I'm a dinosaur - educate/change my mind

[SWoll]

Delboy_trotter said:

page3 said:

Have I misunderstood what you’re saying here? You seem to be implying the electricity to power the car should be free?

No not implying electric should be free at all, what I'm highlighting is a mindset and the familiarity, when the Electric message you to say your Bill is going up £15 a month, folks get upset, but are comfortable with the concept of going to a fuel pump and filling a car up, and as a dyed in the wool petrolhead, this is where my head is, I moan about a tank of fuel going up, but accept it as its a process and concept I'm very familiar and comfortable with, however to charge a car at home and have the electric bill go up by an arbitrary £60 a month makes me wince

Arbitrary?

Would you be happier if they sent you a different bill for your EV charging, or perhaps had a pre-payment meter setup purely for that purpose so you can pay upfront as per petrol?

You have a very odd take on this.

[SWoll]

sociopath said:

I have a 5.7L V8 cobra replica

My wife has a Mustang Mach-e

If I want fun I take the V8.
If I want fast I'll take the EV.

Phenomenal performance.
Souless as Rees-Mogg.

I'd add comfort, refinement, ease of use to the list in favour of the EV. They do all of the boring stuff very well, hence their suitability for the daily grind.

Agree though, in 3 years I've never picked up the keys just to go for a drive for the hell of it.

[McAndy]

Perhaps go to the Fully Charged EV show at Farnborough airport at the end of April/beginning of May. Excellent opportunity to get your bum into cars, even have test drives in many. I went last year; I shall likely go again this year.

Many interesting points on this thread, as usual. My own experience: wife has EV, I still have ICE. I intend for my next car to be EV. I can't afford/justify a third car, so if I want some ICE fun I'll book a weekend rental a couple of times a year. If you have ICE itches to scratch, that model gives you maximum flexibility with none of the overheads/depreciation risks! I have an Atom, Murciélago, and 911 on my list

[Delboy_trotter]

SWoll said:

Arbitrary?

Would you be happier if they sent you a different bill for your EV charging, or perhaps had a pre-payment meter setup purely for that purpose so you can pay upfront as per petrol?

You have a very odd take on this.

Figure plucked from the air - I think its the fear of the unknown/the unfamiliar concept of it all and maybe its my engineer head, but when I look at the cost of a vehicle, I don't just look at the cost of the car, I like to work out the total monthly cost to see if I can afford it - now with an ICE that quantifiable, and tank of fuel will be x based on the capacity/price of fuel, where as never having owned an EV it's not as quantifiable as i've never had one, so it's not as easy to get my head around, and yes if the leccy bill broke it down to household and EV charging it would help, as currently i pay 1/2 the bill, so if i was to charge an EV then id want to know how much extra i'd need to contribute

[JonChalk]

Delboy_trotter said:

SWoll said:

Arbitrary?

Would you be happier if they sent you a different bill for your EV charging, or perhaps had a pre-payment meter setup purely for that purpose so you can pay upfront as per petrol?

You have a very odd take on this.

Figure plucked from the air - I think its the fear of the unknown/the unfamiliar concept of it all and maybe its my engineer head, but when I look at the cost of a vehicle, I don't just look at the cost of the car, I like to work out the total monthly cost to see if I can afford it - now with an ICE that quantifiable, and tank of fuel will be x based on the capacity/price of fuel, where as never having owned an EV it's not as quantifiable as i've never had one, so it's not as easy to get my head around, and yes if the leccy bill broke it down to household and EV charging it would help, as currently i pay 1/2 the bill, so if i was to charge an EV then id want to know how much extra i'd need to contribute

Then rest assured, from another engineer, one who has owned EV for over a year and who actually did and does the maths, EV will be cheaper to run, once you've dealt with purchase price.

A bit of easy research and it's very easily quantifiable....the maths isn't hard.

[plfrench]

Delboy_trotter said:

Figure plucked from the air - I think its the fear of the unknown/the unfamiliar concept of it all and maybe its my engineer head, but when I look at the cost of a vehicle, I don't just look at the cost of the car, I like to work out the total monthly cost to see if I can afford it - now with an ICE that quantifiable, and tank of fuel will be x based on the capacity/price of fuel, where as never having owned an EV it's not as quantifiable as i've never had one, so it's not as easy to get my head around, and yes if the leccy bill broke it down to household and EV charging it would help, as currently i pay 1/2 the bill, so if i was to charge an EV then id want to know how much extra i'd need to contribute

If you get a wallcharger for home (probably a good idea rather than relying on 3-pin), then the app linked to this should allow you to keep trace of EV electricity spend. This is mine for my Pod Point:

[JonnyVTEC]

I can’t believe the crap I’m reading here.

Next week are we doing tying shoelaces or how to make a cup of tea?

Get this, if I use my octopus juice card whilst OUT and ABOUT public charging the cost actually gets added to home bill rather than a debit card payment, I hope too many heads haven’t exploded at that one.

Explains why my 13 year old daughters homework the other week was working out home energy bills..

[anonymous-user]

As an engineer if you can't work out the cost of your EV, god help us all:

1) go look at your electricity bill, and see how much you are paying for a kWh of lecy;
2) Divide that number by 3, that's how much you pay per mile
3) multiply that by your weekly, monthly, or yearly driven distance.

Here is an example

1) i pay 12 pence per kwh

2) 12 divided by 3 is 4 pence (EVs do about 3 ml/kWh)

3) i drive 100 miles a week, so 4pence per mile x 100 miles is £4 a week in lecy


Really not either hard or "worrying" in any way to work out

[TheDeuce]

Volvolover said:

As i said immense arrogance

im championing nothing except saying that for me a BEV as my car in a two car family does not work without major inconvenience

I'd say 50% of my friends at least would be in the same boat as we work mainly at home and make 2-3 long journeys a month either for work and or second holiday homes of a nature where we'd have to charge en route but i'm frequently told that it wouldn't be an inconvenience for me. It most certainly would as I spend about 10 minutes a month to get 1000 miles of range and i cant destination charge ( and wont ever be able to)

Hopefully we get high performance chargers freely available on demand at many locations so it wont bother me then at all. If i could stop and add 100 miles in ten minutes id be happy. However i'm not holding my breath

I o

The fact that 50% of your friends have a similar journey profile to you doesn't make it common. The stats show that the vast majority only exceed 200 miles of driving in one day, or at least one stint, very occasionally - so occasionally that the convenience of EV the other 99% of the time makes up for the occasional delay during a journey to add charge.

But you and your mates are not in that majority, you make several very long journeys a month, apparently to your first and second holiday homes. BUT you also say you're a two car family. So why not just swap the one you don't do the long journeys in to an EV

You can happily keep the long range car an ICE for at least another 15 years whilst you await better battery range/charging network improvements.

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

I'd add comfort, refinement, ease of use to the list in favour of the EV. They do all of the boring stuff very well, hence their suitability for the daily grind.

Agree though, in 3 years I've never picked up the keys just to go for a drive for the hell of it.

Well, no one forced you to choose the e-tron

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

SWoll said:

I'd add comfort, refinement, ease of use to the list in favour of the EV. They do all of the boring stuff very well, hence their suitability for the daily grind.

Agree though, in 3 years I've never picked up the keys just to go for a drive for the hell of it.

Well, no one forced you to choose the e-tron

You see that's where you're wrong. The wife did.

[Delboy_trotter]

Max_Torque said:

As an engineer if you can't work out the cost of your EV, god help us all:

1) go look at your electricity bill, and see how much you are paying for a kWh of lecy;
2) Divide that number by 3, that's how much you pay per mile
3) multiply that by your weekly, monthly, or yearly driven distance.

Here is an example

1) i pay 12 pence per kwh

2) 12 divided by 3 is 4 pence (EVs do about 3 ml/kWh)

3) i drive 100 miles a week, so 4pence per mile x 100 miles is £4 a week in lecy


Really not either hard or "worrying" in any way to work out

Sadly until i started looking into this I've lived in blissful ignorance as to the cost of a unit of electric, i know what the direct debit is, I pay 1/2, so haven't had to think about it/do the maths to begin to even worry about it

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

TheDeuce said:

SWoll said:

I'd add comfort, refinement, ease of use to the list in favour of the EV. They do all of the boring stuff very well, hence their suitability for the daily grind.

Agree though, in 3 years I've never picked up the keys just to go for a drive for the hell of it.

Well, no one forced you to choose the e-tron

You see that's where you're wrong. The wife did.

Fair play. I'd drive a g-whizz if it'd get me an easier life

[Volvolover]

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

As i said immense arrogance

im championing nothing except saying that for me a BEV as my car in a two car family does not work without major inconvenience

I'd say 50% of my friends at least would be in the same boat as we work mainly at home and make 2-3 long journeys a month either for work and or second holiday homes of a nature where we'd have to charge en route but i'm frequently told that it wouldn't be an inconvenience for me. It most certainly would as I spend about 10 minutes a month to get 1000 miles of range and i cant destination charge ( and wont ever be able to)

Hopefully we get high performance chargers freely available on demand at many locations so it wont bother me then at all. If i could stop and add 100 miles in ten minutes id be happy. However i'm not holding my breath

I o

The fact that 50% of your friends have a similar journey profile to you doesn't make it common. The stats show that the vast majority only exceed 200 miles of driving in one day, or at least one stint, very occasionally - so occasionally that the convenience of EV the other 99% of the time makes up for the occasional delay during a journey to add charge.

But you and your mates are not in that majority, you make several very long journeys a month, apparently to your first and second holiday homes. BUT you also say you're a two car family. So why not just swap the one you don't do the long journeys in to an EV

You can happily keep the long range car an ICE for at least another 15 years whilst you await better battery range/charging network improvements.

That’s exactly what I’ve said

[TheDeuce]

Delboy_trotter said:

Max_Torque said:

As an engineer if you can't work out the cost of your EV, god help us all:

1) go look at your electricity bill, and see how much you are paying for a kWh of lecy;
2) Divide that number by 3, that's how much you pay per mile
3) multiply that by your weekly, monthly, or yearly driven distance.

Here is an example

1) i pay 12 pence per kwh

2) 12 divided by 3 is 4 pence (EVs do about 3 ml/kWh)

3) i drive 100 miles a week, so 4pence per mile x 100 miles is £4 a week in lecy


Really not either hard or "worrying" in any way to work out

Sadly until i started looking into this I've lived in blissful ignorance as to the cost of a unit of electric, i know what the direct debit is, I pay 1/2, so haven't had to think about it/do the maths to begin to even worry about it

Fair enough really - until very recently and certianly for non EV drivers, electricity was so cheap as to not pay very much attention to. For years our bill was 'about £30-40 pm' and that's all I could have told you about it.

However, even without taking the time to do any sums, as per MT's example above, the extra cost is well below the established cost of fuel for the ICE the EV will replace - so in man maths terms, it's not worth worrying about

[TheDeuce]

Volvolover said:

TheDeuce said:

Volvolover said:

As i said immense arrogance

im championing nothing except saying that for me a BEV as my car in a two car family does not work without major inconvenience

I'd say 50% of my friends at least would be in the same boat as we work mainly at home and make 2-3 long journeys a month either for work and or second holiday homes of a nature where we'd have to charge en route but i'm frequently told that it wouldn't be an inconvenience for me. It most certainly would as I spend about 10 minutes a month to get 1000 miles of range and i cant destination charge ( and wont ever be able to)

Hopefully we get high performance chargers freely available on demand at many locations so it wont bother me then at all. If i could stop and add 100 miles in ten minutes id be happy. However i'm not holding my breath

I o

The fact that 50% of your friends have a similar journey profile to you doesn't make it common. The stats show that the vast majority only exceed 200 miles of driving in one day, or at least one stint, very occasionally - so occasionally that the convenience of EV the other 99% of the time makes up for the occasional delay during a journey to add charge.

But you and your mates are not in that majority, you make several very long journeys a month, apparently to your first and second holiday homes. BUT you also say you're a two car family. So why not just swap the one you don't do the long journeys in to an EV

You can happily keep the long range car an ICE for at least another 15 years whilst you await better battery range/charging network improvements.

That’s exactly what I’ve said

yea...

[McAndy]

TheDeuce said:

Fair play. I'd drive a g-whizz if it'd get me an easier life

Wash your mouth out!

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

SWoll said:

TheDeuce said:

SWoll said:

I'd add comfort, refinement, ease of use to the list in favour of the EV. They do all of the boring stuff very well, hence their suitability for the daily grind.

Agree though, in 3 years I've never picked up the keys just to go for a drive for the hell of it.

Well, no one forced you to choose the e-tron

You see that's where you're wrong. The wife did.

Fair play. I'd drive a g-whizz if it'd get me an easier life

To be fair she drives it a lot more than I do so difficult to argue, and she did allow me to indulge my inner child with the Model 3 P for 2 years previously despite not being hugely keen initially. She wanted an iPace.

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

Fair enough really - until very recently and certianly for non EV drivers, electricity was so cheap as to not pay very much attention to. For years our bill was 'about £30-40 pm' and that's all I could have told you about it.

However, even without taking the time to do any sums, as per MT's example above, the extra cost is well below the established cost of fuel for the ICE the EV will replace - so in man maths terms, it's not worth worrying about

Had our new tariff from April 1st confirmed yesterday. Off-peak is rising from 14p to 19p kW. At 2.5 miles/kW average and approx 750 miles per month that's £57, or equivalent to 95mpg at current petrol/diesel prices.

The ICE Q7 55 averages 26mpg apparently.

[Fastdruid]

NMNeil said:

I'm hoping the EV's will fix a lot of the problems that are plaguing once respected car brands.
Look at Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac and many others, and their reliability, or rather lack of, is letting them down. But the vast majority of the reliability issues are with the engine and transmission.
On average an ICE engine has over 200 individual parts, an EV motor has about 20, and only a few of those actually move. And as for transmission problems, EV's don't have a transmission as such.
My point is, an ICE car engine wears at a fairly high rate, and with this wear the emissions rise making the MOT test a nerve racking time, and if it fails on emissions there's a good chance it will be consigned to the junkyard because it's uneconomic to repair, even thought the rest of the car is perfectly good and has plenty of life left.
I know someone will say "Battery life" and that's true, but if only one item, albeit, an expensive item, might need replacing every 150,000 miles, it's still far better than the constant engine and transmission maintenance an ICE engine requires.
Just some thoughts that EV's may have more advantages that you might think.

You'd think that but it turns out that EV's are **less** reliable and have more time at the garage before being repaired.

...but a large chunk of those are software issues.

Which is where the "respected" brands fall down (same to be fair as they do normally). The more expensive the vehicle is the *MORE* likely you are to have issues.