Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[jjwilde]

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

[SWoll]

Another stupid gimmick. Looks crap and will be rubbish for low speed maneuvering.

Fine for a track car with limited lock requirements but for a massive saloon car you'll need to park in a tight multi storey or supermarket car park, no..

[Heres Johnny]

jjwilde said:

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

You know that’s a preproduction car with wiring loom connectors clearly exposed.. either that or the build quality is as bad as ever

Anybody else think the big screen also looks like its obscuring part of the screen behind the wheel?

[EddieSteadyGo]

Smiljan said:

Anyway, that’s my speculation for the weekend, I’m not buying any of it. Let’s see of the stock pushes up like it normally does with such news.

Does Musk need to pump the stock anymore this year?

He has triggered his pretty gigantic numeration package. He has raised a ton of cash by diluting the stock at very little cost (to him). And he has weathered the worst of the stormy weather getting his factories setup to make cars at a reasonable rate (although sometimes variable quality).

I think he can probably concentrate for the rest of this year getting the Model Y into more countries around the world, continuing to scale up production capacity, and trying to squeeze some recurring subscription revenues from the "FSD" software.

[ds666]

Does it have a normal dash too ( i.e. something more than just the tablet display )?

[98elise]

Clive Milk said:

And finally, the Tesla cars vis a vis their current stock price. What have they got now and coming out soon compared to the ramping up opposition.

What they have now

1. A model S, ancient sedan/ saloon having a midlife facelift with extra power.
2. Model X, SUV, long in the tooth, getting more power, not so much of a face lift.
3. Model 3, modern sedan/ saloon, getting reduced in price,
4. Model Y, modern small SUV, getting reduced in price.

What's upcoming

1. Roadster, sports car, delayed to 2022
2. Cybertruck, radical all steel bullet proof SUV.
3. Truck / Semi / Lorry , probably delayed to 2022.

My summary is the current range is stagnant and being reduced in price just to ship "more than 50% over 2020" that Tesla have promised on the quarterly telephone meeting with analysts.

Of the upcoming 3 vehicles the Roadster seems to be dead man walking at the moment unless new news. Cybertruck is a bigger concern though, it is made out of stainless steel just because Elon has a stainless steel bent for the last 2 years, see his Starship.

How Cybertruck is going to pass crash testing on occupants and pedestrians is a big uknown. It's not exactly deformable is it?

I'm guessing late 2022, early 2023 for it, if at all. Meanwhile GM and Ford will have released products in the same niche.

Genuine question, what's ancient about the S and the X other than they've been in production a while? The drivetrain is about 95% efficient, and there haven't been any huge advances in battery tech. The skateboard chassis design is about as good as you get for a heavy battery. The body is aluminium, and the dash is a big screen and the software is updated regularly.

Apart from a facelift there really isn't anything to modernise.

[dukeboy749r]

I have to say I agree. However, with more choice I think Tesla’s limited range may be a growing challenge

[Smiljan]

jjwilde said:

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

There's been some confusion over that wheel as it's different to the renderings Tesla released. I don't see it being too much of an issue in cars that are used on mostly long journey with the cruise control/lane keeping on. But, combine it with the drive selector guessing which way to go and touchscreen controls for fwd/reverse selections it could be a bit of a faff doing a 3 point turn or reverse parking for example.

I'm a little surprised they didn't just offer it as an option, they take 10 minutes to fit so could be an easy install during PDI type option.

As for the other question from someone else about why it needs a refresh at all or a new model, for the S I'd agree, personally the facelift has aged really well and it's a handsome thing for a big hatchback but the interior update was needed as the original was looking tired.

The biggest thing I'm looking forward genuinely to see is how the Cybertruck ends up and what they'll price it at, currently it's still listing at around half the price of a similar spec Model S. I just can't see how they'll manage that.

Battery tech and other under the skin stuff can and has been just gradually improved as the years have gone on.

The X, I think personally has aged terribly. It always was marmite for looks but for me it looked old when it launched and needs more than just an interior refresh. Just not worth them doing it for the numbers sold though.

My posts about Musk pumping the stock are always tongue in cheek of course. He posts on twitter from his personal account so everything has to taken at face value. There does often follow a rise in share price through short term so I'm looking to see what happens this week.

From what I hear and read he's 90% SpaceX focused now and not really putting in the same amount of hours at Tesla anymore so might be putting out ideas his team will push back against later.

Edited by Smiljan on Sunday 7th March 12:52

[Heres Johnny]

The battery tech isn’t being updated except in the plaid+ so will be three generations old, the last generation is in the M3 and the latest is the new bigger cells going into the Plaid+ and the Berlin MY. While the chemistry has been tweaked a bit over the years, the last update that I can find on that generation of battery was in 2015 when they changed the anode or cathode coating (can’t recall which) and since then it’s largely been around tweaks to aid cooling. The 100 battery pack is now just a tweaked version of a battery that came out in late 2016 and the range improvements have been mainly due to aero and motor changes.

Musks Twitter account has also been registered with the appropriate authorities to be formal Tesla communication and all the restrictions and obligations that go with that.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Sunday 7th March 13:27

[Mikehig]

That "yoke" steering wheel.....perhaps they've made the steering speed sensitive so that turning it 90 degrees would give full lock at low speed with the response reducing as the speed rises?

[hyphen]

jjwilde said:

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

The steering wheel was discussed on the recent Rogan interview.

interview said:

Rogan asked Musk whether the steering wheel was legal in the new interview.

“Yeah, I mean they use a yoke in Formula One,” Musk said.

“Yeah, but you’re not on the highway in a Formula One car,” Rogan responded. “I like driving like this, resting my hand on the top of the wheel.”

“Well, Autopilot is getting good enough that you won’t need to drive most of the time,” Musk said. “I find you can rest your hand on your knee... it works great

[Smiljan]

Always trying to outdo the Taycan in every way

[TheRainMaker]

Isn’t that picture five years old

[Smiljan]

Does it matter? It’s only a feeble joke.

[ZesPak]

Pah, feeble effort! That Tesla actually got outdoors before it crashed.

[off_again]

dukeboy749r said:

I have to say I agree. However, with more choice I think Tesla’s limited range may be a growing challenge

Completely agree - two sedans / saloons in a market that is shrinking and 2 SUV's with one that is too expensive and only sells in very small numbers and the fast selling one IS stealing sales from their existing range. As much as it pains me, SUV's are selling well - small, luxury, premium and mid-size (and large, but less so). The Rav4, CRV and a multitude of others are selling well - failure to address this market means that Tesla is missing a trick.

Its a sensitive market with a focus on value, reliability and price - so maybe they dont go for it, but when Chevrolet boosts the size of the Bolt to jump into it and Kia / Hyundai are doing well at the smaller-end of the market. I cant help that Tesla is missing a trick.

[off_again]

jjwilde said:

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

I dont know the legality of this in the US, but prototype rules allow pretty much anything. It is likely to be different for production.

However, I remember that I watched a review video of the original KITT car from Knight Rider - the steering wheel was a nightmare. Its been commented on many times and everyone hated it. Track focused race car, makes sense as you are pulling high-g turns at 180MPH - minimal movement is fine. Shuffling into a parking space at the local supermarket? Yeah, that is going to suuuuccckk. And dont use the 'but it parks itself' stuff - yeah right, like you are going to rely on that 100% of the time? Nope. Its another little attention grabbing publicity stunt to get the Tesla fanboys whipped up into excitement and another feature that wont make it to production.

[hyphen]

Smiljan said:

Does it matter? It’s only a feeble joke.

Yes. Because 5 years ago the Tesla (market cap $0) wasn't intelligent and self-aware like it is now (market cap $infinity+1).

That Tesla would have recognized the danger if it was today

[Burwood]

off_again said:

jjwilde said:

People have been spotting the new S in the states, and it does have that mad steering wheel, obviously it could be amazing, but I can't quite get my head around how it could work as well as a normal wheel?



I do want to try it tho. Apparently it is legal in the UK/EU.

I dont know the legality of this in the US, but prototype rules allow pretty much anything. It is likely to be different for production.

However, I remember that I watched a review video of the original KITT car from Knight Rider - the steering wheel was a nightmare. Its been commented on many times and everyone hated it. Track focused race car, makes sense as you are pulling high-g turns at 180MPH - minimal movement is fine. Shuffling into a parking space at the local supermarket? Yeah, that is going to suuuuccckk. And dont use the 'but it parks itself' stuff - yeah right, like you are going to rely on that 100% of the time? Nope. Its another little attention grabbing publicity stunt to get the Tesla fanboys whipped up into excitement and another feature that wont make it to production.

It's legal in the UK and most of Europe-it's just bloody stupid

[Smiljan]

hyphen said:

Smiljan said:

Does it matter? It’s only a feeble joke.

Yes. Because 5 years ago the Tesla (market cap $0) wasn't intelligent and self-aware like it is now (market cap $infinity+1).

That Tesla would have recognized the danger if it was today

True, today is would guess reverse was the best direction and you’d find yourself out the other end of the showroom...