Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
andy43 said:
Pooh said:
andy43 said:
When you’ve nearly been rear ended because you dared to cross a ley line or drive under a bridge while on FSD, or when you’ve been thrown across to the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic because you’ve driven over bus stop markings you can understand how Teslas may have had a few more accidents than average.
I have driven 26k miles in my model Y in the last 8.5 months, I use Autopilot at every opportunity, nothing like this has ever happened and Teslas don't have higher crash rates so your post is nonsense.Has anyone heard from Whirlybird recently?
I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most recent YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most recent YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
Edited by 61GT on Thursday 8th February 23:20
Evanivitch said:
That's precisely how the Gridserve and Instavolt chargers work in my experience.
The only issue is Tesla superchargers require an app because there's no payment interface! No issue on Tesla car as it recognises the car, but non-Tesla need the app to authorise the charge.
Hence new open sites are V4 units with card readers.The only issue is Tesla superchargers require an app because there's no payment interface! No issue on Tesla car as it recognises the car, but non-Tesla need the app to authorise the charge.
61GT said:
Has anyone heard from Whirlybird recently?
I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
If you click on their username - the answer is no.I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
Harry Metcalfe - no, never heard of him.
Looks like May ‘23 is his most recent post.
This is the Harry’s Garage (Harry Metcalfe) video I was referring to. I thought it was quite an informative and balanced piece and certainly not all about bashing EVs.
https://youtu.be/nZysvgm2_Aw?si=63K20YC5Xv8InDHY
This is the Harry’s Garage (Harry Metcalfe) video I was referring to. I thought it was quite an informative and balanced piece and certainly not all about bashing EVs.
https://youtu.be/nZysvgm2_Aw?si=63K20YC5Xv8InDHY
Some of the largest traditional automakers are experiencing electric vehicle growing pains and pulling back on production.
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/19/ev-cars-ford-ligh...
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/19/ev-cars-ford-ligh...
61GT said:
Has anyone heard from Whirlybird recently?
I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most recent YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
What's any of that to do with Whirlybirds OP. He was talking about the environment and classic cars?I know he ruffled a few feathers with some posters but given the recent news around Arrival, Polestar, EV depreciation, etc I think he may have had some valid points.
Anyone seen the most recent YouTube video from Harry Metcalfe?, well worth a watch.
Edited by 61GT on Thursday 8th February 23:20
Regards to you post though, personally I can't think of a better time to buy a used EV. I wish I was in the market for one as there are some ridiculous bargains to be had, at a range of price points.
It's worth bearing in mind that many people here bought into EV a long time ago. I've had one for 5 years and it's saved me a fortune and also saved my ICE (by virtue of me not adding another 78k onto it and turning it into scrap). As a company car, it's been far from a con and if it lasts me another 5 years it'll be even less of one.
Zero Fuchs said:
What's any of that to do with Whirlybirds OP. He was talking about the environment and classic cars?
Regards to you post though, personally I can't think of a better time to buy a used EV. I wish I was in the market for one as there are some ridiculous bargains to be had, at a range of price points.
It's worth bearing in mind that many people here bought into EV a long time ago. I've had one for 5 years and it's saved me a fortune and also saved my ICE (by virtue of me not adding another 78k onto it and turning it into scrap). As a company car, it's been far from a con and if it lasts me another 5 years it'll be even less of one.
I didn’t read all his posts but I do recall some, didn’t think his posts were just confined to the environment and classic car angles.Regards to you post though, personally I can't think of a better time to buy a used EV. I wish I was in the market for one as there are some ridiculous bargains to be had, at a range of price points.
It's worth bearing in mind that many people here bought into EV a long time ago. I've had one for 5 years and it's saved me a fortune and also saved my ICE (by virtue of me not adding another 78k onto it and turning it into scrap). As a company car, it's been far from a con and if it lasts me another 5 years it'll be even less of one.
61GT said:
I didn’t read all his posts but I do recall some, didn’t think his posts were just confined to the environment and classic car angles.
I'm sure he was anecdotally right about some things, some of the time. Sure, some EV's have been a bit of a miss and dropped heavily in value, some manufacturers have failed to make particularly good EV's. There are also external factors that have caused a drop in value - such as new to market EV's being overpriced for a while due to shortages and to hoover up buyer incentive grant money etc... Since then Chinese and Korean competition has made some over-priced EV's almost impossible to sell without heavy discounting. This is all perfectly normal, markets for new things are volatile and a war and pandemic have been big factors across the car industry in general.But whirlybird... whilst accidently 'sort of' part right, was hopelessly wide of the mark overall. And tbh, quite annoying - which I don't think he minded...
James6112 said:
If you click on their username - the answer is no.
Harry Metcalfe - no, never heard of him.
Harry Metcalf. He's nobody really. Harry Metcalfe - no, never heard of him.
Some grumpy old git with a few old cars in his lockup.
He keeps blagging cars off manufacturers and posts videos of them.
I think he does farming videos too as he has a bit of an interest in that.
Neighbour to another grumpy git that used to be on TV once but got kicked off for his violence.
jester
Edited by Pistom on Friday 9th February 02:26
Pistom said:
Harry Metcalf. He's nobody really.
Some grumpy old git with a few old cars in his lockup.
He keeps blagging cars off manufacturers and posts videos of them.
I think he does farming videos too as he has a bit of an interest in that.
Neighbour to another grumpy git that used to be on TV once but got kicked off for his violence.
jester
Metcalfe co-founded Evo magazine.Some grumpy old git with a few old cars in his lockup.
He keeps blagging cars off manufacturers and posts videos of them.
I think he does farming videos too as he has a bit of an interest in that.
Neighbour to another grumpy git that used to be on TV once but got kicked off for his violence.
jester
Edited by Pistom on Friday 9th February 02:26
Have you heard of it?
Blib said:
Metcalfe co-founded Evo magazine.
Have you heard of it?
You beat me to it! Have you heard of it?
As far a YouTube car reviews are concerned I usually find him one of the most informative, considered and balanced reviewers out there. Very much focussed on the real world user experience.
Also enjoyed his reviews of the I-Pace and Eletre.
We changed our family car last year, looked at BEV but couldn’t make the numbers add up as a private buyer - went with an ICE Golf instead.
Will go electric at some point.
t isn't it?The problem with the Metcalfe video is that it is an intelligent piece from an intelligent person who details the various very logical findings as to what everyday, consumable rental best fits their specific usage needs. That in itself is of course not a problem at all but quite the opposite, the problem is that it will be leapt on by the 'From My Cold Dead Hands' potato militia at one end of the spectrum for their use and then at the other end of that spectrum the other loons will be leaping on it and using it as a proxy to vent about their failed relationship with their dad or some such.
It's an interesting video that uses real life experience of specific usage issues to highlight the areas where EVs simply aren't the best tool for the job at this moment in time. All areas where sane people already open acknowledge them and don't use an EV for them because that would be a bit silly.
He also touches on the macro political angle with observations of the inevitable outcome when a top down incentive program is used. But EVs had no other choice but to be incentivised via a top down method as it was/is the only path to getting to affordable cars and the infrastructure to use them. It would have been morally abhorrent of any civilised society to have pushed this slow change into society via the poorest. Utterly unacceptable.
He is guilty of thinking this 30 year switch was some kind of revolution. It was never, ever going to be a Revolution of any kind. Just the fixed rate of fleet change of a developed market defines the switch as an evolution.
Nor should we concern ourselves over used EV values falling. It's just about the only segment of the car market which is operating based on true market forces and where manufacturers aren't distorting the market and consumers are paying more than should have to. It's rather superb given all the hideous market manipulation against consumers when it comes to cars to see the value of EVs being set by the consumer and for manufacturers to have temporarily lost control of their ability to manipulate used 2 and three year values upwards, against the consumer.
In reality, we should be celebrating that triumph of EVs over ICe.
In short what Harry tells us is something all functioning adults already knew which is that if you live in the countryside away from urban controls and want one big car that will do the local chores, drag big objects to far away places, able to be driven in any direction, at any time, in any style then that car is not going to be an EV and that the only options are petrol, diesel or a hybrid and which of those is generally filtered by comparing upfront and then running costs.
In Harry's case it was the base diesel as the huge cost savings dwarfed any savings from a hybrid solution. Plus, the diesel is still allowed into ULEZ etc.
It's an interesting video that uses real life experience of specific usage issues to highlight the areas where EVs simply aren't the best tool for the job at this moment in time. All areas where sane people already open acknowledge them and don't use an EV for them because that would be a bit silly.
He also touches on the macro political angle with observations of the inevitable outcome when a top down incentive program is used. But EVs had no other choice but to be incentivised via a top down method as it was/is the only path to getting to affordable cars and the infrastructure to use them. It would have been morally abhorrent of any civilised society to have pushed this slow change into society via the poorest. Utterly unacceptable.
He is guilty of thinking this 30 year switch was some kind of revolution. It was never, ever going to be a Revolution of any kind. Just the fixed rate of fleet change of a developed market defines the switch as an evolution.
Nor should we concern ourselves over used EV values falling. It's just about the only segment of the car market which is operating based on true market forces and where manufacturers aren't distorting the market and consumers are paying more than should have to. It's rather superb given all the hideous market manipulation against consumers when it comes to cars to see the value of EVs being set by the consumer and for manufacturers to have temporarily lost control of their ability to manipulate used 2 and three year values upwards, against the consumer.
In reality, we should be celebrating that triumph of EVs over ICe.
In short what Harry tells us is something all functioning adults already knew which is that if you live in the countryside away from urban controls and want one big car that will do the local chores, drag big objects to far away places, able to be driven in any direction, at any time, in any style then that car is not going to be an EV and that the only options are petrol, diesel or a hybrid and which of those is generally filtered by comparing upfront and then running costs.
In Harry's case it was the base diesel as the huge cost savings dwarfed any savings from a hybrid solution. Plus, the diesel is still allowed into ULEZ etc.
Blib said:
Pistom said:
Harry Metcalf. He's nobody really.
Some grumpy old git with a few old cars in his lockup.
He keeps blagging cars off manufacturers and posts videos of them.
I think he does farming videos too as he has a bit of an interest in that.
Neighbour to another grumpy git that used to be on TV once but got kicked off for his violence.
jester
Metcalfe co-founded Evo magazine.Some grumpy old git with a few old cars in his lockup.
He keeps blagging cars off manufacturers and posts videos of them.
I think he does farming videos too as he has a bit of an interest in that.
Neighbour to another grumpy git that used to be on TV once but got kicked off for his violence.
jester
Edited by Pistom on Friday 9th February 02:26
Have you heard of it?
I enjoyed the latest video and it raised some interesting issues.
Generally speaking an ICE suits all applications whereas an EV needs some specific use-cases (home charging, fewer long range trips, no towing etc).
The point about battery degradation is very interesting, similar to mileages to some extent - in that a 200,000 mile ICE will be worth less than a 40,000 mile one. But buyers and sellers of EV's should be able to see degradation figures on cars.
The Bjørn Nyland video that Harry links to will be worrying for some.
Generally speaking an ICE suits all applications whereas an EV needs some specific use-cases (home charging, fewer long range trips, no towing etc).
The point about battery degradation is very interesting, similar to mileages to some extent - in that a 200,000 mile ICE will be worth less than a 40,000 mile one. But buyers and sellers of EV's should be able to see degradation figures on cars.
The Bjørn Nyland video that Harry links to will be worrying for some.
61GT said:
Looks like May ‘23 is his most recent post.
This is the Harry’s Garage (Harry Metcalfe) video I was referring to. I thought it was quite an informative and balanced piece and certainly not all about bashing EVs.
https://youtu.be/nZysvgm2_Aw?si=63K20YC5Xv8InDHY
I'm only about 5 minutes in but the RR examples, flashed extremely quickly so can't be read without freezing video.are inconsistent. The Hybrid is £99K with £20K deposit and nearing 10% interest rate and the 300 is £85K with £25K deposit and interest of under 6%. No wonder the monthlies are so different. Hardly apples for apples is it. If this is his approach i take everything he says with a very big pinch of salt. This is the Harry’s Garage (Harry Metcalfe) video I was referring to. I thought it was quite an informative and balanced piece and certainly not all about bashing EVs.
https://youtu.be/nZysvgm2_Aw?si=63K20YC5Xv8InDHY
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