because I had a 2016 Zoe, but if I'm being honest, the reason I wouldn't get a new one is that (a) I can't afford it, and (b) I don't find the facelifted styling as cohesive as before.
Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
Lil_Red_GTV said:
Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
That's great, until you have a family and safety sort of creeps up the priority list.If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
Lil_Red_GTV said:
Not that it really matters to me. I'm interested in the subject because I had a 2016 Zoe, but if I'm being honest, the reason I wouldn't get a new one is that (a) I can't afford it, and (b) I don't find the facelifted styling as cohesive as before.
Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
-Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M1E6ENeUso
Lil_Red_GTV said:
Not that it really matters to me. I'm interested in the subject because I had a 2016 Zoe, but if I'm being honest, the reason I wouldn't get a new one is that (a) I can't afford it, and (b) I don't find the facelifted styling as cohesive as before.
Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
Are you just driving yourself or regularly ferrying kids etc?Ultimately looks are more important than safety to me, which is a pretty shocking statement when I write it down, but is the honest truth. I'll pick the best looking car over the safest one every time (assuming one car is not both).
If the Renault 5 EV gets zero stars but looks like the concept I will be selling my granny to buy one anyway.
If the latter then I'd want to understand why it got such a poor rating personally.
kurokawa said:
Rear seat seem to be worse in new model in side impact
One of the big changes between the two tests was the child dummies in the back went from smaller ones cocooned in big protective seats with 5-point harnesses (one rear-facing), to bigger kids on boosters (one high back, one low cushion) using the 3-point belts. It's a better test of the safety systems for rear occupants.The side pole test also changed slightly in 2015, the car hits it at an angle now.
Easy to say that it's all about electronic aids now, but the core crash testing keeps getting refined too.
I can admit that AEB prevented a crash for me, and would probably have prevented a motorway crash I had a decade ago. It's been a joke that Renault didn't have it on the launch ZE50s, then did for a bit, then removed it again.
Edited by sjg on Friday 10th December 11:28
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