Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[T25UFO]

AstonZagato said:

I find it odd. It does seem to be a very marmite company. The polarised views are more extreme than most - lots who seem obsessed that it should fail and many converts who brook no criticism of the company. Love and hate, equally blind. (Not so much here, by the way: more the Tesla forums where the arguments are epic).

I have had a dreadful experience with Tesla but love my Model X. I think Musk has pursued a highly risky and quite possibly flawed strategy. However, what he has achieved is astounding. The products they produce have amazing aspects - real eye-opening leaps forward - yet have some equally amazing faults. It might be the "Apple of cars" - redefining the entire industry. It might be a flash in the pan.

Both camps are a bit odd, as far as I'm concerned. However, I would point out that, in my limited experience, the cars are generally adored by women and millennials and loathed by middle-aged men - and the more "into cars" they are, the more likely that they will disparage Teslas. So perhaps the demographic of PH counts against the brand.

Probably the most balanced post I've read on this forum - well said!

I consider myself an (old) petrolhead having owned Caterham 7 R300 (1), BMW M3 (2), Lotus Elise (2), Lotus 340R (1), Porsche 911 (3) and now a Porsche Cayman GT4. But I still like the BEV concept and, like a few more on this forum, would buy a Model X if the 100D was priced at 75D levels. I'm not at all bothered about the ludicrous acceleration times - just like the extra range and the free supercharging would be nice. I've looked at the iPace and it's definitely not for me.

Oh, and I love your new Vanquish. I wish, I wish, I wish . . . .

[Evanivitch]

Jordan210 said:

Evanivitch said:

So not basic parts then, but accident repair parts.

Still pretty basic parts.

Most car companies can get those parts out to customers with in a matter of days. even low volume manufactures.

As a matter of interest, I saw this post in the M6 Owner's thread.

Prinny on 22nd June said:

On this... I managed to smash my windscreen last week with my disklok... and car is now at dealers for a new one (eta 2nd July).

That's not exactly rapid from.a mainstream manufacturer is it!

[anonymous-user]

Evanivitch said:

That's not exactly rapid from.a mainstream manufacturer is it!

No doubt could be had more quickly from a screen specialist but 10 days isn’t bad in any case.

Very rarely would one need a new screen in such a hurry.

[anonymous-user]

11 model 3s in an auction in USA today apparently

https://twitter.com/wallstcynic/status/10152506348...

[jjwilde]

JPJPJP said:

11 model 3s in an auction in USA today apparently

https://twitter.com/wallstcynic/status/10152506348...

Trying to sell them for more than the real price. I'd rather spec up my own car with Tesla for less.

Plus I doubt you can get the tax credit if you buy a second hand one.

I'm guessing some chancer bought 11 and is trying to make a tidy profit here but it isn't working!

[RobDickinson]

People were flipping 3s on eBay for 80-90k, crazy but it happens in USA even the dealers try it on.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

People were flipping 3s on eBay for 80-90k, crazy but it happens in USA even the dealers try it on.

Looks as if those heady days are gone

https://twitter.com/dayyanl/status/101525522359653...

There is still a bit in it at those prices with the tax incentive, but not much

[Toaster]

JPJPJP said:

RobDickinson said:

People were flipping 3s on eBay for 80-90k, crazy but it happens in USA even the dealers try it on.

Looks as if those heady days are gone

https://twitter.com/dayyanl/status/101525522359653...

There is still a bit in it at those prices with the tax incentive, but not much

I suspect it will soon be normalised its the wall street to main street scenario the series 3 isn't a McLaren F1 in terms of volumes that will be produced.

Edited to say RobDickenson posted

Official kona ev UK prices..
£30k for 39kwh
£36k for 64kwh

Both before the plug in car grant making them £5k cheaper retail.

£31,000 for a 64kwh car is quite cheap..

https://www.hyundai.news/uk/model-news/hyundai-mot...

and whilst this model isn't for everyone another manufacturer will be along quite soon with a model you may just want....so Tesla's market push is not just about getting profitable its about the other manufactures they will be competing with very shortly.

Edited by Toaster on Wednesday 11th July 10:24

[uktrailmonster]

We took a risk on buying a new Tesla Model X in Feb and it has been a real game changer for this middle aged petrolhead! It reminds me of when I bought my first iMac in 2002 and thought wow this is a LOT better than my beige pc. We all know what happened to Apple, so I'm hoping Tesla will survive and continue to innovate and grow. It's about time the US got into making decent world market cars. The traditional industry has been slow and lazy to respond, not to mention the diesel cheats, so I don't actually care if the likes of VAG survive long term. As for Uber, I don't really give a monkeys either way!

[Mr2Mike]

uktrailmonster said:

We all know what happened to Apple,

They made lots of money selling overpriced products with many design issues and screwed their customers over on support. You may have an excellent point.

[AstonZagato]

Tesla and Uber both get name-checked in this junk-debt Armageddon article:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-corporate-...

[RobDickinson]

Oh look, Bloomberg...

[anonymous-user]

Not content with his current workload, Elon is looking for more stuff to do

https://twitter.com/morganhousel/status/1017430861...

[AstonZagato]

Bloomberg continues it's campaign:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-12...

[gangzoom]

AstonZagato said:

Bloomberg continues it's campaign:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-12...

It really is tragic how much effort people go to when it comes to wanting to destory/ignore/hault progress.

The likes of Uber and Tesla have brought massive changes to industries which were stagnating and out dated. Going back to hailling Taxis after using Uber seems almost as pointless to me as going back to a petrol/diesel car for family trips/commute.

Oh well doesn't bother me some people just want to stay living in the past.

[RobDickinson]

Uber service model is great to use, but as a company they are right stes. I don't know how they can loose so much cash either they basically cream a percent of the trips

[Heres Johnny]

gangzoom said:

AstonZagato said:

Bloomberg continues it's campaign:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-12...

It really is tragic how much effort people go to when it comes to wanting to destory/ignore/hault progress.

The likes of Uber and Tesla have brought massive changes to industries which were stagnating and out dated. Going back to hailling Taxis after using Uber seems almost as pointless to me as going back to a petrol/diesel car for family trips/commute.

Oh well doesn't bother me some people just want to stay living in the past.

Which bits don't you agree with?

The conclusion was bang on.

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

Which bits don't you agree with?

The conclusion was bang on.

You mean this bit...

"At present, the Model 3 is selling more units in the U.S. than any comparably priced midsize sedan, including those offered by Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi. It’s fast and fun to drive."

So after spending a few thousand words trying to justify shorting Tesla the authors conclusion is essentially the same mine, the Model 3 is a game changer which ever way you look at it .

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 13th July 15:35

[RumbleOfThunder]

gangzoom said:

Heres Johnny said:

Which bits don't you agree with?

The conclusion was bang on.

You mean this bit...

At present, the Model 3 is selling more units in the U.S. than any comparably priced midsize sedan, including those offered by Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi. It’s fast and fun to drive.

So after spending a few thousand words trying to justify shorting Tesla the authors conclusion is essentially the same mine, the Model 3 is a game changer which ever way you look at it .

That's a bit disingenuous given the huge amount of models the Germans offer and the way they cannibalise sales within themselves, of course. I suspect the definition of "midsize sedan" is suspect too.

[gangzoom]

RumbleOfThunder said:

That's a bit disingenuous given the huge amount of models the Germans offer and the way they cannibalise sales within themselves, of course. I suspect the definition of "midsize sedan" is suspect too.

Do you mean the bit about out-selling midsize sedans? That bit is 100% correct, sales figures for June is still outstanding but Model 3 is already the best selling 'premium' saloon in the US despite production constraints.

It's almost guaranteed the 3 will end up in the top 10 best selling cars in the US for 2018 come December, how high on the list it gets will depend on how quickly Tesla can build them. The Ford F series is the best selling car in the US 2017, 800K I doubt Model 3 will reach that figure, but the first non-truck in the US top sales list 2017 is the Rav4 at 400K units. Tesla have 400K pre-orders but breach 400K sales figure this year they will need to hit 10K per week production which seems unlikely, but who knows.

One thing is certain, a new factory in China, continue to expand Gigafactory = more capital costs, which will mean bigger loans coming......that should keep the likes of Seeking Alpha busy with more fuel to predict Tesla going under .