In flames: Paris takes 149 electric buses off the road

[Evanivitch]

bigothunter said:

A trolleybus is not a BEV. A hybrid* trolleybus makes use of batteries where its network can't.

* My terminology which some don't like...

It's a terminology that is not used or accepted by anyone but yourself.

[bigothunter]

Evanivitch said:

It's a terminology that is not used or accepted by anyone but yourself.

[bigothunter]

Evanivitch said:

Obviously there's a difference in the storage capacity needed, but that doesn't make necessarily mitigate the risk of a battery fire.

Even mobile phones catch fire. But the results don't tend to be as life threatening as an EV bus fire.

[Evanivitch]

bigothunter said:

Evanivitch said:

Obviously there's a difference in the storage capacity needed, but that doesn't make necessarily mitigate the risk of a battery fire.

Even mobile phones catch fire. But the results don't tend to be as life threatening as an EV bus fire.

You need to apply considerable context before you make that statement.

A phone battery fire on a plane or next to a sleeping person is incredibly dangerous.

A bus battery fire on the street can be quickly evacuated and largely contained. A bus fire in a depot would already have safety measures in place.

[bigothunter]

Evanivitch said:

A phone battery fire on a plane or next to a sleeping person is incredibly dangerous.

I have a creeping suspicion that British Airways have robust safety procedures for mobile phone fires.

Evanivitch said:

A bus battery fire on the street can be quickly evacuated and largely contained. A bus fire in a depot would already have safety measures in place.

Fortunately passengers were absent from the EV bus fires in Paris and London. In both cases, buses were allowed to burn rather than being largely contained.

Safety measure didn't stop three EV bus depots in Germany, from burning down.

[Evanivitch]

bigothunter said:

Evanivitch said:

A phone battery fire on a plane or next to a sleeping person is incredibly dangerous.

I have a creeping suspicion that British Airways have robust safety procedures for mobile phone fires.

They don't. They rely on the standards set about by IATA to ensure that the risk of a fire occuring is minimised in the first place. Should a fire occur on a plane it's an incredibly dangerous situation.

bigothunter said:

Evanivitch said:

A bus battery fire on the street can be quickly evacuated and largely contained. A bus fire in a depot would already have safety measures in place.

Fortunately passengers were absent from the EV bus fires in Paris and London. In both cases, buses were allowed to burn rather than being largely contained.

Safety measure didn't stop three EV bus depots in Germany, from burning down.

I'm pretty sure neither bus was completely devoid of any passengers, or a driver, at the time the fire was initiated. Being allowed to burn without causing wider harm is being contained


Again, burning down a depot isn't a safety issue provided no harm occurs to people.

You don't seem familiar with the basic language of safety.

[bigothunter]

Evanivitch said:

You don't seem familiar with the basic language of safety.

You don't seem familiar with common sense.

[Evanivitch]

bigothunter said:

Evanivitch said:

You don't seem familiar with the basic language of safety.

You don't seem familiar with common sense.

Fortunately I've never had to rely on "common sense" when providing a safety case, I stick to standards, regulations and directives.

[bigothunter]

Evanivitch said:

Fortunately I've never had to rely on "common sense" when providing a safety case, I stick to standards, regulations and directives.

Such an illuminating remark

[manracer]

The town near where I live are currently building a new bus depot and will be the first in the UK to have a full fleet of BEV buses only - cant wait to see how it all unfolds.

[Whats in a name]

manracer said:

The town near where I live are currently building a new bus depot and will be the first in the UK to have a full fleet of BEV buses only - cant wait to see how it all unfolds.

It isn’t the first by any stretch Waterloo bus depot in London has been completely EV for quite a few years now.

[Evanivitch]

Whats in a name said:

manracer said:

The town near where I live are currently building a new bus depot and will be the first in the UK to have a full fleet of BEV buses only - cant wait to see how it all unfolds.

It isn’t the first by any stretch Waterloo bus depot in London has been completely EV for quite a few years now.

Yep, in 2016. Based on Chinese BYD busses, using 348kWh LFP battery chemistry.

[ZesPak]

bigothunter said:

ZesPak said:

So the alternative to an EV bus is an EV bus that can charge while it's driving?
ok...

What makes you believe trolleybuses need batteries for motive power?

Maybe not all trolleybusses, but the Skoda 32 Tr you posted as an "alternative" definitely does.

[bigothunter]

ZesPak said:

bigothunter said:

ZesPak said:

So the alternative to an EV bus is an EV bus that can charge while it's driving?
ok...

What makes you believe trolleybuses need batteries for motive power?

Maybe not all trolleybusses, but the Skoda 32 Tr you posted as an "alternative" definitely does.

Fair comment even though I said 'need' not 'have'...

[ZesPak]

bigothunter said:

ZesPak said:

bigothunter said:

ZesPak said:

So the alternative to an EV bus is an EV bus that can charge while it's driving?
ok...

What makes you believe trolleybuses need batteries for motive power?

Maybe not all trolleybusses, but the Skoda 32 Tr you posted as an "alternative" definitely does.

Fair comment even though I said 'need' not 'have'...

And I never opposed that.

But if you want to dig your hole a bit further, show me one trolleybus designed in the past ten years that doesn't need batteries.
If you can't figure out why that would be a stupid design, I can attempt to explain it.

[bigothunter]

ZesPak said:

But if you want to dig your hole a bit further, show me one trolleybus designed in the past ten years that doesn't need batteries.
If you can't figure out why that would be a stupid design, I can attempt to explain it.

Trolleybuses are technically different to Battery Electric buses. Their primary energy source is from overhead cables.

Isn't that obvious to you?

[Oilchange]

GT9 said:

Firstly, you've quoted Jacko for something J_Wood said.

Secondly, the bendy buses he was referencing to date back nearly 20 years...what do you think they are propelled by?

Do you think maybe you should take a break from the anti-EV stuff, it seems it's all getting bit much for you.

Apologies if I misquoted.
My comment wasn't taking aim at EVs in any way just that I wanted to show there might be another, perfectly valid, reason for the fires.

[ZesPak]

bigothunter said:

Trolleybuses are technically different to Battery Electric buses. Their primary energy source is from overhead cables.

Isn't that obvious to you?

It's a BEV, with the extra option to be charged by overhead cables.

[Vasco]

ZesPak said:

bigothunter said:

Trolleybuses are technically different to Battery Electric buses. Their primary energy source is from overhead cables.

Isn't that obvious to you?

It's a BEV, with the extra option to be charged by overhead cables.

No, it's powered via the overhead cables. It can also run, for shorter distances, off an onboard battery.

[manracer]

Evanivitch said:

Whats in a name said:

manracer said:

The town near where I live are currently building a new bus depot and will be the first in the UK to have a full fleet of BEV buses only - cant wait to see how it all unfolds.

It isn’t the first by any stretch Waterloo bus depot in London has been completely EV for quite a few years now.

Yep, in 2016. Based on Chinese BYD busses, using 348kWh LFP battery chemistry.

Maybe it's the wording they used, Waterloo isn't a town. I don't know and I can't find the article now. Either way, I won't be using any bus regardless of its propulsion.