Regen braking…

[carreauchompeur]

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

[M.F.D]

carreauchompeur said:

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

My wife has a Cupra Leon 1.4 eTSI 245 mild hybrid and I noticed the same. I totally get what you mean about the car feeling like it doesn't want to stop. You do get used to it after a while though.

[ruggedscotty]

if the battery is topped up then the current draw to the battery wont put as much a load on the motor when in regen.

electric braking needs a load to dump that energy, either to the battery or to an electronic load, the greater the load the harder the braking effect.

pushing the pedal harder will result in the mechanical brake eventually taking .

[off_again]

i3 owner here, and while its an earlier generation system, it works well and with a little recalibration of the brain, I really like it.

The i3 does have some weird characteristics when you are pushing hard(er) as it can kick out the regen in certain situations. I got used to using the regen on entry into a corner (I ride bikes too, and picked up the habit of of gentle braking into a corner with the natural engine braking), which means you can make pretty swift progress while retaining a lot of smoothness. However, push it too far / fast and the regen kicks out, causing it to destabilize a little. Thats weird....

But other than that, the blending between regen and mechanical braking works well and I can do 70% of my driving without actually pressing the brake. Pretty cool.

[Evanivitch]

carreauchompeur said:

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

Your mild hybrid has a tiny motor and a tiny battery. Hence it has a tiny amount of regen braking available.

The feeling of regen is also largely driven by software, so that varies greatly by implementation.

[Evanivitch]

off_again said:

i3 owner here, and while its an earlier generation system, it works well and with a little recalibration of the brain, I really like it.

The i3 does have some weird characteristics when you are pushing hard(er) as it can kick out the regen in certain situations. I got used to using the regen on entry into a corner (I ride bikes too, and picked up the habit of of gentle braking into a corner with the natural engine braking), which means you can make pretty swift progress while retaining a lot of smoothness. However, push it too far / fast and the regen kicks out, causing it to destabilize a little. Thats weird....

But other than that, the blending between regen and mechanical braking works well and I can do 70% of my driving without actually pressing the brake. Pretty cool.

i3 is rear wheel driven, so the stability control, especially in a corner, will be concerned about rear brake bias. What you're probably feeling is the front friction brakes engaging and the weight shift.

[SWoll]

Not had a car with bad regen yet.

i3 - Very positive as standard.
Model 3 - One pedal driving mode excellent for daily use.
etron - Regen paddles are a revelation. Set it manually to high around town to maximise recharge and then low on high speed roads to enable coasting.

[georgeyboy12345]

I find it pretty good in my A3 e-tron

[48k]

carreauchompeur said:

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

I have an XC40 BEV and single pedal mode took some getting use to - lift off too abruptly and it really slams on the anchors. Touch the brake pedal as well when in single pedal mode and you practically go through the windscreen Driving around only using one pedal, and parallel parking in particular needed a bit of brain recalibration but I'm used to it now. I rarely put it back in to two-pedal mode.
I guess the presence of the engine and smaller battery/motors in the mild hybrid is causing the different behaviour.

[Diderot]

48k said:

carreauchompeur said:

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

I have an XC40 BEV and single pedal mode took some getting use to - lift off too abruptly and it really slams on the anchors. Touch the brake pedal as well when in single pedal mode and you practically go through the windscreen Driving around only using one pedal, and parallel parking in particular needed a bit of brain recalibration but I'm used to it now. I rarely put it back in to two-pedal mode.
I guess the presence of the engine and smaller battery/motors in the mild hybrid is causing the different behaviour.

I still have got used to it, so drive with it off.

[carreauchompeur]

Interesting. Haven’t fully got used to it yet… there’s no regen with engine braking etc, only on the brakes, which feel spongy until a certain point.

I’m not sure there are settings for this, usually drive it in Dynamic mode. Dynamically

[DJP31]

SWoll said:

Not had a car with bad regen yet.

i3 - Very positive as standard.
Model 3 - One pedal driving mode excellent for daily use.
etron - Regen paddles are a revelation. Set it manually to high around town to maximise recharge and then low on high speed roads to enable coasting.

Can the etron one pedal like the M3? If not and you had to choose which would it be? (based on this only)

[Louis Balfour]

carreauchompeur said:

AIBU or is it a bit st?

Our new work whips are the mild hybrid V90s. Braking recharges the battery.

There’s just something not very positive and a bit spongy about light braking, like the car wants to keep rolling. Jam on and you get proper brakes, but…

Is this just a soggy Volvo characteristic or are they all like that?

It’s why I avoid electric cabs in London. Cabbies accelerate like they are trying to exit Earth’s atmosphere and then brake like they’ve spotted a tenner in the road, to top up the battery.

[anonymous-user]

SWoll said:

Not had a car with bad regen yet.

i3 - Very positive as standard.
Model 3 - One pedal driving mode excellent for daily use.
etron - Regen paddles are a revelation. Set it manually to high around town to maximise recharge and then low on high speed roads to enable coasting.

I honestly struggle to see the point of having "driver selectable regen".

It's simple, press the accelerator a bit more if you want to go faster, release it a bit more if you want to go slower.

"coasting" means nothing, your BEV can coast in any mode by simple setting the motor to zero torque (neither motoring nor absorbing) and that will happen at some point in the pedal travel (most BEV pedal maps actually deliberately expand the zone at which true zero torque is demanded to make it very easy to find this point). A s a driver you don't care, you simply drive the speed you want to drive, be that motor, coast or absorb. Its' really a hang up of mon-directional ICE powertrains that we even have the word coasting,m which of course used to actual involve the selection of a neutral gear too.

One pedal driving is, imo, much more intuitive than two pedal driving, where sometimes you can lift off and slow down enough, but other times you need to swap feet and brake with another pedal, depending on gradient, gear, vehicle load etc, which frankly feels very last century to me :-)

IME, most drivers simply quickly get used to one-pedal and that's that......

[Captain Smerc]

I've found the Volvo XC40 P8 to have excellent regen braking using the one pedal mode, I very rarely have to touch the brake pedal at all. Gonna miss her when she goes shortly,

[off_again]

Max_Torque said:

I honestly struggle to see the point of having "driver selectable regen".

It's simple, press the accelerator a bit more if you want to go faster, release it a bit more if you want to go slower.

"coasting" means nothing, your BEV can coast in any mode by simple setting the motor to zero torque (neither motoring nor absorbing) and that will happen at some point in the pedal travel (most BEV pedal maps actually deliberately expand the zone at which true zero torque is demanded to make it very easy to find this point). A s a driver you don't care, you simply drive the speed you want to drive, be that motor, coast or absorb. Its' really a hang up of mon-directional ICE powertrains that we even have the word coasting,m which of course used to actual involve the selection of a neutral gear too.

One pedal driving is, imo, much more intuitive than two pedal driving, where sometimes you can lift off and slow down enough, but other times you need to swap feet and brake with another pedal, depending on gradient, gear, vehicle load etc, which frankly feels very last century to me :-)

IME, most drivers simply quickly get used to one-pedal and that's that......

The i3 has a pretty aggressive regen braking element and you can learn to optimize it, so getting one-pedal driving. But I am with Swoll on this one - selectable regen is a game changer and I am surprised that more manufacturers aren’t fitting it, with a paddle that is!

I think its the Bolt that has it, can’t remember, but once you get your head around it, its so simple! Regen braking is consistent and fixed (depending on the mode you pick, if the car has selectable modes). But that little paddle is a game changer. You can’t always predict exactly what will happen and maybe the situation needs a little more regen than normal. A quick gentle grab on the paddle and hey presto, you are slowing down more, or release for less. It’s natural, simple and easy.

Yes, you can do the same with your foot, but its surprisingly natural to do and your foot isn’t always on the pedal anyway. You dont need to use it, but having it there is kinda cool and it felt surprisingly natural for me. I think its bloody genius….

[anonymous-user]

off_again said:

Yes, you can do the same with your foot, but its surprisingly natural to do and your foot isn’t always on the pedal anyway.

(My bold) ok i see the problem, you are stuck in a technique that was required for old fashioned cars and is no longer relevant today! Bit like putting your arm out the window and waving it to signal which way you wanted to turn.... ;-)


Think of the "accelerator" pedal as simply how fast you want to go, press more to go faster, press less to go slower, hold you position to go the speed you are currently going. The actual position is irrelevant, other that fully pressed is "as fast as possible" and fully released is "as slow as possible". The fact you can't "coast" (again a left over meaningless term for an EV) with your foot off the pedal is irrelevant, simply move your foot to the position that makes you go the speed you want to go and leave it there. Modern pedals are well sprung these days (remember old cars where you would get ankle ache holding the pedal in some positions) so you can hold your foot on the pedal with the same "effort" as removing your foot. And of course, thanks to modern tech, these days active cruise means you can drive with no feet for really long periods


I'm going to suggest that a seprate regen level selector is in fact un-natural precisely because it changes the relationship between vehicle acceleration and foot position (the same reason i don't really like "mode" specific pedal maps). Once i have learnt and adapted to where my foot needs to be for what accel, i want it to stay like that. Forgetting you've selected min regen then lifting all the way off and wondering why you are now not really slowing down, and then rushing frantically trying to find the brake pedal you haven't used for 3 weeks before you drive into the car ahead or the on-board auto-nanny nails the anchors for you, is far worse and a much more common occurance ime :-)

[SWoll]

DJP31 said:

SWoll said:

Not had a car with bad regen yet.

i3 - Very positive as standard.
Model 3 - One pedal driving mode excellent for daily use.
etron - Regen paddles are a revelation. Set it manually to high around town to maximise recharge and then low on high speed roads to enable coasting.

Can the etron one pedal like the M3? If not and you had to choose which would it be? (based on this only)

It can to a degree, you just leave regen in manual mode and pull the left hand paddle twice for max regen. Won't bring you to a complete stop as in the Tesla but works very well.

After the initial learning curve I actually prefer the Audi implementation. The ability to easily change the regen dependent on usage is great, leave in max around town and then quickly change to minimum when on a longer high speed run to take advantage of coasting and remove the worry of your brake lights coming on every time you back off the throttle.

There's also an automatic mode where it varies the regen based on a number of factors. Wasn't overly keen as gives an inconsistent experience but many owners swear by it.

Max_Torque said:

I honestly struggle to see the point of having "driver selectable regen".

It's simple, press the accelerator a bit more if you want to go faster, release it a bit more if you want to go slower.

"coasting" means nothing, your BEV can coast in any mode by simple setting the motor to zero torque (neither motoring nor absorbing) and that will happen at some point in the pedal travel (most BEV pedal maps actually deliberately expand the zone at which true zero torque is demanded to make it very easy to find this point). A s a driver you don't care, you simply drive the speed you want to drive, be that motor, coast or absorb. Its' really a hang up of mon-directional ICE powertrains that we even have the word coasting,m which of course used to actual involve the selection of a neutral gear too.

One pedal driving is, imo, much more intuitive than two pedal driving, where sometimes you can lift off and slow down enough, but other times you need to swap feet and brake with another pedal, depending on gradient, gear, vehicle load etc, which frankly feels very last century to me :-)

IME, most drivers simply quickly get used to one-pedal and that's that......

I felt exactly the same, but have been very impressed with it in practice. Also seems to help with efficiency on motorway runs.

Max_Torque said:

I'm going to suggest that a seprate regen level selector is in fact un-natural precisely because it changes the relationship between vehicle acceleration and foot position (the same reason i don't really like "mode" specific pedal maps). Once i have learnt and adapted to where my foot needs to be for what accel, i want it to stay like that. Forgetting you've selected min regen then lifting all the way off and wondering why you are now not really slowing down, and then rushing frantically trying to find the brake pedal you haven't used for 3 weeks before you drive into the car ahead or the on-board auto-nanny nails the anchors for you, is far worse and a much more common occurance ime :-)

I comparison to driving a car with a manual gearbox it's really not a challenge and is something that becomes second nature very quickly IME.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 31st January 12:15

[anonymous-user]

SWoll said:

The ability to easily change the regen dependent on usage is great, leave in max around town and then quickly change to minimum when on a longer high speed run to take advantage of coasting and remove the worry of your brake lights coming on every time you back off the throttle.

I'm not being deliberately contrary honest! :-) but:

The brake lights only come on when the vehicle actually reaches a set level of decel, so if you want to "coast" (which really in a EV means "drive at the same speed i am currently going") then simply leave your foot where it is. There is no need to "lift your foot off the accelerator". On a long high speed run, if you are bouncing your foot on and off the accelerator pedal and yo-yoing around, your passengers are going to pretty quickly hate you lol! Just leave you foot where it is, simple........ ;-)

the only reason you want to "lift your foot off the accelerator" is that is how you used to do it with the old fashioned tech we used to drive because those powertrains where fundamentally mono-directional so needed an entirely seperate system to be able to absorb and dispurse Kinetic energy when we wanted to slow down (ie the hydrualic friction brakes), and back in the day when cars were first mass produced, without modern control electronics, the easiest thing to do was simply fit another pedal to allow the driver to activate this system.

[LooneyTunes]

Evanivitch said:

The feeling of regen is also largely driven by software, so that varies greatly by implementation.

Huge difference in Taycan between normal and sport when you lift of the accelerator:

Normal, very little regen, the car just rolls on. Need to brake to slow/really feel the regen.
Sport, much higher regen, car feels more like engine braking.

Tbh, I really didn’t like it in normal but the change of mode transforms how the car feels.