Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
AstonZagato said:
Charge Cars’ Electric Mustang is now available for reservation at a starting price of just $460,000 USD. But if Ferrari took a petrol engine out of an old Ferrari and put and electric motor in, would that make it a Ferrari? 
I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
DonkeyApple said:
But if Ferrari took a petrol engine out of an old Ferrari and put and electric motor in, would that make it a Ferrari?
I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
I can see an argument if the classic car concerned was one of only a handful left in existence but the Testarossa was produced in such numbers that there was a glut and some remained unsold, hence their used value plumeted. I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
Other such cars like the DeTomaso were to be had for very little money also. My neighbour picked one up for £15K.
Swopping out engines by enthusiasts was fairly common place in the 70s. Ford Anglias, Austin A40s and Morris (Moggie) 1000s all got the big engine treatment.
At the end of the day the owner can do as they see fit with their car.
For those wedded to their ICE they have a couple of decades before they maybe persuaded into an EV.
I've probably mentioned it before but in my opinion the real value with an old VIN is that you get old regs to go with it so you can do whatever you want without being hamstrung by whatever emissions malarky we need to put up with these days. So full bore unrestrained ICE like god meant it. But people can of course do whatever they see fit.
bigothunter said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Swopping out engines by enthusiasts was fairly common place in the 70s. Ford Anglias, Austin A40s and Morris (Moggie) 1000s all got the big engine treatment.
Twin Cams and 1760 Pushrods are great as well 
My S1 Elan which i rebuilt from a write off had a great little twin cam engine but that was a bit later.
Vipers said:
Anyone with a passing understanding of statistics realised that the Musk tweet on "10x safer" ignored the fact that AP was mainly employed on motorways - which are the safest roads. He was comparing accident stats for mainly motorways with all road accidents. Sophistry.Vipers said:
The article is fairly meaningless because there is no indication as to whether or not the accidents would have happened if the car was not using autopilot or how many accidents where avoided by autopilot.This is nothing but sensational journalism.
When you’ve nearly been rear ended because you dared to cross a ley line or drive under a bridge while on FSD, or when you’ve been thrown across to the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic because you’ve driven over bus stop markings you can understand how Teslas may have had a few more accidents than average.
I think a big part of the FSD / Autopilot problem is dangerously similar to my argument against those who struggle with the whole concept of EVs and charging: you can never underestimate how stupid the general public are.
My basis for this?
Follow some of the Tesla-specific Sub-Reddits, wherein you'll get people asking what sort of compensation they can expect from Tesla because their car clipped a kerb whilst it was "driving itself". Attached is a video, taken from the Tesla dashcam, showing a car trying to navigate a 90° corner which narrows with kerbs to either side. You can pre-empt exactly what will happen, and anyone paying attention would have taken manual control much sooner. But alas, this would require them to be able to think for themselves.
You simply can't engineer-out stupid, left for long enough the problem takes care of itself.
Granted, FSD / AP is not great, in my experience Tesla is slightly better than other modern cars I've driven which have been equipped with automatic cruise and lane-keep assist. But then there's not much else to it, especially once you're on the motorway.
My basis for this?
Follow some of the Tesla-specific Sub-Reddits, wherein you'll get people asking what sort of compensation they can expect from Tesla because their car clipped a kerb whilst it was "driving itself". Attached is a video, taken from the Tesla dashcam, showing a car trying to navigate a 90° corner which narrows with kerbs to either side. You can pre-empt exactly what will happen, and anyone paying attention would have taken manual control much sooner. But alas, this would require them to be able to think for themselves.
You simply can't engineer-out stupid, left for long enough the problem takes care of itself.
Granted, FSD / AP is not great, in my experience Tesla is slightly better than other modern cars I've driven which have been equipped with automatic cruise and lane-keep assist. But then there's not much else to it, especially once you're on the motorway.
C.A.R. said:
I think a big part of the FSD / Autopilot problem is dangerously similar to my argument against those who struggle with the whole concept of EVs and charging: you can never underestimate how stupid the general public are.
My basis for this?
Follow some of the Tesla-specific Sub-Reddits, wherein you'll get people asking what sort of compensation they can expect from Tesla because their car clipped a kerb whilst it was "driving itself". Attached is a video, taken from the Tesla dashcam, showing a car trying to navigate a 90° corner which narrows with kerbs to either side. You can pre-empt exactly what will happen, and anyone paying attention would have taken manual control much sooner. But alas, this would require them to be able to think for themselves.
You simply can't engineer-out stupid, left for long enough the problem takes care of itself.
Granted, FSD / AP is not great, in my experience Tesla is slightly better than other modern cars I've driven which have been equipped with automatic cruise and lane-keep assist. But then there's not much else to it, especially once you're on the motorway.
With 17 fatalities in the US attributed to Tesla Autopilot since 2019, will be interesting to see how Elon Musk fares in federal court My basis for this?
Follow some of the Tesla-specific Sub-Reddits, wherein you'll get people asking what sort of compensation they can expect from Tesla because their car clipped a kerb whilst it was "driving itself". Attached is a video, taken from the Tesla dashcam, showing a car trying to navigate a 90° corner which narrows with kerbs to either side. You can pre-empt exactly what will happen, and anyone paying attention would have taken manual control much sooner. But alas, this would require them to be able to think for themselves.
You simply can't engineer-out stupid, left for long enough the problem takes care of itself.
Granted, FSD / AP is not great, in my experience Tesla is slightly better than other modern cars I've driven which have been equipped with automatic cruise and lane-keep assist. But then there's not much else to it, especially once you're on the motorway.
Gary C said:
If CO2 (and pollution in general) wasn't an issue, then we would still be burning coal and using oil. EV's wouldn't have a look in.
.We are still burning coal and using oil and gas. A coal power station was fired up yesterday.
Around half of our electrify is from gas. We are going to need it for decades for when the wind drops.
andy43 said:
When you’ve nearly been rear ended because you dared to cross a ley line or drive under a bridge while on FSD, or when you’ve been thrown across to the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic because you’ve driven over bus stop markings you can understand how Teslas may have had a few more accidents than average.
I have driven 26k miles in my model Y in the last 8.5 months, I use Autopilot at every opportunity, nothing like this has ever happened and Teslas don't have higher crash rates so your post is nonsense.bigothunter said:
With 17 fatalities in the US attributed to Tesla Autopilot since 2019, will be interesting to see how Elon Musk fares in federal court
They are not attributed to Tesla Autopilot, they are while using Autopilot which is not the same thing at all, there is no evidence in the article that Autopilot caused the accident.DonkeyApple said:
But if Ferrari took a petrol engine out of an old Ferrari and put and electric motor in, would that make it a Ferrari?
I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
I want a electrify FD3S, the purist can fight me I can see the argument for saying certain petrol engines were so great that no electric motor could really add but only detract from that aspect but changing the engine doesn't change what the whole thing is.
It's just modding.
The high reving engine is one of the attraction for me, but it is the overall package that draw me to that car, and if electrification removal many of the flaws it is a sacrifice i am willing to pay
kurokawa said:
I want a electrify FD3S, the purist can fight me
The high reving engine is one of the attraction for me, but it is the overall package that draw me to that car, and if electrification removal many of the flaws it is a sacrifice i am willing to pay
You'd just be swapping one rotary engine for another that doesn't rush to bork itself? The high reving engine is one of the attraction for me, but it is the overall package that draw me to that car, and if electrification removal many of the flaws it is a sacrifice i am willing to pay
Pooh said:
Vipers said:
The article is fairly meaningless because there is no indication as to whether or not the accidents would have happened if the car was not using autopilot or how many accidents where avoided by autopilot.This is nothing but sensational journalism.
In February 2023, NHTSA announced that Tesla would recall 360,000 vehicles equipped with FSD beta due to the increased risk of crashes. Although there are conflicting reports of the Autopilot’s effectiveness. Tesla’s Vehicle Safety report for Q4 2022 revealed .
Can’t all be meaningless, but I only posted it for info, make of it what you will. Most points are debatable as it says above “Conflicting reports”.
Anything to do with Tesla will attract distortion, fundamentally as it is a physical manifestation of a single man who will lie and deceive to make money at all costs.
The fundamental issue with the Tesla system is that he launched it and sold it overtly as something it wasn't and that's just going to keep adding fuel to any fire.
It makes reading between the lines on articles ever more important. There are clearly issues with the tech as well as how people are using it but the size of those issues is a bit of a guess.
Reverting to personal anecdotes, I've seen some Tesla's do some crazy things on main roads but then I've a colleague who bought a VW that wouldn't let him onto his driveway because the bollard by the side of the road was in fact obviously a small child about to killed by him so his car opted to save the child every day, at the same time, in the same place.
Attempting to argue there is no such problem is very last decade and was never founded on any rational logic.
The fundamental issue with the Tesla system is that he launched it and sold it overtly as something it wasn't and that's just going to keep adding fuel to any fire.
It makes reading between the lines on articles ever more important. There are clearly issues with the tech as well as how people are using it but the size of those issues is a bit of a guess.
Reverting to personal anecdotes, I've seen some Tesla's do some crazy things on main roads but then I've a colleague who bought a VW that wouldn't let him onto his driveway because the bollard by the side of the road was in fact obviously a small child about to killed by him so his car opted to save the child every day, at the same time, in the same place.
Attempting to argue there is no such problem is very last decade and was never founded on any rational logic.
Pooh said:
andy43 said:
When you’ve nearly been rear ended because you dared to cross a ley line or drive under a bridge while on FSD, or when you’ve been thrown across to the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic because you’ve driven over bus stop markings you can understand how Teslas may have had a few more accidents than average.
I have driven 26k miles in my model Y in the last 8.5 months, I use Autopilot at every opportunity, nothing like this has ever happened and Teslas don't have higher crash rates so your post is nonsense.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff