Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[hyphen]

jamoor said:

A motor and battery aren't exactly complicated nor hard to remove and replace.

Nissan Leaf replacement battery costs $5,499 + 3 hours Labour.
Tesla Model 3 battery $7000 per Module (contain 4).

Also bear in mind that it is expected that Solid State batteries will takeover from lithium in 10 years,so any retrofit solution may be a bit of a hack and not as good as an OEM car designed from scratch for these. And perhaps more complicated with disabling/removing any cooling systems, upgrading boards, software and what ever else.

Sources: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-replacin...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/11170998612732...

Edited by hyphen on Friday 30th August 22:13

[PS2018]

Do we think solid state batteries start to be commonly rolled out in EV cars from around 2021 onwards?
Probably be a fairly big price premium over lithium at least to begin with?

[Burwood]

PS2018 said:

Do we think solid state batteries start to be commonly rolled out in EV cars from around 2021 onwards?
Probably be a fairly big price premium over lithium at least to begin with?

Common, no. Common is 10 years away. Expensive but good, 2021 quite possible

[hyphen]

Unless someone is hiding their work, not expected till 2025, and will slip probably as they are spending loads but its hard work.

Dyson are launching their first car in 2021 and think have said it will be lithium based- they purchased a hot solid state battery startup, and it all went a bit tits up with the star of this company parting ways with Dyson amid claims it was all over exaggerated and was no where near commercially viable as Dyson were led to believe.

https://qz.com/948041/dyson-sakti3-tesla-battery-p...

Edited by hyphen on Friday 30th August 22:29

[SWoll]

Burwood said:

PS2018 said:

Do we think solid state batteries start to be commonly rolled out in EV cars from around 2021 onwards?
Probably be a fairly big price premium over lithium at least to begin with?

Common, no. Common is 10 years away. Expensive but good, 2021 quite possible

I think Dyson are pushing to be one of the first but their EV is already being speculated at £100k+.

ETA

hyphen said:

Unless someone is hiding their work, not expected till 2025, and will slip probably as they are spending loads but its hard work.

Dyson are launching their first car in 2021 and think have said it will be lithium based- they purchased a hot solid state battery startup, and it all went a bit tits up

https://qz.com/948041/dyson-sakti3-tesla-battery-p...

Maybe not then.

Edited by SWoll on Friday 30th August 22:28

[jamoor]

hyphen said:

Nissan Leaf replacement battery costs $5,499 + 3 hours Labour.
Tesla Model 3 battery $7000 per Module (contain 4).

Also bear in mind that it is expected that Solid State batteries will takeover from lithium in 10 years,so any retrofit solution may be a bit of a hack and not as good as an OEM car designed from scratch for these. And perhaps more complicated with disabling/removing any cooling systems, upgrading boards, software and what ever else.

Sources: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cost-of-replacin...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/11170998612732...

Edited by hyphen on Friday 30th August 22:13

What's the cost in 3 years time?

[hyphen]

jamoor said:

What's the cost in 3 years time?

The question asked was not if a battery swap was needed, as you seem to be implying with this reply?

The question was- how much for a battery upgrade in 3 years if tech is better.

Your original reply to me: "A motor and battery aren't exactly complicated nor hard to remove and replace." does not reflect the realities of replacement prices charged.

[JD]

T-195 said:

At least they won't catch fire.

"Ford said it had issued a voluntary safety recall through the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) in January on certain vehicles including the Focus, Kuga, C-MAX, Fiesta ST and Transit Connect models built between 2010 and 2015.
The company has been aware of the issue on the 1.6-litre EcoBoost since 2012, after several engine fires in the US. A recall was issued there in 2014."

[PS2018]

Thanks hyphen and for the links too. Interesting stuff.

[jamoor]

hyphen said:

The question asked was not if a battery swap was needed, as you seem to be implying with this reply?

The question was- how much for a battery upgrade in 3 years if tech is better.

Your original reply to me: "A motor and battery aren't exactly complicated nor hard to remove and replace." does not reflect the realities of replacement prices charged.

Who knows?

It may be time for a new car, but its the exact same situation we are in now so we aren't exactly worse off?

[hyphen]

Was wondering about Tesla's new car insurance foray and if they were doing it themselves.

Nope - Turns out they are just fronting and taking a commission from an actual insurance company

By the law there, they are also not allowed to only insure their own models, have to offer for all cars

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/08/3...

[Dave Hedgehog]

hyphen said:

Was wondering about Tesla's new car insurance foray and if they were doing it themselves.

Nope - Turns out they are just fronting and taking a commission from an actual insurance company

By the law there, they are also not allowed to only insure their own models, have to offer for all cars

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/08/3...

Pretty standard stuff, you don’t think the free insurance you often get with cheap french cars is done by the car company? Or that when you take out finance the car company is lending you the money?

[hyphen]

Sambucket said:

Tesla up today on news it will be exempt from China’s 10% purchase tax.

I remember thinking when the Chinese PM offered Musk Chinese citizenship, that Tesla might have an edge in China.

Turns out to be fake news - It's not a Tesla exemption, its a wide exemption on EV cars rather than for a brand.

[hyphen]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Pretty standard stuff, you don’t think the free insurance you often get with cheap french cars is done by the car company? Or that when you take out finance the car company is lending you the money?

Yes, and Tesco own brand cornflakes aren't made by Tesco.

I know

Tesla have $5bm in cash, so I had wondered if they were utilizing it in an innovative manner, as Tesla are known for wanting to do everything in house.

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 31st August 07:01

[Witchfinder]

PS2018 said:

Do we think solid state batteries start to be commonly rolled out in EV cars from around 2021 onwards?

Based on various articles and reports I've read, they'll probably just start being used in production cars around 2025.

[RobDickinson]

Burwood said:

A question for Tesla/EV owners please. Do you have a creep function. The E Golf I had rolled back on me and freaked me out. Creep is a must have.

Yes they have a creep function if you want it, and an auto hold.

[Dave Hedgehog]

RobDickinson said:

Burwood said:

A question for Tesla/EV owners please. Do you have a creep function. The E Golf I had rolled back on me and freaked me out. Creep is a must have.

Yes they have a creep function if you want it, and an auto hold.

On the M3 it works very well, just like a normal auto in traffic, auto pilot in traffic is not very good as it leaves a huge gap infront of you, in London you would have a stream of cars pushing in on you

I was surprised just how car like the M3 is, except the power delivery that’s hugely better and addictive

[T-195]

Dave Hedgehog said:

I was surprised just how car like the M3 is

You must be easily surprised.

Too Car like, not Sports Car like.


The M3.

[jamoor]

hyphen said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Pretty standard stuff, you don’t think the free insurance you often get with cheap french cars is done by the car company? Or that when you take out finance the car company is lending you the money?

Yes, and Tesco own brand cornflakes aren't made by Tesco.

I know

Tesla have $5bm in cash, so I had wondered if they were utilizing it in an innovative manner, as Tesla are known for wanting to do everything in house.

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 31st August 07:01

Stick to what you know, I don't think they know much about insurance and the regulations surrounding it.

Not only that but insurance companies are usually investment companies the insurance part of it actually makes a loss.

[DonkeyApple]

Witchfinder said:

PS2018 said:

Do we think solid state batteries start to be commonly rolled out in EV cars from around 2021 onwards?

Based on various articles and reports I've read, they'll probably just start being used in production cars around 2025.

That seems quite bullish without a very significant tech breakthrough. The first logical commercial step for SS is the migration out of tiny and low volume consumer goods such as pacemakers and into a larger and more prevalent market such as mobile phones before the enormous scaling up to motor vehicles.

One of the problems with the EV industry is that it is flooded with dishonest optimism by researchers and scientists seeking funding. Those of us who grew up in the 80s will remember all the hyperbole regarding flying cars, speech recognition, humanoid robots etc and of these the only one that has managed to make progress to commercial viability is speech recognition and even that is not exactly brilliant.

With SS batteries, logic does dictate that we will see these in small, generic devices long before we see them in cars and that first step doesn’t appear to be on the immediate horizon.