Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[Burwood]

hyphen said:

Burwood said:

Sambucket said:

It's a wild guess on residuals tho right now?

For the M3 sure but not the 3 series. My FIL can attest to that. He's had 3 of them over 6 years and took a bath on all of them. Current 330 cost(after hard bargaining lol) £36 (rrp 42k) and is currently 15 months old with 9k on the clock. he enquired about the new model and was offered £18.5k. He wasn't impressed.

The new G20 is a great looking car but I fear it will plummet in values too

How much would the lease cost have been? As your FIL is probably in the minority of buyers who actually purchase the car.

Also if Model 3 sells by the bucket loads, then the used prices will be much cheaper. Currently it's based on the assumption that there won't be that many to choose from I would guess.

Fundamentally, your FIL needs to understand that the government is pushing EVs, they are giving the subsidies and lower taxes etc to make them attractive, so it's not a fair fight.

Once EVs are bigger sellers, the tax and other benefits will be cut back, so if an ev suits his lifestyle, then make hay while the sun shines.

Edited by hyphen on Friday 13th September 17:49

He will never buy an EV. He is the old school belligerent type when I saw the M340 I thought it would suit me but forget about it. 50k after a decent discount and a quick check albeit previous model 2019 cars selling for 26k.

Lease costs on 3 series always been high due to the brutal depreciation.
Great 1 year old buy?

[Dave Hedgehog]

jamoor said:

Gandahar said:

That top 5 is worrying when Japan gets going electric cars. The do know their electricals.....

So do chinese!

China has the potential to upset the car market, certainly the don’t care about brand segment

They seam to be working on a lot more EVs than most

[SWoll]

Love all the headlines that say "Tesla airbags didn't inflate" suggesting none of them worked . It was side airbags that didn't go off in in a front end collision.

They might be right and Tesla at fault but far too many stories like this where due to the publicity around Tesla people immediately blame the car looking to cash in and the press are only too happy to write hit pieces.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 14th September 09:07

[SWoll]

Burwood said:

He will never buy an EV. He is the old school belligerent type

And he doesn't have his own PH account? Sounds like he'd fit in perfectly around here.

[hyphen]

Above anything, it is a clear example of why Tesla is a crap business.

A crash at speed? deploy and crumple everything in the car. As come repair time, more profit from parts to be bought by the repair company and/or a new car purchased.

Incompetent Tesla

[Heres Johnny]

Witchfinder said:

hyphen said:

What does CPO stand for?

"Cherished Pre Owned" - Tesla speak for approved used.

Thought it was certified (as in manufacturer certified the quality), but same difference

Tesla have slashed the checks and repairs they now do on used cars, it’s now just mechanically sound and all recalls done, damage to paint etc is generally not fixed, they just send you a picture because you can’t physically see the car before purchase.

[98elise]

hyphen said:

DonkeyApple said:

Well observed Rob. The likes of GM can financially handle and mechanically handle a recall. I’m actually quite surprised that you’ve highlighted one of the major structural risks that Tesla is currently running. Good for you. Shows you’re not a complete loon and do appreciate some of the true core issues.

A George Washington University professor is comatose after his Model 3 crashed.

The families lawyers claims that the side airbags didn't go off, and Tesla isn't cooperating.

Tesla claim depending on nature of impact the airbags may not have needed to, investigation will be interesting.

Seems strange they didn't fire, as the pic of car indicates a massive impact.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-airb...

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 14th September 07:14

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 14th September 07:16

Side bags don't go off on most cars in a straight front impact. They only go off on a side impact or at an angle.

Plenty of EuroNCAP crashes on YouTube confirm that.

[DonkeyApple]

SWoll said:

Love all the headlines that say "Tesla airbags didn't inflate" suggesting none of them worked . It was side airbags that didn't go off in in a front end collision.

They might be right and Tesla at fault but far too many stories like this where due to the publicity around Tesla people immediately blame the car looking to cash in and the press are only too happy to write hit pieces.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 14th September 09:07

It’s swimgs and roundabouts though really, as the same press loves to write pro guff just as much.

In regards to this particular aspect the underlying, logical risk is that Tesla doesn’t have the cash or infrastructure to deal with a major issue that would require a recall.

[Burwood]

SWoll said:

Burwood said:

He will never buy an EV. He is the old school belligerent type

And he doesn't have his own PH account? Sounds like he'd fit in perfectly around here.

[SWoll]

DonkeyApple said:

It’s swimgs and roundabouts though really, as the same press loves to write pro guff just as much.

In regards to this particular aspect the underlying, logical risk is that Tesla doesn’t have the cash or infrastructure to deal with a major issue that would require a recall.

Negative stuff always gets more clicks though. Positive only really appeals to fans whereas everyone reads the negative headlines. Human nature.

[Gandahar]

If Tesla get rid of the steering wheel they won't need at least one airbag. That saves on manufacturing costs both ways.

[Gandahar]

SWoll said:

DonkeyApple said:

It’s swimgs and roundabouts though really, as the same press loves to write pro guff just as much.

In regards to this particular aspect the underlying, logical risk is that Tesla doesn’t have the cash or infrastructure to deal with a major issue that would require a recall.

Negative stuff always gets more clicks though. Positive only really appeals to fans whereas everyone reads the negative headlines. Human nature.

I think the far too positively positive thoughts of the Tesla disciples has lead to a backlash on grumpy folk.

it's never been a good thing to say" this thing I support is perfect and what I don't like is universally bad". People who see good and bad just then want to hoist you up by your own petard at any opportunity just to try and show bias up.

[RobDickinson]

Gandahar said:

If Tesla get rid of the steering wheel they won't need at least one airbag. That saves on manufacturing costs both ways.

Uh....

[Gandahar]

hyphen said:

Witchfinder said:

Good news for second hand buyers though. Would you want to buy a second hand Tesla from anyone other than Tesla? You'll be paying through the nose for it, Tesla are notorious for manipulating the second hand market.

Currently the buyer demand for model X and S is significantly lower due to Model 3. And once Y comes out, the same may happen to the 3.

Edited by hyphen on Friday 13th September 17:51

That's a good summary for the model 3 in relation to the S, not sure about the X, it is rather different. If the 3 was a hatchback maybe more so.

The Model 3 is cheaper and can still do 3.2s to 60, so if acceleration is your bag then this will do. The interior is more modern, it looks less like an old Mondeo.

However a big hit might be this ego attempt at the Nurburgring record by Tesla. They have promised a new extra motor for the S,. new suspension etc for the Plaid model, plus at least some larger "fenders" to make it look more sporty, in 2020. So will that impact sales of S in 2019 into 2020 when it is already old hat design wise?

Releasing details of a better refresh car 1 year ahead is rather dumb.....

[Gandahar]

Witchfinder said:

hyphen said:

What does CPO stand for?

"Cherished Pre Owned" - Tesla speak for approved used.

SODs

Smells of dogs.

You can tell what sort of person I deal with for my cherished previously owned example.

[Gandahar]

hyphen said:

What does CPO stand for?


And if it's a model 3, is that a C3PO?

PS sorry for slightly spamming the EV formum with about 20 posts in 10 mins

[tr3a]

Can we all appreciate for a moment how this thread started with the premise that Tesla was 'unlikely to survive'?

I've just sold my TR, which went halfway to the outright purchase of a Tesla Model 3. No regrets whatsoever.

I'm letting as many people drive it as I can, because it's the driving that sold me. Or rather: the pathetic joke of my 'modern' daily dinosaur juice burner after I drove a Tesla for the first time. It convinced me that the internal combustion engine is well past its sell by date and that we should stop burning stuff asap - or we ourselves are unlikely to survive.

[jamoor]

tr3a said:

Can we all appreciate for a moment how this thread started with the premise that Tesla was 'unlikely to survive'?

I've just sold my TR, which went halfway to the outright purchase of a Tesla Model 3. No regrets whatsoever.

I'm letting as many people drive it as I can, because it's the driving that sold me. Or rather: the pathetic joke of my 'modern' daily dinosaur juice burner after I drove a Tesla for the first time. It convinced me that the internal combustion engine is well past its sell by date and that we should stop burning stuff asap - or we ourselves are unlikely to survive.

But you can't complete a drive from Aberdeen to Nice with 2 hours notice without stopping for electricity every 45 minutes, how will you cope?

[Heres Johnny]

tr3a said:

Can we all appreciate for a moment how this thread started with the premise that Tesla was 'unlikely to survive'?

I've just sold my TR, which went halfway to the outright purchase of a Tesla Model 3. No regrets whatsoever.

I'm letting as many people drive it as I can, because it's the driving that sold me. Or rather: the pathetic joke of my 'modern' daily dinosaur juice burner after I drove a Tesla for the first time. It convinced me that the internal combustion engine is well past its sell by date and that we should stop burning stuff asap - or we ourselves are unlikely to survive.

The share price is down about 30% since the thread started
Musk himself has admitted they have been close to going under a few times
He has also been done for a variety of misdemeanours in his role as CEO

I think the question was a very valid question back then, and I don't think they're out of the woods so still valid today.

The thread is not whether the car is any good, its whether the company can sustain the costs associated with delivering it and doing all the other things a responsbile company has to do. At the moment, the latter is still proving to be a challenge.

[otolith]

hyphen said:

Above anything, it is a clear example of why Tesla is a crap business.

A crash at speed? deploy and crumple everything in the car. As come repair time, more profit from parts to be bought by the repair company and/or a new car purchased.

Incompetent Tesla

“I was injured by a side air bag that went off unnecessarily in a head on collision <compo face>”