Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[anonymous-user]

I stand corrected. That's older than I would have guessed. Guess I'm trying to feel young!

[Smiljan]

It's the cost I'm assuming, plenty of 20 somethings can find £1k for latest phone. Finding £40k for a base Model 3 is a little more difficult. Not saying there aren't any but on average I'd expect the UK buyer ages to be similar.

[anonymous-user]

In response to Johnny's point that Tesla owners are less happy than aspiring owners cos they 'know the truth'. Tesla topped consumer reports satisfaction tables? These are owners who are well aware of the ownership issues. Sunk cost fallacy?

"Tesla customers are more satisfied than those of any other auto brand for the third consecutive year, according to Consumer Reports, which placed Tesla first on its 2019 list of auto brands ranked by owner satisfaction."

A link for Hyphen!

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-tops-consume...

[Heres Johnny]

Sambucket said:

In response to Johnny's point that Tesla owners are less happy than aspiring owners cos they 'know the truth'. Tesla topped consumer reports satisfaction tables? These are owners who are well aware of the ownership issues. Sunk cost fallacy?

"Tesla customers are more satisfied than those of any other auto brand for the third consecutive year, according to Consumer Reports, which placed Tesla first on its 2019 list of auto brands ranked by owner satisfaction."

A link for Hyphen!

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-tops-consume...

Tesla owners also rated the cars the most unreliable and by a long long way

https://www.businessinsider.com/survey-uk-drivers-...

I've no problem with a balanced argument - there is just very little on here.

[anonymous-user]

Heres Johnny said:

Tesla owners also rated the cars the most unreliable and by a long long way

https://www.businessinsider.com/survey-uk-drivers-...

I've no problem with a balanced argument - there is just very little on here.

Doesn’t that make the satisfaction results all the more remarkable? Owners love their cars more than any other brand, despite having issues?

hugely significant for brand value.

Note this owner surveys, not wannabes

[AstonZagato]

Smiljan said:

I'm not sure on the age demographic but at least in the states for the S and X, the average owner age is 54 years old (against the country average age of 38). 71% of those are male.

For the Model 3 it's 46 years old with 84% male.

Seems the middle age man is their most common buyer.

Haven't found any stats for the UK but I'd imagine given the price of the cars it'd be similar.

Whenever I use my wife's Tesla, the reactions from Millennials are the most positive. Young lads saying it is their dream car (I really think they need to get better dreams, to be honest). Women are the next most positive - "what is it?", "I've heard about these", etc.
The most negative are 50-something men - "milk float", "how long does the lead need to be?", etc.
However, I suppose the price of the car makes it a baby boomer toy rather than one a millennial can entertain. And usually, men have the purchasing power.
My wife bought the car (or decided she wanted it) but my name is on the V5. Not because it was my money (she earns more than enough to afford it) but rather, I do the "car stuff" - docs, insurance, service bookings, MOT, etc.

[Heres Johnny]

Sambucket said:

Heres Johnny said:

Tesla owners also rated the cars the most unreliable and by a long long way

https://www.businessinsider.com/survey-uk-drivers-...

I've no problem with a balanced argument - there is just very little on here.

Doesn’t that make the satisfaction results all the more remarkable? People love their cars more than any other brand, despite having issues?

hugely significant for brand value.

To a point it is remarkable, but its not all great, thats the real point.

You examine the change of buyer group and the different needs of the early majority v innovtor and early adopter - this was written a while ago fortelling the problems that were going to happen and guess what, a lot of those early majority and not getting the same feeling. You see posts on "I can't get my car to read text messages" - err... thats because it can't... "the self driving thing I can't find it".. err.. because it doesn't exist. Early adopters, those answering that article a while back were the ones who enjoyed software updates constantly tweaking, the ones buying today expect it to work

Put this another way - if you're happy to buy something and then spend 2 years with it slowly being delivered, release by release you're an early adopter and you'll have loved the Tesla experience. If you expect something you've bought to be there when you pick it up, you won't be.

https://tesla-info.com/blog/tesla-and-crossing-the...

So I bet if they did it again it would be different - the owners group has become 75% a moaning place for delivery and service issues.And I bet 90% of owners with a 85 battery thats had the capacity slashed won;t be voting positively

You can't even book a service appointment now - its gone fromt he app and gone from online and of course you can't call - I'm trying to book an appointment right now.

Good stuff does happen, the cars if you haven't an issue are great in many respect, the rangers if you can get one are so convenient, its just not all one sided good news.

Do you own one and if so how long have you had it? Has the car phantom braked on you when doing 70 mph on the motorway creating a sudden panic and prayers the car behind is awake?

Edited by Heres Johnny on Thursday 12th September 15:09

[Frimley111R]

Smiljan said:

I'm not sure on the age demographic but at least in the states for the S and X, the average owner age is 54 years old (against the country average age of 38). 71% of those are male.

For the Model 3 it's 46 years old with 84% male.

Seems the middle age man is their most common buyer.

Haven't found any stats for the UK but I'd imagine given the price of the cars it'd be similar.

As said, the S and X are expensive and it often takes later life finances to afford such cars. Similarly the Model 3 is more attainable for younger people in the their 40s.

This is all new tech and there is a greater interest in such tech and cars from males and so this is not surprising.

[anonymous-user]

Tesla won the owner survey 3 years in a row so will be interesting to see if they can keep satisfaction with even higher model 3 volume next year.

Though anecdotally most uk 3 buyers follow the same pattern. Highly pleased with the car when it works, but low rated reliability, service and comms.

So not sure why you think it will be any different going forward?

[Heres Johnny]

Sambucket said:

Tesla won the owner survey 3 years in a row so will be interesting to see if they can keep satisfaction with even higher model 3 volume next year.

Though anecdotally most uk 3 buyers follow the same pattern. Highly pleased with the car when it works, but low rated reliability, service and comms.

So not sure why you think it will be any different going forward?

Because the buyer type is changing from an early adopter to the early majority. If you don't understand these terms then take a google, and if you ps off the early majority with a poor buying experience or poor service, you will inhibit growth significantly as that knocks on the the late majority.

Not all buyers have the same expectations, far from it.

[ntiz]

Heres Johnny said:

Smiljan said:

, owners have a foot in to defend them because they spent a lot of money on their product..

I thought it was the opposite - the wannabe owners defend Tesla at all costs and the people who actually own then try to temper the hysteria of the former because they know the reality

This pretty well sums it up.

I have had the strangest situation with a random guy walked up to me started asking me what it was like to have the best car in the world.

When I said it’s pretty good but does have some issues he got annoyed and walked off really weird.

[Heres Johnny]

ntiz said:

Heres Johnny said:

Smiljan said:

, owners have a foot in to defend them because they spent a lot of money on their product..

I thought it was the opposite - the wannabe owners defend Tesla at all costs and the people who actually own then try to temper the hysteria of the former because they know the reality

This pretty well sums it up.

I have had the strangest situation with a random guy walked up to me started asking me what it was like to have the best car in the world.

When I said it’s pretty good but does have some issues he got annoyed and walked off really weird.

He wasn't called Rob was he?

[anonymous-user]

Not an owner yet. Got a delivery date of 1st week of Oct so I’ve been paying a lot of attention to service issues and a bit worried.

Had an extended test drive in rural Scotland, enough to know yes the tacc sucks. Car was great otherwise though in all respects.

My general impression from the owner forums is that the model 3 quality is good enough to outweigh reliability issues. Time will tell

But to get back to the fight, my main point is the average Tesla buyer is not naive to the risks and issues with the car. There is not blind hysteria. But rather (perhaps naive) an educated cautious optimism that the pros will outweigh the cons over eh long term.

A lot of Tesla buyers are stretch buyers so it’s not a purchase they are just making off the cuff. Lots of research is involved.

Same goes for investors. Traders aside. The majority of Tesla shares are owned by larger investors who presumably are immune to the hype and genuinely see Tesla as a long term investment

[Heres Johnny]

Sambucket said:

Not an owner yet. Got a delivery date of 1st week of Oct so I’ve been paying a lot of attention to service issues and a bit worried.

Had an extended test drive in rural Scotland, enough to know yes the tacc sucks. Car was great otherwise though in all respects.

My general impression from the owner forums is that the model 3 quality is good enough to outweigh reliability issues. Time will tell

But to get back to the fight, my main point is the average Tesla buyer is not naive to the risks and issues with the car. There is not blind hysteria. But rather (perhaps naive) an educated cautious optimism that the pros will outweigh the cons over eh long term.

A lot of Tesla buyers are stretch buyers so it’s not a purchase they are just making off the cuff. Lots of research is involved.

Same goes for investors. Traders aside. The majority of Tesla shares are owned by larger investors who presumably are immune to the hype and genuinely see Tesla as a long term investment

Balanced post - and I agree, we could have slightly different leanings on some of the points, some buyers have rejected the car, others have been happy, some have turned up to collect and the car wasn't there. Every buyer is a different and I'd say you are rightly on the more due dilligence end of the spectrum, there are many more now than ever before who just don't understand the basics or the what they are buying. Listen to Rob or Gang and you'd think the world was perfect, hopefully you're getting a more balanced view. Knowing things like paint defects need to be noted within 100 miles of collection is useful knowledge

[SWoll]

Heres Johnny said:

He wasn't called Rob was he?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 12th September 16:02

[DonkeyApple]

ntiz said:

This pretty well sums it up.

I have had the strangest situation with a random guy walked up to me started asking me what it was like to have the best car in the world.

When I said it’s pretty good but does have some issues he got annoyed and walked off really weird.

I’ve had that a couple of times over the years with a particular car of mine. They’ve approached me, asked my opinion of ownership and when I haven’t responded that it’s the greatest single experience of my life they have behaved as if I’ve just shat all over their dreams.

It’s basically fanaticism. But it has its value to a business and you can see with Tesla that a very significant number of young men don’t give a flying fk about the environment or electric cars, they just want a Tesla. That’s good for business and why the Tesla brand is currently so incredibly valuable.

Their issue is how much time they have to deliver a product that these simpletons can afford because unlike Rolex or Apple its much harder for them to job out a bottom of the range product to harvest all that sucker cash that’s desperate to be hurled at them.

[ntiz]

DonkeyApple said:

ntiz said:

This pretty well sums it up.

I have had the strangest situation with a random guy walked up to me started asking me what it was like to have the best car in the world.

When I said it’s pretty good but does have some issues he got annoyed and walked off really weird.

I’ve had that a couple of times over the years with a particular car of mine. They’ve approached me, asked my opinion of ownership and when I haven’t responded that it’s the greatest single experience of my life they have behaved as if I’ve just shat all over their dreams.

It’s basically fanaticism. But it has its value to a business and you can see with Tesla that a very significant number of young men don’t give a flying fk about the environment or electric cars, they just want a Tesla. That’s good for business and why the Tesla brand is currently so incredibly valuable.

Their issue is how much time they have to deliver a product that these simpletons can afford because unlike Rolex or Apple its much harder for them to job out a bottom of the range product to harvest all that sucker cash that’s desperate to be hurled at them.

I have had a few thinking about it now the guy that approaches me wearing a Tesla hat and jacket but turned to not be an owner was the strangest.

It is interesting how things have changed. When I first got my car all the owners were incredibly knowledgeable about the tech to the point of discussing the back end of the software and how it was coded, far beyond my simple mind. I was chatting to the chap who always looks after me when my car is in the service centre. I have got to know him quite well so is a bit more open, explained how they get a lot of phone calls within the first month now with customers pissed off because they aren’t getting the 350-380 miles they thought they were getting and it gets much worse during the winter.

Seems a lot more people are buying them as they would any other car with out the deep research. Which was always going to happen just a matter of dealing with perceptions and reality.

I also blame the sales men who don’t seem to have used the cars for much more than 10 mins at a time themselves. Which again when I bought mine the sales guy was using his to go to Switzerland like I do so showed me exactly the route to do it. Which of course really helped selll the car for me.

[DonkeyApple]

Tesla would have had a lot more business if the crypto market hadn’t collapsed.

[hyphen]

Smiljan said:

hyphen said:

Smiljan said:

Apparently the Model S currently at the Nurburgring manage 1/2 lap yesterday before breaking down. Still Muskrat has now said they aren't actually trying to set a record so all good.

You have a terrible habit of not posting links to the sources

Doesn't mean I'm making it up though does it, off to twitter with you and type "Tesla" "Nurburgring".

Lots and lots of useful links in there for you.

Wasn't at all saying you were making it up- I meant that it saves others time if they can read the full source without having to search for it

Sambucket said:

A link for Hyphen!

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-tops-consume...

[RobDickinson]

Smiljan said:

It's the cost I'm assuming, plenty of 20 somethings can find £1k for latest phone. Finding £40k for a base Model 3 is a little more difficult. Not saying there aren't any but on average I'd expect the UK buyer ages to be similar.

Plenty of posts on reddit with 20 somethings buying a model 3, first car etc n how the fk do they afford them?