The push for us to have electric cars

[JonnyVTEC]

Mr E said:

Oh Christ. Not this st again.

Yep, tedious isnt it.

Personal view is that 2030 target is just that, and will slip.

[otolith]

JonnyVTEC said:

Mr E said:

Oh Christ. Not this st again.

Yep, tedious isnt it.

Personal view is that 2030 target is just that, and will slip.

Though there is also this;

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-m...

[J4CKO]

I am looking forward to seeing how it pans out to be honest, I think current EV's tend to be either overblown big expensive things or a bit willfully weird at the lower end, that new VW I3, well it looks a bit gawky for example.

When the batteries get more power dense it could mean cars that are lighter than their ICE equivalents, or at least on a par, and they dont need 600 or more horsepower and have a sub 3 sec zero to sixty time, just decent range, quick charging, be lighter, not look weird and not be more expensive than an ICE car.

I have faith in the engineers, chemists etc to sort it out, the fact I can type this on a small device held in my hand, that takes photos, plays music, makes calls, plays games, does navigation, access the internet, watch films, record hi def video, send messages etc kind of makes me think we will get where EVs need to be, and then some.

[anonymous-user]

otolith said:

JonnyVTEC said:

Mr E said:

Oh Christ. Not this st again.

Yep, tedious isnt it.

Personal view is that 2030 target is just that, and will slip.

Though there is also this;

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-m...

Actually for mid segment passcar, i'm am basically prediciting it's all done by that time anyway, simply because there will be no new ICE models to buy in that segment.


People buy new cars when they

1) fancy a change
2) there is a new one that takes their fancy
3) there old one becomes un-economic to keep (or they think it does, often rather different)


But, let me tell you , today in early July 2021, no manufacturer i know is spending any significant money or time on new pure ICE mid segment platforms, and hardly anything on hybrid either. Which means, with a typical 4 year total PD cycle, come later 2025, there simply won't be new model ICEs in the showrooms, so even if you want one (and i think most won't by then) you wont' be able to actually buy on.........

[av185]

ddom said:

Dog Star said:

<cringe> Are you ten years old? Do you get a "sense of occasion" when you start it up in the morning? Do you enjoy the "drama" of a manual gearbox? God strewth! You sound like Alan Partridge.

I've not got an electric car, but I'm in no way so blinkered that I cannot see that they're the future, are way superior to an ICE car in just about every way - the last objection most people have is range, and that argument is fading fast.

Why is it ‘cringe’ to enjoy the characteristics of ICE? Silverstone Classic, Kop Hill, Bicester Scramble, Goodwood…I’d say that they’re a few who would disagree

Don't often agree with dd but in this instance he is quite clearly correct.

Furthermore anyone who clearly cannot understand an emotional connection maybe from an early age only an ice car can provide where factors such as 'sense of occasion' and 'drama of a manual gearbox' are immediately discounted clearly has already voted for the usual brainwashing automotive EV dilution and really needs to hand in their PH enthusiasts card at once.

[JonnyVTEC]

otolith said:

Though there is also this;

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-m...

Smaller cars i guess, but the material cost for the treatment will have to be simply added into the larger cars people will want for towing.

Smaller cars generally used for short runs etc are ideal BEV material anyway so it might work out just fine. Just I dont like the forced preventation of ICE sales, they haven't done that for smoking.

[Carlososos]

BroadsRS6 said:

Even if i relented in my stance that no single speed silent car will ever offer me what my 760 bhp of twin turbo V10 petrol does; even if i unfortunately had to go and buy electric at some point, HOW do they expect people to afford them?
If we are talking run of the mill cars for the majority of people i see that little electric hatchbacks are like £33,000 to buy new. Who the hell is going to do that other than a select few people? Seriously, if my lad wanted his next car would he take a loan out the amount of half a decent flat in some parts of the UK to get a Nissan Micra electric or would he spend £8,000 on a nice used Fiesta ST and stay debt free?
I realise i am old school in this and apparently i'm dreadful for the environment with the vehicles i own and love, but am i the ONLY person who would never spend a fortune on a poxy little electric hatchback?
If i'm guilty of some terrible sin, shoot me now i guess!

Are you saying they are just to expensive? Electric cars should have cost parity now but don’t because of manufacturers reluctance to outdate their ice vehicles to soon (for them). Electric cars will be cheaper, cheaper to maintain and run. How the government decide to claw back their loses could turn into a bit of a mare but electrification is all positive.

[Mr E]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed. And quite a few of them contain very similar content to this.

EV is happening, like it or not.
You don’t have to buy one (yet). Internal combustion will remain viable for daily use for some time, although will be increasingly marginalised.

Keeping an ICE as a toy/hobby will be possible.

As discussed (numerous times) an EV as daily transport is feasible for a significant proportion of the population now, and will become increasingly normal. There will be a few use cases where ICE is more appropriate.

Things change. Internal combustion had a good run. It’s still utterly bewitching in the right application. But 99% of cars are deathly dull and 99% of people do not care.

Average non petrol heads loved turbo diesel because they’d never actually revved an engine out and the torque from tick over was the first time a car had felt fast.
They’re going to fking love an electric motor.

[Killboy]

Did I miss something? Whats stopping anyone buying a 180hp Ford Fiesta?

[Mr E]

Killboy said:

Did I miss something? Whats stopping anyone buying a 180hp Ford Fiesta?

Nothing yet (other than punitive taxes on the fuel).
In 9 years, quite a bit.

[ATG]

GroundZero said:

I'm a late member of PH, having joined the forum about 2 years ago (previously been a member of other car owner's forums). But understood PH was formed by TVR owners who were genuine driving enthusiasts of rather pure driving cars.

...

It is a shame to see however that there are a 'vocal' few who may have joined over the recent years who seemingly would like nothing more than the end of the internal combustion engine...

I own a TVR. And a diesel 4x4. I've been on PH since before Noah loaded his ark to go cruising round the Norfolk Broads. And I own a secondhand Nissan Leaf and very much doubt I'll ever buy another ICE ... unless I convince myself that I really do need a fifteenth-hand mini tractor. Not sure where this fits into your understanding of reality.

[Mr E]

ATG said:

I own a TVR. And a diesel 4x4. I've been on PH since before Noah loaded his ark to go cruising round the Norfolk Broads. And I own a secondhand Nissan Leaf and very much doubt I'll ever buy another ICE

I own an elise and a massive V8 in a family car. And a used Nissan Leaf. One of these cars is dreadful in almost every regard. It is also the future.

My grandkids are going to be astonished we actually let regular humans drive cars at all.

(Edit; Your grandkids changed to “my” grandkids. Some of us no doubt already have grandkids bombing about in fiesta ST’s and the like)

Edited by Mr E on Monday 5th July 10:57

[Killboy]

Mr E said:

Nothing yet (other than punitive taxes on the fuel).
In 9 years, quite a bit.

Imagine how fast EVs will be in 9 years, if they are already faster than twin turbo V10s.

[Dave Hedgehog]

BroadsRS6 said:

Even if i relented in my stance that no single speed silent car will ever offer me what my 760 bhp of twin turbo V10 petrol does; even if i unfortunately had to go and buy electric at some point, HOW do they expect people to afford them?
If we are talking run of the mill cars for the majority of people i see that little electric hatchbacks are like £33,000 to buy new. Who the hell is going to do that other than a select few people? Seriously, if my lad wanted his next car would he take a loan out the amount of half a decent flat in some parts of the UK to get a Nissan Micra electric or would he spend £8,000 on a nice used Fiesta ST and stay debt free?
I realise i am old school in this and apparently i'm dreadful for the environment with the vehicles i own and love, but am i the ONLY person who would never spend a fortune on a poxy little electric hatchback?
If i'm guilty of some terrible sin, shoot me now i guess!

avg new car price in uk was 34k, ID3s have been offered new from as little as 25k

Its still very early days, in europe only VW is mass producing EVs, most offereings like most of audis etron are very low volume virtue signalling offeres based on ICE cars

as volume production increases prices will come down, or more likely when the chineese start to ship here in volume

The car industry can make cheap EVs if they want (they dont)

GMs offering, and its loaded with options for 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFSJDSh1jmE

[Dave Hedgehog]

JonnyVTEC said:

Mr E said:

Oh Christ. Not this st again.

Yep, tedious isnt it.

Personal view is that 2030 target is just that, and will slip.

if euro7 fuel regs are as strict as being talked about ICE will be killed before 2030

[PH User]

Dave Hedgehog said:

if euro7 fuel regs are as strict as being talked about ICE will be killed before 2030

You say that like it's a good thing

[ddom]

It’s really strange the joy some seem to take in the demise of ICE?

[jason61c]

There's some angry people in the world.

Cant we just live and let live? I'm a massive fan of ICE, however BEV have their place, same as hydrogen, hybrids and others.

remember when they invented the motorcar, it didn't instantly offer 100bhp per ltr and 40mpg.

As a side note, will the OP change his user name when he changes his car?

[Pan Pan Pan]

Carlososos said:

BroadsRS6 said:

Even if i relented in my stance that no single speed silent car will ever offer me what my 760 bhp of twin turbo V10 petrol does; even if i unfortunately had to go and buy electric at some point, HOW do they expect people to afford them?
If we are talking run of the mill cars for the majority of people i see that little electric hatchbacks are like £33,000 to buy new. Who the hell is going to do that other than a select few people? Seriously, if my lad wanted his next car would he take a loan out the amount of half a decent flat in some parts of the UK to get a Nissan Micra electric or would he spend £8,000 on a nice used Fiesta ST and stay debt free?
I realise i am old school in this and apparently i'm dreadful for the environment with the vehicles i own and love, but am i the ONLY person who would never spend a fortune on a poxy little electric hatchback?
If i'm guilty of some terrible sin, shoot me now i guess!

Are you saying they are just to expensive? Electric cars should have cost parity now but don’t because of manufacturers reluctance to outdate their ice vehicles to soon (for them). Electric cars will be cheaper, cheaper to maintain and run. How the government decide to claw back their loses could turn into a bit of a mare but electrification is all positive.

And Negative, dont forget there has to be a negative.

[Pixelpeep Z4]

GroundZero said:

I'm a late member of PH, having joined the forum about 2 years ago (previously been a member of other car owner's forums). But understood PH was formed by TVR owners who were genuine driving enthusiasts of rather pure driving cars.

...

It is a shame to see however that there are a 'vocal' few who may have joined over the recent years who seemingly would like nothing more than the end of the internal combustion engine...

We've been owned 2 evs since 2017. Other half currently drives an e-niro to and from work each day around 50 miles and costs us £46 ish a month in electric to do those 1000ish miles. We also own a 12 year old 3.0 inline 6, twin turbo petrol Z4. Happy to keep that status quo far beyond 2030

it's called 'the best of both worlds' and if people stopped dragging their heals and playing hard done by, they'd realise life is good when you are smart & embrace change.