Real world Plug In Hybrid range...
Discussion
My wife has just bought a 3 year old Mini Countryman S E plug in hybrid. just 15,000 miles on it. Nice thing if a tad expensive!!!!! She just phoned me as this morning she tested how far she could go on full electric mode on a FULL CHARGE...... Fair enough the ambient temp was about 5 degrees and she had the LED headlights on and the heater, but she managed just 9 MILES on B-roads around 50mph max before it was fully depleted and the petrol engine kicked in..... She was driving not much more than 12 minutes I guess. Shocking really.
It's not shocking at all. It's saving money by buying a worst of all worlds PHEV which comes with a tiny battery and an equally unimpressive engine. The battery is there to eak out overall MPG and emissions for the sake of cheaper road tax/BIK and helping the manufacturer limit their EU emissions fines for average emissions across all cars they sell. PHEV is not intended to offer meaningful electric only range at all - other than the more expensive ones, but they're more expensive because they have a more expensive and larger battery pack..
Furyblade_Lee said:
My wife has just bought a 3 year old Mini Countryman S E plug in hybrid. just 15,000 miles on it. Nice thing if a tad expensive!!!!! She just phoned me as this morning she tested how far she could go on full electric mode on a FULL CHARGE...... Fair enough the ambient temp was about 5 degrees and she had the LED headlights on and the heater, but she managed just 9 MILES on B-roads around 50mph max before it was fully depleted and the petrol engine kicked in..... She was driving not much more than 12 minutes I guess. Shocking really.
I'm curious, did you not do your homework before purchasing the car? 5 mins on the net reveals what the real world range is of these cars in winter from long term tests and owners reviews. raspy said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
My wife has just bought a 3 year old Mini Countryman S E plug in hybrid. just 15,000 miles on it. Nice thing if a tad expensive!!!!! She just phoned me as this morning she tested how far she could go on full electric mode on a FULL CHARGE...... Fair enough the ambient temp was about 5 degrees and she had the LED headlights on and the heater, but she managed just 9 MILES on B-roads around 50mph max before it was fully depleted and the petrol engine kicked in..... She was driving not much more than 12 minutes I guess. Shocking really.
I'm curious, did you not do your homework before purchasing the car? 5 mins on the net reveals what the real world range is of these cars in winter from long term tests and owners reviews. Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Thursday 27th January 14:44
Furyblade_Lee said:
No need to dig me out mate, it is not my car it is my wife’s. She bought it herself. But as you ask, the literature and online reports I have read, some say they were getting 15-22 miles from a single charge, and some official stats say 25 is possible. But I would obviously never believe 25. Just shocked at 9 that is all.
I wasn't having a dig at you, simply asking what due diligence was done prior to purchase. I've seen reports of 11 miles range in winter in a road test, so 9 isn't too far off from that. What this reveals is that whether it's a EV or PHEV that a consumer is buying, in addition to the WLTP stats on the advert, the adverts should legally be required to mention the estimated real world range in winter/summer/city/motorway etc so that consumers can make an informed choice at the point of purchase.
raspy said:
What this reveals is that whether it's a EV or PHEV that a consumer is buying, in addition to the WLTP stats on the advert, the adverts should legally be required to mention the estimated real world range in winter/summer/city/motorway etc so that consumers can make an informed choice at the point of purchase.
Pretty sure they are not only not legally obliged to do so, but actually banned from doing so. I think manufacturers can only advertise the WLTP figures (which do include urban and extra-urban figures, but not range at different temperatures)? Same with MPG for internal combustion powered cars.
I've had two PHEVs in which I'll quite frequently take my wife to work on an early shift. It's a 7 mile round trip, and being done at 06:00, it's not unusual for winter temperatures to be close to or below freezing.
In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
I can't comment on the others, maybe they are really inefficient. Was the battery totally drained (well at the 15% or so it's allowed to get to) when the engine came on or was the throttle pressed too hard?
I have an Ioniq PHEV. I chose it very deliberately. I have a daily 25 mile urban commute round trip with a quick 50mph bit and a bit hilly at one end.
When it's sub zero I get home with 8 miles left, in the summer 12. The engine never comes on (unless I floor it).
It claims 37 miles on battery and unless I'm over 60mph then it will always do that.
I didn't get the electric one as I also do fairly frequent long journeys which it does on petrol at 60mpg. It's not an exciting car but for my boring daily grind it's great.
PHEV suits where it suits. For many the electric version would be better.
I believe some have a pitiful range. Find your daily requirements/distance, add 25% buffer and that's the one to get.
To add, in 2.5 years nothing's ever broken.
I have an Ioniq PHEV. I chose it very deliberately. I have a daily 25 mile urban commute round trip with a quick 50mph bit and a bit hilly at one end.
When it's sub zero I get home with 8 miles left, in the summer 12. The engine never comes on (unless I floor it).
It claims 37 miles on battery and unless I'm over 60mph then it will always do that.
I didn't get the electric one as I also do fairly frequent long journeys which it does on petrol at 60mpg. It's not an exciting car but for my boring daily grind it's great.
PHEV suits where it suits. For many the electric version would be better.
I believe some have a pitiful range. Find your daily requirements/distance, add 25% buffer and that's the one to get.
To add, in 2.5 years nothing's ever broken.
Kermit power said:
I've had two PHEVs in which I'll quite frequently take my wife to work on an early shift. It's a 7 mile round trip, and being done at 06:00, it's not unusual for winter temperatures to be close to or below freezing.
In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
Wait... So your Volvo makes the trip using only the electric motor - but also the ICE is running to generate heat? In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
TheDeuce said:
Kermit power said:
I've had two PHEVs in which I'll quite frequently take my wife to work on an early shift. It's a 7 mile round trip, and being done at 06:00, it's not unusual for winter temperatures to be close to or below freezing.
In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
Wait... So your Volvo makes the trip using only the electric motor - but also the ICE is running to generate heat? In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
Kermit power said:
TheDeuce said:
Kermit power said:
I've had two PHEVs in which I'll quite frequently take my wife to work on an early shift. It's a 7 mile round trip, and being done at 06:00, it's not unusual for winter temperatures to be close to or below freezing.
In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
Wait... So your Volvo makes the trip using only the electric motor - but also the ICE is running to generate heat? In my old Mercedes C350e, I'd be lucky to still have anything left in the battery for the return journey! Literally it would get maybe 4 miles at best.
My current XC60, on the other hand, will start out showing a 24 mile range, and still be showing 15+ when I get home.
The difference? The Volvo has a petrol-powered auxiliary heater!
It does feel like a bit of a scam by Volvo to be able to advertise (and deliver) 20+ mile battery range in all weathers, and what's really infuriating about it is that unlike the Merc, it won't heat the cabin using battery power at all, so even though the length of my average journey means I could go weeks at a time without needing to use any petrol, I still have to make sure I keep the tank topped up enough to prevent the low fuel warning light from coming on, because that switches off the auxiliary heater to save petrol for the main engine even though I don't need it!
I see what Volvo have done and why though - very clever/sneaky way of increasing range and also MPG figures!
we have a 2018 225XE, same platform as the mini. At this time of year we get around 12-15 miles, but we have found that both driving style, not speed, and pre-conditioning have a significant effect on range that can be achieved. Certainly in cooler/cold temperatures pre-conditioning definitely improves range. Also using the heated seats and steering wheel against trying to heat the whole interior helps. Play with it as, hopefully, you will find a style that suits and gets some improvements in range.
Cheers
Dave
Cheers
Dave
TheDeuce said:
I didn't even know that was a thing in cars. I know motorhomes often have a diesel heater, but not heard of it in a car before.
I see what Volvo have done and why though - very clever/sneaky way of increasing range and also MPG figures!
It's not a new thing for EVs, though, certainly Saab and Volvo have offered them for a long time. It was listed as an option in the handbook of my old Saab 9-5. Might be a Nordic thing!I see what Volvo have done and why though - very clever/sneaky way of increasing range and also MPG figures!
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
Interesting that they'll aim to use live user data to settle on fairer taxation.
Interesting that they'll aim to use live user data to settle on fairer taxation.
Furyblade_Lee said:
My wife has just bought a 3 year old Mini Countryman S E plug in hybrid. just 15,000 miles on it. Nice thing if a tad expensive!!!!! She just phoned me as this morning she tested how far she could go on full electric mode on a FULL CHARGE...... Fair enough the ambient temp was about 5 degrees and she had the LED headlights on and the heater, but she managed just 9 MILES on B-roads around 50mph max before it was fully depleted and the petrol engine kicked in..... She was driving not much more than 12 minutes I guess. Shocking really.
I think you and your wife are kind of missing the point with PHEVs. Over that whole journey, what was the average mpg? Could you have achieved better mpg from a petrol or diesel only car? You are not really meant to be using the electric motor only when driving at 50 mph - the idea is you use the electric motor for low speed city driving and the combustion engine takes over at higher speeds, hence why it's there! Since I got my PHEV, I have managed an average of 88 mpg with mixed driving. For city driving, depending on journey type and conditions, I regularly get over 100 mpg, sometimes over 200 mpg and sometimes I never even use the petrol motor. No chance you can manage those figures in any other car for less than £15k in the current market.
For me, a PHEV is the best of both worlds, currently. I have saved over £820 in fuel over the last 6 months since I bought a PHEV and that's factoring in my increased electicity costs. I paid £11,500 for my car, you couldn't get anything electric that'll be any good for that price. For long journeys, no planning needed, I can just use the combustion engine and get diesel levels of fuel economy, at 50-70 mpg.
I bought a Mercedes GLC300de ( Diesel PHEV) to replace my 2013 Diesel Cayenne last October.
Plug it in at night to my standard 3 Pin socket and it takes 6 hours to change up. Set the preheating to come on before departure. The display shows 22 miles range and this is what I pretty much get.
I do big holiday and leisure trips, yet 95% of my journeys are under the 22:miles , so for me it’s the best of both worlds.
Car has 190 bhp from Diesel engine and 120 bhp from Electric. Road fund tax is much reduced as well.
Plug it in at night to my standard 3 Pin socket and it takes 6 hours to change up. Set the preheating to come on before departure. The display shows 22 miles range and this is what I pretty much get.
I do big holiday and leisure trips, yet 95% of my journeys are under the 22:miles , so for me it’s the best of both worlds.
Car has 190 bhp from Diesel engine and 120 bhp from Electric. Road fund tax is much reduced as well.
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