Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[hyphen]

JPJPJP said:

Q4 results have disappointed on EPS apparently (0.8 vs 1.03 expected)

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/78Z2ZX_2020_Q4_...

Meanwhile in the Jam Today side of the market, Apple report $100bn in revenue in a single quarter...

[Heres Johnny]

Jordan210 said:

SWoll said:

Why wouldn't you just use your left thumb?

Its a game. Musk even says you can play Cyberpunk on the screen

For a brand that wants to be the safest in the world, they clearly spend a lot of money on ergonomics to make the driver interaction with the car the safest and most intuitive reducing the likelihood of operator error, distraction, confusion or sending incorrect signals to other road users so as to help them avoid making mistakes. Presumably 100 years of car control evolution has got it completely wrong or maybe, just maybe Tesla implement things like this because Musk is playing out some childhood fantasy in his head and not because any of it actually makes sense. Was he bullied at school?

[JD]

Heres Johnny said:

.
battery is the same (until Plaid+), they've finally ditched the single larger rear motor and replaced it with 2 smaller ones in the Plaid, the interior is in effect a Model 3 with a binnacle. Again its down to the quality of the execution, if the materials feel premium, the fit tight, the sound deadening improved etc then great, but there's no indication of new underpinnings to improve the ride or handling etc.

Which bit looks the same?

[Smiljan]

Durzel said:

The worst part about the touch sensitive controls, in my opinion, is that inexplicably both left and right indicators are on the LEFT side of the wheel...



It looks like you'd have to actually lift your hand to press the button with your forefinger to indicate right, on the left hand side of the wheel. Beggars belief.

Also horn as a haptic (or not) soft button amuses me. Completely the opposite of how it is typically used.

Looks like a friggin koala bear face

[LG9k]

The indicators are reminiscent of those on my Dad's old Citroen CX (a rocker switch to the left of the binnacle).

https://41cef548pyo610dh50468nkk-wpengine.netdna-s...

[Heres Johnny]

JD said:

Which bit looks the same?

Which bit looks different to you? The colour? The sheet metal work? The form factor looks identical, the range is worse on the MX for the Long range so doesn't seem like progress.

[ZesPak]

Heres Johnny said:

For a brand that wants to be the safest in the world,

I know you like to have a dig at Tesla, and for all they claim and promise it's not hard to pick a target, but you do know that they ARE the safest cars in the world right? I'm not even sure they WANT to be, it's a byproduct of the design more than anything.

[JD]

Heres Johnny said:

Which bit looks different to you? The colour? The sheet metal work? The form factor looks identical, the range is worse on the MX for the Long range so doesn't seem like progress.

Are we looking at the same picture, I can't see a single component that appears to be the same?

[Smiljan]

With the Plaid model on the site it says 0-60 is 1.99 seconds (with rollout subtracted). What does the rollout subtracted bit mean? I'm sure it's been covered here before somewhere.

also what does this mean?

Optimized Aerodynamics

Attention to detail on all exterior surfaces makes Model S the most aerodynamic production car on Earth.

Edit - Scrub that they have .208 Cd mentioned elsewhere in the site.

Edited by Smiljan on Thursday 28th January 13:16

[ZesPak]

Smiljan said:

Optimized Aerodynamics

Attention to detail on all exterior surfaces makes Model S the most aerodynamic production car on Earth.

That usually means lowest drag coefficient.
So in car terms very "slippery" through the air.
Air resistance is one of the largest forces to overcome in terms of efficiency, especially at higher speeds, so every bit helps (I remember the early A6 with the smaller far side mirror ).
I knew the TMS was slippery, didn't realize it was THAT slippery. Just looked it up, the 2012 one was 0.24 Cd, which apparently matched the Prius even though it has a larger frontal area.

Mind you: not all cars want to be slippery. Spoilers usually.... spoil that in order to generate downforce.

[Smiljan]

It is an impressive number, there's a lot more smaller details to this update than people are giving them credit for I think.

[LG9k]

ZesPak said:

That usually means lowest drag coefficient.
So in car terms very "slippery" through the air.
Air resistance is one of the largest forces to overcome in terms of efficiency, especially at higher speeds, so every bit helps (I remember the early A6 with the smaller far side mirror ).
I knew the TMS was slippery, didn't realize it was THAT slippery. Just looked it up, the 2012 one was 0.24 Cd, which apparently matched the Prius even though it has a larger frontal area.

Mind you: not all cars want to be slippery. Spoilers usually.... spoil that in order to generate downforce.

The A Class has a lower co-efficient than a Prius at 0.22

[ZesPak]

LG9k said:

The A Class has a lower co-efficient than a Prius at 0.22

That's why I specifically mentioned the 2012 Model S.

Can't find the numbers on the 2016 facelift, but they are better still.
The 2022 one is apparently close to 0.2 ...

[SWoll]

Jordan210 said:

SWoll said:

Why wouldn't you just use your left thumb?

Its a game. Musk even says you can play Cyberpunk on the screen

Quite right, apologies. Read Netflix and The Witcher in the same sentence and didn't look closely enough.

[LG9k]

ZesPak said:

That's why I specifically mentioned the 2012 Model S.

Can't find the numbers on the 2016 facelift, but they are better still.
The 2022 one is apparently close to 0.2 ...

Indeed, but I suppose my point was that the trad makers already better things like the Model 3, despite the disadvantage of having to put an engine and all it's coolling requirements in the front.

It'll be very interesting what they achieve once they fully commit to EVs.

[ZesPak]

LG9k said:

Indeed, but I suppose my point was that the trad makers already better things like the Model 3, despite the disadvantage of having to put an engine and all it's coolling requirements in the front.

It'll be very interesting what they achieve once they fully commit to EVs.

or if Tesla committed to a smaller car.

[Heres Johnny]

JD said:

Heres Johnny said:

Which bit looks different to you? The colour? The sheet metal work? The form factor looks identical, the range is worse on the MX for the Long range so doesn't seem like progress.

Are we looking at the same picture, I can't see a single component that appears to be the same?

You are comparing a picture of the car which looks like the one from 2013 which has had several battery pack iterations, 3 different versions of the motors and 2 suspension updates with the car today - the form factor of the battery ie the outline, the raised area at one end, general space it occupies is the same, the suspension set up - the same. There's nothing new going on here that hasn't been introduced in the last 8 years until the plaid+ car comes out

If Tesla had introduced whole new battery tech in the car, given how big a deal they take battery tech, I think they'd have mentioned it. Reading on Reddit he's confirmed the batteries haven't changed

Edited by Heres Johnny on Thursday 28th January 16:48

[LG9k]

ZesPak said:

or if Tesla committed to a smaller car.

Not necessarily, a Mercedes S-Class is 0.24

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31863081/ae...

[ZesPak]

LG9k said:

Not necessarily, a Mercedes S-Class is 0.24

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31863081/ae...

So... Similar to the 2012 model S with a slightly smaller frontal area? Impressive but how does that disprove my statement?

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 28th January 16:06

[Zcd1]

Heres Johnny said:

...Reading on Reddit he's confirmed the batteries haven't changed

Incorrect - battery chemistry and cooling have been changed to improve charge speed and thermal control.