Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
Discombobulate said:
There are lots of reasons why people love cars - from aesthetics and engineering, to smell, feel and "soul" - but most of us simply love driving. Anything, from a tractor to a 2.7 911 RS. And it is this love that means it is perfectly possible to be an EV and an ICE enthusiast. I am.
Isn't EV enthusiast an oxymoron? 
Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
bigothunter said:
Isn't EV enthusiast an oxymoron?
Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
It's not a binary choice.Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
I am a petrolhead but my daily driver is a Tesla (shock horror
) and there are many things about it to satisfy the enthusiast.I'm also lucky to have a kit car in the garage which is hot, noisey and no NVH which will also satisfy the enthusiast.
In the right cirucmstances both are good cars (and in the wrong siutation both will be terrible)
bigothunter said:
Isn't EV enthusiast an oxymoron?
Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
Have you read the article? Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
"I wanted to get something fast I could take to the track," he said, "but I just couldn't get over the idea I'd be burning a bunch of fossil fuel when other options are available."
"Model S with the Raven powertrain. Of that car, Ryan told us he "loved launching it—it's just so freakin' fun," and it got him addicted to speed."
"But using an EV as a daily driver? "I'll never go back. After driving the Model 3, I like the simplicity, ease of use, and low maintenance."
"he said it's all EVs from this point on. "It's great to have a nice smooth car with virtually no maintenance," he pointed out. "To not spend all week working on a car, getting it ready to go to the track—that's what interested me most about it."
Rewarding?
SWoll said:
Have you read the article?
"I wanted to get something fast I could take to the track," he said, "but I just couldn't get over the idea I'd be burning a bunch of fossil fuel when other options are available."
"Model S with the Raven powertrain. Of that car, Ryan told us he "loved launching it—it's just so freakin' fun," and it got him addicted to speed."
"But using an EV as a daily driver? "I'll never go back. After driving the Model 3, I like the simplicity, ease of use, and low maintenance."
"he said it's all EVs from this point on. "It's great to have a nice smooth car with virtually no maintenance," he pointed out. "To not spend all week working on a car, getting it ready to go to the track—that's what interested me most about it."
Rewarding?
Maybe rewarding was too strong..."I wanted to get something fast I could take to the track," he said, "but I just couldn't get over the idea I'd be burning a bunch of fossil fuel when other options are available."
"Model S with the Raven powertrain. Of that car, Ryan told us he "loved launching it—it's just so freakin' fun," and it got him addicted to speed."
"But using an EV as a daily driver? "I'll never go back. After driving the Model 3, I like the simplicity, ease of use, and low maintenance."
"he said it's all EVs from this point on. "It's great to have a nice smooth car with virtually no maintenance," he pointed out. "To not spend all week working on a car, getting it ready to go to the track—that's what interested me most about it."
Rewarding?
When circumstances suit, I will run an EV as a daily driver. But I can't imagine ever being enthusiastic about it.
DonkeyApple said:
Very kind, but I'm ok. I should also warn against posting it in PH. When I posted an image of a gentleman who really liked his old Range Rover during the height of the global financial crisis, I received a load of abuse from a PH mod about working in financial services and a ban.
LOL. I also got a ban years ago for posting that exact same pic. Although I’d “shopped” Chris Harris’ head onto it, much to the chagrin of PH at the time as Harris was a staffer back then. 
SWoll said:
bigothunter said:
Isn't EV enthusiast an oxymoron?
Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
Have you read the article? Regardless, some find them rewarding:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/are-electric-c...
"I wanted to get something fast I could take to the track," he said, "but I just couldn't get over the idea I'd be burning a bunch of fossil fuel when other options are available."
"Model S with the Raven powertrain. Of that car, Ryan told us he "loved launching it—it's just so freakin' fun," and it got him addicted to speed."
"But using an EV as a daily driver? "I'll never go back. After driving the Model 3, I like the simplicity, ease of use, and low maintenance."
"he said it's all EVs from this point on. "It's great to have a nice smooth car with virtually no maintenance," he pointed out. "To not spend all week working on a car, getting it ready to go to the track—that's what interested me most about it."
Rewarding?
For the record I sincerely wish people on here would refrain from using ‘folk/folks’ to denote ‘people’. We are people on this island of ours, not ‘folk’. We haven’t yet been entirely subsumed and consumed by Netflix and Prime hopefully.
People. Not folk.
bigothunter said:
ZedLeg said:
bigothunter said:
Isn't EV enthusiast an oxymoron?
Not really, I find future facing tech fascinating and like it or not electric motors are the future for mass transport.Superior - Yes
Soulless - Yes
Given that 95% (number plucked from the air, obvs) are running round in 1.5 or 2.0 4 cylinder turbo diesels lumps that just exude soul, I don't see most people will actual care.
bigothunter said:
Superior - Yes
Soulless - Yes
The thing is, "soulless" in this context is simply another way of saying "I don't like it". EVs have exactly as much "soul" as ICE cars - none because it doesn't exist. "Soul" is a word which we, as enthusiasts, all use to justify our our irrational love of certain things. Soulless - Yes
Don't get me wrong, whilst I value and admire EVs as a means of transport, I have little interesting in them as an enthusiast. However I know that's entirely because of something in my mind, not something inherent to the cars themselves. I also find the huge majority of modern turbocharged engines utterly "soulless" but I don't think there's anything objectively wrong with them, I just don't personally like them. Given that in the short term at least, EVs are going to be replacing primarily horrible four-pot turbo petrols and diesels, I struggle to see any real downside to it at an emotional level.
Edited by kambites on Friday 9th June 10:01
SWoll said:
Just to clarify, would you consider an iPace a Jaguar, or a Taycan a Porsche? Or is it just where the original drivetrain has been swapped out?
I would not consider an E-Type with a battery to be an E-Type any more, or the same with a Ferrari.An iPace is a Jaguar same as the S Type was.
NDA said:
SWoll said:
Just to clarify, would you consider an iPace a Jaguar, or a Taycan a Porsche? Or is it just where the original drivetrain has been swapped out?
I would not consider an E-Type with a battery to be an E-Type any more, or the same with a Ferrari.An iPace is a Jaguar same as the S Type was.
How about my Honda Engined Exige S1. No longer a Lotus once the K series removed?
Nomme de Plum said:
I'm assuming you would apply that logic to any ICE car that had its engine swopped out for something different which was fairly common amongst enthusiasts a few years ago.
How about my Honda Engined Exige S1. No longer a Lotus once the K series removed?
As always with PH, it's like being in a fecking court of law. How about my Honda Engined Exige S1. No longer a Lotus once the K series removed?
Hopefully, if you take my comment in broad terms, you might see that removing the engine from classic cars that were renowned for their engines, strip away the prized character of that car.
For example, again, take a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine out to put a battery in its place, makes it an EV rather than the Ferrari it once was. Putting an E-Type body on an EV doesn't really make it an E-Type.
But if you want to test this 'logic' on every model of car, go ahead. It's not really the point I was making.
My point was that if you have a ferrari sans engine, I'd rather see someone out enjoying it with EV drive than it sitting on axle stands in a lock up somewhere.
No one suggested that we should be pulling working engines out of classic cars to convert but let's remember that not all classics are actually good cars and a lot of what we call character or soul is us just excusing faults because we like the car in general.
No one suggested that we should be pulling working engines out of classic cars to convert but let's remember that not all classics are actually good cars and a lot of what we call character or soul is us just excusing faults because we like the car in general.
NDA said:
Nomme de Plum said:
I'm assuming you would apply that logic to any ICE car that had its engine swopped out for something different which was fairly common amongst enthusiasts a few years ago.
How about my Honda Engined Exige S1. No longer a Lotus once the K series removed?
As always with PH, it's like being in a fecking court of law. How about my Honda Engined Exige S1. No longer a Lotus once the K series removed?
Hopefully, if you take my comment in broad terms, you might see that removing the engine from classic cars that were renowned for their engines, strip away the prized character of that car.
For example, again, take a 12 cylinder Ferrari engine out to put a battery in its place, makes it an EV rather than the Ferrari it once was. Putting an E-Type body on an EV doesn't really make it an E-Type.
But if you want to test this 'logic' on every model of car, go ahead. It's not really the point I was making.
I cannot comment on an E Type conversion but the Ferrari conversion entails the removal of the engine, gearbox and all associated components including the fuel tank. Circa 450kg worth if I recall correctly. so it would be incorrect to say it's and EV with a Ferrari body added.
I remember receiving some criticism when I removed the K series engine and replaced with a heavier Type R engine. At the end of the day it was my car to do as I saw fit and I feel that other owners can do as they please. The Testarossa was very unwanted decades ago and were relatively inexpensive to buy.
ZedLeg said:
My point was that if you have a ferrari sans engine, I'd rather see someone out enjoying it with EV drive than it sitting on axle stands in a lock up somewhere.
No one suggested that we should be pulling working engines out of classic cars to convert but let's remember that not all classics are actually good cars and a lot of what we call character or soul is us just excusing faults because we like the car in general.
I agree I would much rather see the car being driven on the road than locked up in a garage somewhere because they were notoriously difficult to drive with a very heavy clutch and expensive to maintain. No one suggested that we should be pulling working engines out of classic cars to convert but let's remember that not all classics are actually good cars and a lot of what we call character or soul is us just excusing faults because we like the car in general.
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