2023 Prius (Sadly not coming here!)

[Ardennes92]

Flumpo said:

Silvanus said:

VS02 said:

AmitG said:

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

I think that Mazda, Suzuki and Subaru will survive through their tech partnerships with Toyota, although I can also see Subaru also leaving.

Mitsubishi have already gone. And I miss Daihatsu

Honda I think they could be being saved with the new Civic and Jazz, I have seen quite a few already, maybe even the HRV and the next gen CRV too (the CRV especially). Honda-e needs improved range to sell more!


Mazda is on a roll, their cars are highly rated and they are increasing profit margins by having the new Mazda2/Demio as a cheaper rebadged Yaris, good move on their part with the way small car market is going.

Suzuki now just sell rebadged stuff although I am interested to see what the next generation Swift will look like (could sell a few if they play their cards right)

Subaru are essentially dead already, they sell the XV (hopeless), Forester (hopeless outdated), Outback (irrelevant in this decade with the powertrains offered), and Solterra (rebadged BZ4x, stillborn with the rubbish EV range, quality issues and price)


I’m surprised Mitsubishi didn’t at least stay to bring the new Outlander PHEV to the UK. With the way the last one sold, I could have thought they would have been kept afloat.

Mazda cars have been highly rated for a good number of years but it didn't turn into sales. I think the people who do buy Mazdas, buy them because they are a little bit different to the norm. Selling rebadged Toyotas is a bit of a gamble. I've come close to buying a Mazda2 a few times but wouldn't buy a Mazda badged Yaris.

Suzuki seem very lost too, not quite sure where they are trying to position themselves and their range isn't great.

Mitsubishi was a bit of a surprise, the Outlander PHEV, was a good seller but it unfortunately didn't perform as well in the real world as on paper. Their pickup sales were hammered by Ford and VW and the Shogun was massively outdated.

Honda I think have been hit the hardest by the Korean/MG assault. Honda massively underestimated them and their higher pricing and bland range pushed loyal customers away.

I actually thought Subaru would disappear first, even Ssangyong sell more cars.

Be interesting to see how Mazda goes as they seem to have hit a bit of a crossroads. Their models have been priced against Ford, Vauxhall and the other standard brands. But if you sit in one the quality or at least perception of quality has made them feel like they are a step above but cheaper than Volvo or bmw, Audi.

Mazda is now pushing its prices a lot closer to the premium brands. The cx-60 is about £20k cheaper than an equivalent spec premium hybrid. But a hell of a lot more than the equivalent non premium brands.

Will current mazda customers be willing to pay more, who knows. But they need a better full ev than the current one. I’m hoping Mazda do well, we need choice other than vag.

The new civic is interesting, the reviews seem good.

Maybe Mazda aren’t looking at existing owners if they are trying to move up; CX-60 is a phev so what equivalent non premium alternatives are there? Agree that more lower priced or better ranged BEV choices are required

[AmitG]

5s Alive said:

But aargh, more diamond cut alloys that Scottish winters eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

They should really offer aero wheels and even spats as an option. That would be pretty cool, even if it doesn't improve mpg all that much.

[C G]

AmitG said:

Silvanus said:

I'm actually wondering which Japanese brand will be next to exit the UK? Toyota and Nissan look fairly safe but not the others.

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

Not sure about that. The previous models were built in the UK and were available with a variety of engines and body styles. The latest one is obviously designed for the American market and imported here from Japan. I actually quite like the car but can't see them selling many.

[Flumpo]

C G said:

AmitG said:

Silvanus said:

I'm actually wondering which Japanese brand will be next to exit the UK? Toyota and Nissan look fairly safe but not the others.

I would not be surprised if Honda exit Europe this decade, possibly even before Euro 7 comes in (I think it's 2025?). Their European sales have been low for ages, although the new Civic suggests that they are starting to take it more seriously.

Not sure about that. The previous models were built in the UK and were available with a variety of engines and body styles. The latest one is obviously designed for the American market and imported here from Japan. I actually quite like the car but can't see them selling many.

I think the the problem Honda has in terms of selling to the average family hatch buyer, is the premium offerings.

Not sure how finance from Honda themselves works out, but on identical terms below, I can guess where the average buyer puts their monthlies:

[Auslander]

The Civic is in a bit of a no-man's land, as it's a foot longer than the A-class.

Additionally, the cars you used are the 2.0 hybrids, so it's not in any way a competitor for the A180.

Honda don't seem to be importing the smaller engines and non-hybrids, though.

[Flumpo]

Auslander said:

The Civic is in a bit of a no-man's land, as it's a foot longer than the A-class.

Additionally, the cars you used are the 2.0 hybrids, so it's not in any way a competitor for the A180.

Honda don't seem to be importing the smaller engines and non-hybrids, though.

Forget the engines, Honda only does 1 engine in the civic. The discussion was will the new civic sell a lot or will honda leave the uk if sales flop. The average buyer in this segment is looking at the monthlies. Honda has a major problem with its competition. I suspect this will be the last civic in the uk as for the average buyer the a class is cheaper.

Honda will be down to it’s suvs. Although it doesn’t matter anyway as talk is the a class is getting scrapped anyway.

Dimensions are not that far off either

Edited by Flumpo on Sunday 20th November 20:02

[Silvanus]

I'm not sure Honda buyers are moving into low spec Mercs (some may be), they are buying Korean, MG and Dacia. These brands are thriving whilst Honda and some other Japanese brands are losing big chunks of market share. Many are attracted by the long warranties, large car ranges, lower prices and in Dacias case, simplicity.

[Flumpo]

Silvanus said:

I'm not sure Honda buyers are moving into low spec Mercs (some may be), they are buying Korean, MG and Dacia. These brands are thriving whilst Honda and some other Japanese brands are losing big chunks of market share. Many are attracted by the long warranties, large car ranges, lower prices and in Dacias case, simplicity.

That’s part of the question and problem for Honda, who exactly is buying civics?

[Silvanus]

Flumpo said:

Silvanus said:

I'm not sure Honda buyers are moving into low spec Mercs (some may be), they are buying Korean, MG and Dacia. These brands are thriving whilst Honda and some other Japanese brands are losing big chunks of market share. Many are attracted by the long warranties, large car ranges, lower prices and in Dacias case, simplicity.

That’s part of the question and problem for Honda, who exactly is buying civics?

I think Honda admitted they were going to shrink their European operations, particularly the UK. They got Europe wrong but are now happy with the new direction. I just can't find the article.

[Flumpo]

Silvanus said:

Flumpo said:

Silvanus said:

I'm not sure Honda buyers are moving into low spec Mercs (some may be), they are buying Korean, MG and Dacia. These brands are thriving whilst Honda and some other Japanese brands are losing big chunks of market share. Many are attracted by the long warranties, large car ranges, lower prices and in Dacias case, simplicity.

That’s part of the question and problem for Honda, who exactly is buying civics?

I think Honda admitted they were going to shrink their European operations, particularly the UK. They got Europe wrong but are now happy with the new direction. I just can't find the article.

Makes sense, I would imagine their suv range sells well, keep seeing an advert for what looks like a new one too.

[Silvanus]

Flumpo said:

Silvanus said:

Flumpo said:

Silvanus said:

I'm not sure Honda buyers are moving into low spec Mercs (some may be), they are buying Korean, MG and Dacia. These brands are thriving whilst Honda and some other Japanese brands are losing big chunks of market share. Many are attracted by the long warranties, large car ranges, lower prices and in Dacias case, simplicity.

That’s part of the question and problem for Honda, who exactly is buying civics?

I think Honda admitted they were going to shrink their European operations, particularly the UK. They got Europe wrong but are now happy with the new direction. I just can't find the article.

Makes sense, I would imagine their suv range sells well, keep seeing an advert for what looks like a new one too.

their overall UK sales are currently still falling, not sure on individual models though

[phil4]

Years ago I had a prius, one of the 2nd Gen.

It was really good at being efficient, and wasn't plugin. At the time I really wanted a BEV, but most were really limits range, or really expensive. Neither worked for me.

I can see how people wanting a halfway house might want them, if you can't/won't get a Tesla, and do long distances more than once in a blue moon, they provide a nice way of getting better fuel economy. And that new one, really does look very good indeed.

But I can see the logic, everyone seems desperate for an SUV, so no matter how good it looked, or what efficiency it offered, no one would buy it. Oddly I don't think it'd batter even if it was a BEV, everyone wants an SUV in the UK.

[Lil_Red_GTV]

Resurrecting this thread because it is now being reported that Toyota has had a change of heart. They may be bringing the new Prius to the UK next year after all.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota...

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/toyota/p...

Great news if true, as I think it looks stunning. First mainstream new car in years that is actually good-looking.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Lil_Red_GTV said:

Resurrecting this thread because it is now being reported that Toyota has had a change of heart. They may be bringing the new Prius to the UK next year after all.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota...

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/toyota/p...

Great news if true, as I think it looks stunning. First mainstream new car in years that is actually good-looking.

Yeah. I need to get the title changed to (Happily, coming here!).

When I was out in the states a while back I saw quite a few and they look really good. The Prime version would almost certainly be a very useful car for very many people.

[AmitG]

Agree this is great news.

I wonder if they will bring the self-charging version over here as a cheaper option. That would be awesome.

[C G]

Nice looking car but can't imagine they'll sell many.

Over £40k so will attract the extra road tax but without the premium brand bragging rights.

[TheDeuce]

Am I missing something obvious about this car? It's clearly a vast improvement for a Prius but it's still a Prius. How exactly is it desirable?

Will 'car people' really lust after this? Surely it will still be bought by people that just want it for entirely practical reasons..

Also as said above, it misses out on some tax savings one way or the other. Too expensive, not zero emissions..

[Snow and Rocks]

TheDeuce said:

Am I missing something obvious about this car? It's clearly a vast improvement for a Prius but it's still a Prius. How exactly is it desirable?

Will 'car people' really lust after this? Surely it will still be bought by people that just want it for entirely practical reasons..

Also as said above, it misses out on some tax savings one way or the other. Too expensive, not zero emissions..

Yep, it's one of the best looking "normal" cars to be launched in years. It promises to be pretty decent to drive.

It's also a much more flexible solution than a pure EV with day to day driving mostly covered with home charging but with a 75mpg/650 mile range for low cost no hassle longer trips (we have a family Model Y before you jump down my throat).

• Tesla ~14p a mile on supercharger

Prius <10p a mile on unleaded

Add in Toyota reliability and 10 year warranty and it's a pretty decent ownership proposition.

[TheDeuce]

Snow and Rocks said:

TheDeuce said:

Am I missing something obvious about this car? It's clearly a vast improvement for a Prius but it's still a Prius. How exactly is it desirable?

Will 'car people' really lust after this? Surely it will still be bought by people that just want it for entirely practical reasons..

Also as said above, it misses out on some tax savings one way or the other. Too expensive, not zero emissions..

Yep, it's one of the best looking "normal" cars to be launched in years. It promises to be pretty decent to drive.

It's also a much more flexible solution than a pure EV with day to day driving mostly covered with home charging but with a 75mpg/650 mile range for low cost no hassle longer trips (we have a family Model Y before you jump down my throat).

• Tesla ~14p a mile on supercharger

Prius <10p a mile on unleaded

Add in Toyota reliability and 10 year warranty and it's a pretty decent ownership proposition.

Yes that's true for those that can't charge at home or exceed their BEV range often enough to care about the hassle/cost. But straight away that's a fairly small % of people. For most people at this price point a BEV is a far cheaper to run, faster, simpler, option. It's the price point that's throwing me I think. For £40k you can buy a BEV these days.

I can totally see why a high mileage user might be excited about this new Prius but I can't see how it's in any way a desirable car beyond reasons of practicality.

[Snow and Rocks]

The plug in range part of the Prius will surely cost roughly the same as a pure EV for most day to day running around unless I'm missing something? You then have cheaper than supercharger rates for long trips without the faff/planning needed with a pure EV. Given the continued public concern about EV range I think it could do pretty well if Toyota UK market it properly.

It's also much better looking and almost certainly better built than anything Tesla make.

It sounds ideal to me and I could easily see it replacing our Model Y - the only compromise if you can call it that is the need for a fixed price ~£300 a year service but even that is likely to be more than cancelled out by the 10 year warranty and Toyota reliability.