My Tesla Used Inventory Buying Experience
Discussion
dmsims said:
ntiz said:
My father had the worst case scenario first day he had the car tried to drive to his house in Switzerland on Xmas day banked on 200 miles range. Head wind, rain and low temperatures saw him run out of charge and spend Xmas day in a cheap hotel getting his recovered. Little bit of info would have gone a long way.
Are you serious ?So he ignored all the messages and information that the car presented?
He didn’t ignore the signs he realised wasnt going to make it found a hotel and phoned Tesla. In fairness they picked it up took it away and brought it back charged in the morning to continue.
Tesla #Batterygate is on the cusp of been a major issue for alot of cars, if the OP hasn't committed might be wise to walk away.
It appears whilst investigating a rare battery fire earlier this year Tesla found something they didn't expect and didn't like with how older packs are charging.
Tesla has now 'pushed' out a software up date that has dropped the usable energy in 85kWh cars from 70kWh+ to below 65kWh in some cases. Even 90kWh pack owners are reporting a drop in usable capacity to nearly the same as our 75kWh pack.
So far this software limit seems to have been put on the gen1 battery packs running Tesla's previous cell chemistry, so original 60/70/85/90 packs. Most 75 packs and current 100 packs have different chemistry, and Model 3 different again, however that may change.
Tesla have said nothing officially, but as the saying goes 'theres no smoke without fire', and a drop in 10kWh+ of usable energy overnight via a software update is causing ALOT of smoke!
Buyers beware!!
It appears whilst investigating a rare battery fire earlier this year Tesla found something they didn't expect and didn't like with how older packs are charging.
Tesla has now 'pushed' out a software up date that has dropped the usable energy in 85kWh cars from 70kWh+ to below 65kWh in some cases. Even 90kWh pack owners are reporting a drop in usable capacity to nearly the same as our 75kWh pack.
So far this software limit seems to have been put on the gen1 battery packs running Tesla's previous cell chemistry, so original 60/70/85/90 packs. Most 75 packs and current 100 packs have different chemistry, and Model 3 different again, however that may change.
Tesla have said nothing officially, but as the saying goes 'theres no smoke without fire', and a drop in 10kWh+ of usable energy overnight via a software update is causing ALOT of smoke!
Buyers beware!!
https://www.supertipp-online.de/2019/07/30/brandur...
Another older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Another older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 31st July 07:07
gangzoom said:
https://www.supertipp-online.de/2019/07/30/brandur...
Another older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Surely it’s nothing to worry about? After all other manufacturers have terrible quality issues, much worse than tesla’s odd panel gap. Another older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 31st July 07:07
Or so I read; now who posted that?
REALIST123 said:
Surely it’s nothing to worry about? After all other manufacturers have terrible quality issues, much worse than tesla’s odd panel gap.
Or so I read; now who posted that?
So if you had to buy an EV right now, given clearly what we know (or don't know) about how real life lithium ion battery perform, who would you trust more, a manufacture selling barely 1000 EVs per month world wide or one who's entire business is built on EVs and delivering 10-20K per quarter. Or so I read; now who posted that?
Toyota hybrids have a fantastic reputation for reliability but that because you can actually only access 60% the total capacity of the battery in the cars.
The LEAST aggressive EV pack interms of usable kWh to total kWh is the eTron which runs at 87%.
Tesla have access to the biggest real world fleet data on lithium ion battery pack performance by a long long way, clearly they have identified an issue with various packs in older cars and have pro-actively limited usable energy to about 80%. Why they have done this they haven't explained, but personally I would rather own an EV where the manufactures is able to remotely monitor pack status and if needed push out changes to software instantly.
Even if BMW/Nissan/Hyundai wanted to do something similar for safety reasons they cannot, it'll be a case of recalling cars physically, and actually who is keeping an eye on the potential for thermal run-away on older EVs like a 2013/14 Leaf??
I would say given clearly how little we still know about lithium ion cell longevity EVs clearly aren't ready for main stream adoption, I don't mind been an early adopter and keeping an eye on news regarding these kind of issues, but most people just want a car they can get in and drive with no worries about degradation/fires etc. Hence people think its a good idea to try and run these packs down to 0%, an empty EV battery packs bares little resemblance to an empty fuel tank, but that's how the majority of people will treat them, just like petrol cars.
Given the trend is now to stress these packs even more with 200KW+ rapid charging you have to be very brave to assume even the latest Model 3 packs aren't going to have issues.
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 2nd August 08:52
gangzoom said:
So if you had to buy an EV right now, given clearly what we know (or don't know) about how real life lithium ion battery perform, who would you trust more, a manufacture selling barely 1000 EVs per month world wide or one who's entire business is built on EVs and delivering 10-20K per quarter.
I’d buy from the company that can afford to honour their warranty obligations rather than issue a software update taking chunks of capacity away. Well, my post of the month award goes to gangzoom.
We’ve been throwing ideas about for a couple of weeks, some of which were Tesla 85 shaped.
Having looked at batterygate it seems cars with the current software update can no longer do the distances advertised. If we’d jumped it would effectively be 100% unfit for purpose. Rethink required!
Gotta love PH
We’ve been throwing ideas about for a couple of weeks, some of which were Tesla 85 shaped.
Having looked at batterygate it seems cars with the current software update can no longer do the distances advertised. If we’d jumped it would effectively be 100% unfit for purpose. Rethink required!
Gotta love PH
gangzoom said:
https://www.supertipp-online.de/2019/07/30/brandur...
Another older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Problem is there is no way of knowing the history of that car or the condition it was in, it could have had a dodgy repair at some point in its past the same as the OPs rusting carAnother older Model S fire, the older 85kWh packs use to be the benchmark for EV pack performance/longevity, clearly not any more.
To the OP, if this is a 85 pack car walk away!! Infact I would stay away from all used Teslas at the moment till we know how this plays out.
These cars will be worth scrap value if it turns out the packs are fundamentally flawed!! I cannot see Tesla replacing every single 60/85/90 pack without actually going bankrupt.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 31st July 07:07
Tesla have made what a million cars now, I doubt the number that have caught fire is even statistically significant, but 4 people post something on the web and the worlds coming to an end lol
Petrol cars catch fire as well
One thing I don’t get is why buy a well used S when for similar money you can get a M3 perf with ver 3 batteries ?
Dave Hedgehog said:
Problem is there is no way of knowing the history of that car or the condition it was in, it could have had a dodgy repair at some point in its past the same as the OPs rusting car
Tesla have made what a million cars now, I doubt the number that have caught fire is even statistically significant, but 4 people post something on the web and the worlds coming to an end lol
Petrol cars catch fire as well
One thing I don’t get is why buy a well used S when for similar money you can get a M3 perf with ver 3 batteries ?
OP here... the car hasn't had a 'dodgy repair' and I wouldn't call it a 'rusting car'. It had a small area of blistering paintwork due to stone chip damage having caused moisture ingress and oxidisation of the aluminium door panel in that area. Just want to keep things in perspective!Tesla have made what a million cars now, I doubt the number that have caught fire is even statistically significant, but 4 people post something on the web and the worlds coming to an end lol
Petrol cars catch fire as well
One thing I don’t get is why buy a well used S when for similar money you can get a M3 perf with ver 3 batteries ?
Re. Model 3, it's a bit of an 'apples to oranges' comparison. The Model 3 is a smaller car and is a saloon rather than a hatchback and is, to my eyes, not as nice to look at as a Model S. It's also not pitched as a larger luxury car like the Model S, but more an affordable entry-level EV to compete with ICE cars like the 3-series and Audi A4, etc. Also, the Model 3 is very-much an unknown quantity in terms of both reliability and depreciation. Oh, and there's a waiting list. All these were reasons I, personally, wanted a Model S rather than a Model 3. Having said that, the Model 3 does look like a compelling proposition and I did consider it.
The S, to my eyes also, looks far nicer than the 3 - and it's more practical. I think a 3 box saloon works in the US but everywhere else it's a bit of a daft decision for the Model 3 compared to designing a smaller S with the added usefulness of a hatch.
I'd add what's now putting me off is the software induced reduction in kw storage, not the supposed explodey problem. A 60-75kw car simply won't do what we need based on the various route planner sites I've tried.
OP buying an approved used car gets a brand new 4 year / 50k warranty which is pretty impressive I think, plus the balance of the original 8 year battery/motor warranty - the 4 year thing is what was attracting me towards official cars. Enjoy!
I'm still signed up for a test drive - can't wait
I'd add what's now putting me off is the software induced reduction in kw storage, not the supposed explodey problem. A 60-75kw car simply won't do what we need based on the various route planner sites I've tried.
OP buying an approved used car gets a brand new 4 year / 50k warranty which is pretty impressive I think, plus the balance of the original 8 year battery/motor warranty - the 4 year thing is what was attracting me towards official cars. Enjoy!
I'm still signed up for a test drive - can't wait
Dave Hedgehog said:
One thing I don’t get is why buy a well used S when for similar money you can get a M3 perf with ver 3 batteries ?
For me the S, even pre-face lift still looks so much better in photos and real life than the Model 3.The face-lift front end with the right wheels just looks fantastic to me and will remain looking fantastic even in 10 years time, where as the Model 3 already looks like a Noddy car.
I keep on trying to persuade my wife she should go for a used 100D Model S instead of a 3, but like lots of people she has some kind of a mental complex about the size fo the car making it really hard to use on UK roads......Even though every weekend we go everywhere in our X which is bigger and in 37K have yet come across a problem withits size, oh well.
If we don't end up with another kid I'm tempted to swap the X for a S, to my eyse it really does look fab!!!
Edited by gangzoom on Saturday 3rd August 07:52
Purley based on looks I think the still to be released eTron GT will be a strong contender for my cash next especially the rear 3/4, and the XJ EV which will look good given the current XJ.....
Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
- Sadly currently EV used prices are nuts.
gangzoom said:
Purley based on looks I think the still to be released eTron GT will be a strong contender for my cash next especially the rear 3/4, and the XJ EV which will look good given the current XJ.....
Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
Nuts? How so?Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
- Sadly currently EV used prices are nuts.
jamoor said:
gangzoom said:
Purley based on looks I think the still to be released eTron GT will be a strong contender for my cash next especially the rear 3/4, and the XJ EV which will look good given the current XJ.....
Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
Nuts? How so?Model 3 in comparison really only has a face only an accountant halfway through an audit can get excited about - thought in person it does look better. Still the 3 is in a different price bracket to the S/eTron/XJ, but that's why I have normally* always loved buying used versus new.
- Sadly currently EV used prices are nuts.
jamoor said:
Nuts? How so?
2.5 year old Model X with 30k on the clock is the same price as a demo/pre reg iPace.The X should be selling for about £45k by now, so the cheapest used Xs are atleast £10k overpriced.
However when Hyundai want over £30k for a small FWD EV hatchback you can see why used prices on EVs are stubbornly high.
Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 7th August 22:39
gangzoom said:
2.5 year old Model X with 30k on the clock is the same price as a demo/pre reg iPace.
The X should be selling for about £45k by now, so the cheapest used Xs are atleast £10k overpriced.
Do you know why engine powered cars depreciate so much in a short space of time?The X should be selling for about £45k by now, so the cheapest used Xs are atleast £10k overpriced.
What do you think is different about the Tesla which means it will not depreciate like its engine powered equivalents?
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