Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Burwood said:
We do have powercuts quite often (rural Surrey). And if it doesn't come back on its 4-6 hours. Overhead lines fall down in storms and cars crashing into hardware apparently. Computers go haywire, electric gates won't open and whilst i have an override key it won't work from outside as the key is on front lip of gate! And you can't climb over without losing your manhood 
Hot water/heating is oil but the boiler won't fire without electricity. We use about 30kw/h per day which is strictly appliances/lighting. I would guess that I need maybe 15 Kw. Maybe you don't need many solar panels to power it up over a week or so?
Times are hard when people in Surrey have the weather affecting their electic gatesHot water/heating is oil but the boiler won't fire without electricity. We use about 30kw/h per day which is strictly appliances/lighting. I would guess that I need maybe 15 Kw. Maybe you don't need many solar panels to power it up over a week or so?
Edited by Burwood on Monday 25th November 18:45
Edited by Burwood on Monday 25th November 18:49
I assume "rural" is rather tongue in cheek there. Come to downtrodden Kent where rural means the smell of dung ... or the Medway / Thames of course.
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 30th November 02:19
Witchfinder said:
DonkeyApple said:
Well, it isn’t. And yes, EVs are indulgences for the more affluent. To argue otherwise is to simply not understand how your lifestyle compares to that of the majority.
I'm not going to bother to quote your entire post as it is largely nonsense.Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport. You fail to explain why moving to EVs cannot be done, you just say it as if it is some sort of received knowledge. It is one change amongst many that we are all going to have to make.
Your guff about subsidizing the wealthy is semantics and, again, weasel-words. It's a benefit to the whole of society in terms of health, reduced emissions, trickle down, and ultimately accelerates the move to sustainable transport.
I assume from your condemnation of subsidies for the wealthy that you'll be voting Labour on 12th December?
Just as humanity cannot afford to not go EV, neither can I at the moment with my quest to replace my 2008 diesel Yaris for something that will save me money and also save the planet, both things I am all in favour of.
Hey Witchfinder,
As the car manufacturers have failed to supply a new battery car for about £10k and below could I ask you a favour and send me some money? I don't normally do this sort of thing but as it for saving the planet i am prepared to beg.
You can do it for as little as £99 per month if you wish ....... I am sure we can both get this done !
Hello ?
Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 30th November 02:22
Dave Hedgehog said:
Getting back to reality, good post.The first thing that struck me was the claim
"Tesla 3 has outsold the Toyota Camry in California which is America's best selling car"
But if you follow the link he put up
it actually hasn't. Or am I reading it wrong? The Honda Civic seems to have sold more than both!
Whatever, this was interesting in regards to the general Tesla surviving topic
That Q3 2018 to 2019 figure still makes me think that Model 3 sales have plateaued out and perhaps will go lower into March 2020
That's the big deal here until other cars are sold by Tesla.
Gandahar said:
Hey Witchfinder,
As the car manufacturers have failed to supply a new battery car for about £10k and below could I ask you a favour and send me some money? I don't normally do this sort of thing but as it for saving the planet i am prepared to beg.
You can do it for as little as £99 per month if you wish ....... I am sure we can both get this done !
You can get one with the help of some of those subsidies our taxes pay for. You're welcome.As the car manufacturers have failed to supply a new battery car for about £10k and below could I ask you a favour and send me some money? I don't normally do this sort of thing but as it for saving the planet i am prepared to beg.
You can do it for as little as £99 per month if you wish ....... I am sure we can both get this done !
Reading a random article, and surprised to see that EV charging in the USA can be twice that of a Petrol car.
No wonder no one buys them!
No wonder no one buys them!
car reviewer said:
How much will that cost? Rates vary, but I brought a near-empty E-Tron to my local EA charger, hooked it up to the fastest plug and let it go to full. My charge was a whopping $58.95. Again, that's for about 200 miles of range. For comparison's sake, to get that much range in a 20-mpg SUV you'd need 10 gallons of gas, for an average price right now of just over $30 using premium fuel. Yes, half the cost.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/2019-audi-e-tron-review/jamoor said:
Jeez, why do Tesla spend time and money on things like these which make no difference to a car buyers decision making as they deem the current solutions as meeting their needs.Sambucket said:
I’m glad you don’t work for Tesla. You don’t understand their customers at all. They value constant innovation even if only some of it sticks.
They don't have enough customers, so you should be sad I don't work for them 
If you are a hugely profitable company, and your aim is to overtake your nearest competition then yes, you do stuff like this.
But if you are a loss making company with competition hot on your heels, you focus on what a buyer sees as their most important needs, and ensure you compare favourably to your competititors.
People are notngoing to choose between a Tesla and the Audi as the 'the Tesla wipers are a little bit better'. So why put a team of 5, all earning $120k plus, on such efforts when they could be utilised elsewhere.
Furthermore, traditional automotive manufacturing model has this kinda innovation placed on the shoulders of large parts suppliers who put in the research on stuff like this, and then sell to all the manufacturers. So they can afford to invest as they have the scale.
Tesla spending a million quid, here and there, on stuff like this makes no sense at all.
Lastly, it is clear that Tesla don't know their customers, as a) the sharp drop in sales of S and Y when 3 came alone came as a shock to them, and b) they expected 3 buyers to go for options and higher models, but most went for base spec.
Edited by hyphen on Saturday 30th November 10:37
Gandahar said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Getting back to reality, good post.The first thing that struck me was the claim
"Tesla 3 has outsold the Toyota Camry in California which is America's best selling car"
But if you follow the link he put up
it actually hasn't. Or am I reading it wrong? The Honda Civic seems to have sold more than both!
Whatever, this was interesting in regards to the general Tesla surviving topic
That Q3 2018 to 2019 figure still makes me think that Model 3 sales have plateaued out and perhaps will go lower into March 2020
That's the big deal here until other cars are sold by Tesla.
Overrun by burned out hippy clowns with more money than sense.
jamoor said:
It’s actually s
teTesla have left their drivers with a chronic auto wipe for 3 years, all for the sake of a $1 sensor, and people turn it into a virtue and amazing innovation. It’s a great trick but at some point your luck runs out and people see it for what it is.
hyphen said:
They don't have enough customers, so you should be sad I don't work for them
If you are a hugely profitable company, and your aim is to overtake your nearest competition then yes, you do stuff like this.
But if you are a loss making company with competition hot on your heels, you focus on what a buyer sees as their most important needs, and ensure you compare favourably to your competititors.
People are notngoing to choose between a Tesla and the Audi as the 'the Tesla wipers are a little bit better'. So why put a team of 5, all earning $120k plus, on such efforts when they could be utilised elsewhere.
Furthermore, traditional automotive manufacturing model has this kinda innovation placed on the shoulders of large parts suppliers who put in the research on stuff like this, and then sell to all the manufacturers. So they can afford to invest as they have the scale.
Tesla spending a million quid, here and there, on stuff like this makes no sense at all.
Lastly, it is clear that Tesla don't know their customers, as a) the sharp drop in sales of S and Y when 3 came alone came as a shock to them, and b) they expected 3 buyers to go for options and higher models, but most went for base spec.
It's called development. Start with something small and not saftey critical (Auto wipers) to proove the concept and improve it. Then move onto other stuff.If you are a hugely profitable company, and your aim is to overtake your nearest competition then yes, you do stuff like this.
But if you are a loss making company with competition hot on your heels, you focus on what a buyer sees as their most important needs, and ensure you compare favourably to your competititors.
People are notngoing to choose between a Tesla and the Audi as the 'the Tesla wipers are a little bit better'. So why put a team of 5, all earning $120k plus, on such efforts when they could be utilised elsewhere.
Furthermore, traditional automotive manufacturing model has this kinda innovation placed on the shoulders of large parts suppliers who put in the research on stuff like this, and then sell to all the manufacturers. So they can afford to invest as they have the scale.
Tesla spending a million quid, here and there, on stuff like this makes no sense at all.
Lastly, it is clear that Tesla don't know their customers, as a) the sharp drop in sales of S and Y when 3 came alone came as a shock to them, and b) they expected 3 buyers to go for options and higher models, but most went for base spec.
Edited by hyphen on Saturday 30th November 10:37
I'd bet that next year there will be similar "Deep Nerual Network learning" headlines regarding battery usgage, Auto driving, etc.
Witchfinder said:
I'm not going to bother to quote your entire post as it is largely nonsense.
Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport. You fail to explain why moving to EVs cannot be done, you just say it as if it is some sort of received knowledge.....
Fighting nonsense with nonsense?Humanity cannot afford to wait or delay the transition to low emissions transport. You fail to explain why moving to EVs cannot be done, you just say it as if it is some sort of received knowledge.....
Whilst it's all very emotive to take the "every little helps", the stats are (I believe) that if we replaced every single private light vehicle in Europe overnight with 'clean' EV, we'd make a fraction of a percent difference to global emissions. It's a dangerous mistake for those pushing the environmental aspect to believe that every change has equal effect and is therefore equally 'urgent'.
Yes, you do go on to acknowledge that this is one of many changes we should make (and I agree we should make them). However, if it is economically or practically difficult to do, there is no reason to force a particular change when it would have minimal effect and have huge cost issues. The "everyone should drive a car like a Tesla" argument is not an argument for saving the planet, it's an argument for rampant consumerism.
If you want to save the planet, everyone should ride a bicycle, and Tesla should be making delivery vans.
WestyCarl said:
It's called development. Start with something small and not saftey critical (Auto wipers) to proove the concept and improve it. Then move onto other stuff.
I'd bet that next year there will be similar "Deep Nerual Network learning" headlines regarding battery usgage, Auto driving, etc.
They started off with the safety critical stuff though, and the concept was proved. Next year there was auto summons that couldn't drive out of a garage...I'd bet that next year there will be similar "Deep Nerual Network learning" headlines regarding battery usgage, Auto driving, etc.
jamoor said:
Is it?Option 1: use tried and tested solution of a rain sensor.
Option 2: spend a lot of time end effort making something that's evidently inferior. Spend more time and effort and make it work about the same. Maybe.
Sure you can impress some geeks, but what actual benefit does it bring to the table?
Some Gump said:
jamoor said:
Is it?Option 1: use tried and tested solution of a rain sensor.
Option 2: spend a lot of time end effort making something that's evidently inferior. Spend more time and effort and make it work about the same. Maybe.
Sure you can impress some geeks, but what actual benefit does it bring to the table?
Long term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
jamoor said:
eliminates the need for a sensor in current and all future cars.
Long term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
One day it might be clever (it also might not) but what about the last 3 years when its not worked/hasn't existed and there is no guarantee this is going to work well? The sensor was not exactly expensiveLong term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
Surely any company that actually cared about their customers would develop something BEFORE they took away the old method on cars (and for the avoidance of doubt Tesla did once upon a time use the cheap sensor they just dropped it when HW2 came out)?
Heres Johnny said:
jamoor said:
eliminates the need for a sensor in current and all future cars.
Long term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
One day it might be clever (it also might not) but what about the last 3 years when its not worked/hasn't existed and there is no guarantee this is going to work well? The sensor was not exactly expensiveLong term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
Surely any company that actually cared about their customers would develop something BEFORE they took away the old method on cars (and for the avoidance of doubt Tesla did once upon a time use the cheap sensor they just dropped it when HW2 came out)?
You need people to use the camera technology for it to get smarter. If Nobody is using it, it won’t get smarter.
Some Gump said:
Is it?
Option 1: use tried and tested solution of a rain sensor.
Option 2: spend a lot of time end effort making something that's evidently inferior. Spend more time and effort and make it work about the same. Maybe.
Sure you can impress some geeks, but what actual benefit does it bring to the table?
Their cameras learning how to see rain (and maybe snow/fog) is a major step forward in their AI. They may seem to be coming at this from weird angles but Elon's gamble on 'if humans can see it so can computers' is starting to pay off. It's just taking longer than he thought but it is working.Option 1: use tried and tested solution of a rain sensor.
Option 2: spend a lot of time end effort making something that's evidently inferior. Spend more time and effort and make it work about the same. Maybe.
Sure you can impress some geeks, but what actual benefit does it bring to the table?
This will lead to them saving major money over other AI systems (other systems use loads more equiptment).
jamoor said:
Heres Johnny said:
jamoor said:
eliminates the need for a sensor in current and all future cars.
Long term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
One day it might be clever (it also might not) but what about the last 3 years when its not worked/hasn't existed and there is no guarantee this is going to work well? The sensor was not exactly expensiveLong term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
Surely any company that actually cared about their customers would develop something BEFORE they took away the old method on cars (and for the avoidance of doubt Tesla did once upon a time use the cheap sensor they just dropped it when HW2 came out)?
You need people to use the camera technology for it to get smarter. If Nobody is using it, it won’t get smarter.
The smart way would be to be capturing the sensor activity controlling the wipers with the cameras recording, you then learning from what the sensors do and correlate with the pictures, and you’d also learn from drivers manually intervening as that would statistically be a sign the sensor has it wrong, that way the model will eventually be more intelligent than the sensor. When, and only when, the model is smarter than the sensor and predicts a manual wipe etc you start using the model. You’d train a model to be half decent with maybe 1k cars within 3 months, assuming it rains where you are.
You certainly don’t need 3 years and 100k+ drivers to train a model to work out if it’s raining
But I admire your blind faith in the company.
Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 30th November 16:45
Heres Johnny said:
jamoor said:
Heres Johnny said:
jamoor said:
eliminates the need for a sensor in current and all future cars.
Long term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
One day it might be clever (it also might not) but what about the last 3 years when its not worked/hasn't existed and there is no guarantee this is going to work well? The sensor was not exactly expensiveLong term is makes sense to use the existing hardware, why bother having a sensor when the cameras will do the same job?
Surely any company that actually cared about their customers would develop something BEFORE they took away the old method on cars (and for the avoidance of doubt Tesla did once upon a time use the cheap sensor they just dropped it when HW2 came out)?
You need people to use the camera technology for it to get smarter. If Nobody is using it, it won’t get smarter.
The smart way would be to be capturing the sensor activity controlling the wipers with the cameras recording, you then learning from what the sensors do and correlate with the pictures, and you’d also learn from drivers manually intervening as that would statistically be a sign the sensor has it wrong, that way the model will eventually be more intelligent than the sensor. When, and only when, the model is smarter than the sensor and predicts a manual wipe etc you start using the model. You’d train a model to be half decent with maybe 1k cars within 3 months, assuming it rains where you are.
You certainly don’t need 3 years and 100k+ drivers to train a model to work out if it’s raining
But I admire your blind faith in the company.
Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 30th November 16:45
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