First experience of 'range anxiety'!
Discussion
Well, I had my first proper experience of “Range Anxiety” this weekend! We went up to Scotland for some snowboarding, and the car (Tesla Model S) had performed faultlessly throughout, and charging all the way there and whilst there and been a doddle.
However, on the way home the weather was pretty poor; heavy rain with standing water, around 2’C, at night and with a 20mph headwind. This is pretty much worst case range-wise; the cold weather reduces battery range, being at night and in the rain requires both lights and wipers, and of course both a strong headwind and standing water increase drag substantially. Add to that 3x motorway closures and the resulting diversions, and everything was working against us.
So we set off from Gretna Green Supercharger with around 220 miles of charge, aiming for Stoke Supercharger (Keele Services) 160 miles away. So we had 60 miles in hand. Soon it became apparent this was not enough, as the car advised to drive at 65mph, and then 60mph, to reach our destination. Realising this was cutting it a bit too fine, we then diverted to the more-northerly Warrington Supercharger, 136 miles away. Long story short, driving ultra-conservatively (64mph), no heated seats on, minimal air-con (heating) to stop the car misting up and even turning the headlights off so DRL-only on the lit sections of motorway, we eventually made it to Warrington with 6% (14 miles) battery range remaining! Needless to say, we were very relieved to get there!!
I don’t blame the car particularly, a combination of weather/road conditions and diversions were bound to reduce the range beyond the ‘Typical’ figure given. However, what I do question is how ‘typical’ this figure is? It strikes me that the range figure given as ‘typical’ is more likely ‘ideal’ in reality, and any deviation from those ideal parameters, be that speed, weather or road conditions can have a pretty dramatic impact on actual range!
Anyone else had a similar experience?!
However, on the way home the weather was pretty poor; heavy rain with standing water, around 2’C, at night and with a 20mph headwind. This is pretty much worst case range-wise; the cold weather reduces battery range, being at night and in the rain requires both lights and wipers, and of course both a strong headwind and standing water increase drag substantially. Add to that 3x motorway closures and the resulting diversions, and everything was working against us.
So we set off from Gretna Green Supercharger with around 220 miles of charge, aiming for Stoke Supercharger (Keele Services) 160 miles away. So we had 60 miles in hand. Soon it became apparent this was not enough, as the car advised to drive at 65mph, and then 60mph, to reach our destination. Realising this was cutting it a bit too fine, we then diverted to the more-northerly Warrington Supercharger, 136 miles away. Long story short, driving ultra-conservatively (64mph), no heated seats on, minimal air-con (heating) to stop the car misting up and even turning the headlights off so DRL-only on the lit sections of motorway, we eventually made it to Warrington with 6% (14 miles) battery range remaining! Needless to say, we were very relieved to get there!!
I don’t blame the car particularly, a combination of weather/road conditions and diversions were bound to reduce the range beyond the ‘Typical’ figure given. However, what I do question is how ‘typical’ this figure is? It strikes me that the range figure given as ‘typical’ is more likely ‘ideal’ in reality, and any deviation from those ideal parameters, be that speed, weather or road conditions can have a pretty dramatic impact on actual range!
Anyone else had a similar experience?!
Zoon said:
I suppose this highlights that EV's aren't 100% ready for mainstream motoring just yet.
If you were driving an ICE car your post wouldn't have happened.
True, but we could have stopped at plenty of Ecotricity chargers en route, but they are slower to charge and we wanted to stick to the Tesla Supercharger network, to test this 'range anxiety' issue as much as anything! If you were driving an ICE car your post wouldn't have happened.
Blaster72 said:
You turned the headlights off on a motorway? 
Wasn't there somewhere closer you could stop rather than risk driving about like that?
That aside, how accurate is the Tesla when it comes to range left. Does it have a 20 / 30 mile safety net or is it game over when it says Zero
To clarify, that was only on LIT sections of the motorway, the (very bright) LED DRL's were still on, and it had stopped raining by that point. So not dangerous in any way.Wasn't there somewhere closer you could stop rather than risk driving about like that?
That aside, how accurate is the Tesla when it comes to range left. Does it have a 20 / 30 mile safety net or is it game over when it says Zero
As above, we could have used one of the generic chargers (I have an Ecotricity card), but we wanted to use the Tesla Supercharger network as the charge rate is that much quicker.
Generally speaking the range gadget is much more accurate on the Tesla than it has been on previous ICE cars I've ran, however in the particular scenario above the 'typical' range proved to be very optimistic.
Zoon said:
In a normal car you could have stopped at any petrol station and charged up at the same speed regardless.
Until this becomes the norm for EV's they aren't going to break into the mainstream fully.
Until this becomes the norm for EV's they aren't going to break into the mainstream fully.
REALIST123 said:
I have to agree. Hardly an epic journey and not atypical conditions given the time of year and location.
I think that's a little unfair; of course the petrol/diesel network is more extensive than the EV charging network is, it's been around for about 80 years more. Equally, I can't think of the last time I visited a motorway service area that didn't have some form of EV charging point, typically Ecotricity, though?As I mentioned, we could have stopped at an Ecotricity charger earlier, we just decided not to.
Also, don't forget that you can charge up (cheaply) overnight at home, 10 hours overnight charge gives me an easy 200 mile range, so you wake up every morning with a full 'tank' - it's just a different way of thinking.
This is the first time I've ever experienced range anxiety so far, which isn't bad given between myself and my mate (who also has a Model S) we've collectively covered over 20,000 miles. However, I thought it was worth highlighting it and the conditions surrounding it, as they had a larger impact than we expected!
Blaster72 said:
I'm only ribbing you about the lights. I've somehow managed to delete my post on this thread as well so it's clealy me that's the numpty.
Is the Supercharger network free in the UK too?
Yes, Supercharger network is free of charge, currently the Ecotricity network is too, although the charge rate is slower of course.Is the Supercharger network free in the UK too?
erics said:
This is when i read such threads that i am convinced the i8 remains a great package for the foreseeable future.
Providing you do not need 4 seats.
Great post and real life experience.
Thanks for sharing.
Hmm, not sure it is; the real world MPG of the i8 is not great, when I was chatting to owners they were getting similar MPG figures to what I was getting from my BMW 335D, prior to me getting the Tesla.Providing you do not need 4 seats.
Great post and real life experience.
Thanks for sharing.
The i8 is very desirable, don't get me wrong, and if I can get the missus on board I'd be tempted to get an i8 too now that used values have plummeted, but I'd still be using the Model S for the majority of journeys, and if the i8 was to just be an occasional vehicle I'd rather a used V8 or V12 Vantage
To clarify a few concerns that have been raised:
- Yes the front and rear lights remain on in this condition. Some further research has indicated that the headlights actually draw very little current, so won't be bothering with that again, should I find myself in a similar situation! But we were not driving in a dangerous condition.
- Yes we could have used another third party charger as I said, but we wanted to stick to the Tesla network and see what was achievable. If it really had got to a dire situation there was an Ecotricity charger about 5 miles further up the motorway (closer to us) we would have pulled into had we not been able to make it, as it turned out 6% (14 miles) was plenty to get there...but when you're over 100 miles away it doesn't feel like plenty!!
- We could have left Gretna Green with more charge than we did, the surprise/concern for us was that we thought we had plenty of charge, but it got used up a lot quicker than anticipated in those specific condition.
HOWEVER, between myself and my mate (who also has a Model S) we've collectively covered over 20,000 miles and this is the first time either of us has experienced range anxiety in either of our vehicles. That is VERY impressive in my book, given where EV's were 5 years ago. I have also experienced range anxiety in ICE cars, for instance finding a garage in the middle of Morocco that only stocked diesel - not much good for a V8 petrol Range Rover!!
Ultimately I don't want people to read this thread and get the impression that EV's are not a realistic option. For ~90% of people (I estimate, based on people I know/work with/etc.), an EV would be a perfectly usable vehicle in day to day life. And for the other 10% I am sure they could do, if willing to make certain adaptations or can wait for the charging network to expand. Just imagine how much more pleasant towns, cities, even sitting in traffic would be with no fumes coming out of the car in front! Lovely.
So yes, it's an expensive car, and yes the fuel saving does not really make up for the initial outlay (on a Tesla, at least), but put it this way - I was spending up to £400/month on diesel doing some fairly decent mileage. Now imagine you also finance a car, at say £250/month (not unreasonable). You could finance a Tesla with a half decent spec. for £650-£700/month, pay next to nothing for electricity and be doing the environment a favour. That, to me, makes a lot of sense!
- Yes the front and rear lights remain on in this condition. Some further research has indicated that the headlights actually draw very little current, so won't be bothering with that again, should I find myself in a similar situation! But we were not driving in a dangerous condition.
- Yes we could have used another third party charger as I said, but we wanted to stick to the Tesla network and see what was achievable. If it really had got to a dire situation there was an Ecotricity charger about 5 miles further up the motorway (closer to us) we would have pulled into had we not been able to make it, as it turned out 6% (14 miles) was plenty to get there...but when you're over 100 miles away it doesn't feel like plenty!!
- We could have left Gretna Green with more charge than we did, the surprise/concern for us was that we thought we had plenty of charge, but it got used up a lot quicker than anticipated in those specific condition.
HOWEVER, between myself and my mate (who also has a Model S) we've collectively covered over 20,000 miles and this is the first time either of us has experienced range anxiety in either of our vehicles. That is VERY impressive in my book, given where EV's were 5 years ago. I have also experienced range anxiety in ICE cars, for instance finding a garage in the middle of Morocco that only stocked diesel - not much good for a V8 petrol Range Rover!!
Ultimately I don't want people to read this thread and get the impression that EV's are not a realistic option. For ~90% of people (I estimate, based on people I know/work with/etc.), an EV would be a perfectly usable vehicle in day to day life. And for the other 10% I am sure they could do, if willing to make certain adaptations or can wait for the charging network to expand. Just imagine how much more pleasant towns, cities, even sitting in traffic would be with no fumes coming out of the car in front! Lovely.
So yes, it's an expensive car, and yes the fuel saving does not really make up for the initial outlay (on a Tesla, at least), but put it this way - I was spending up to £400/month on diesel doing some fairly decent mileage. Now imagine you also finance a car, at say £250/month (not unreasonable). You could finance a Tesla with a half decent spec. for £650-£700/month, pay next to nothing for electricity and be doing the environment a favour. That, to me, makes a lot of sense!
DonkeyApple said:
Having owned TVRs for over 20 years I would just add that your story is near identical to most road trips I've ever been on, with the only exception that your fuel gauge would appear to be more accurate which clearly removed a large chunk of the fun.
DonkeyApple, long time no see! Still doing that RRC build, or is that finished and sold already?! DonkeyApple said:
If everything goes well I'm hoping to have it in the road and the interim 4 door up for sale ahead of this Christmas.
Glad it's all progressing! Is there a build thread somewhere?! I know I shouldn't ask, but I'm weak...how much would you want for the 4-door, and what spec is it?? y2blade said:
......Yet some still say EVs lack excitement.
This all sounds very exciting to me.
It is/was! This all sounds very exciting to me.
;)ORD said:
I am always surprised at the delays that people will put up with. When someone says "20 min charge here" and "30 min charge there", I stop reading. I would never tolerate that kind of delay in a journey.
Depends on the journey! I drove from the Midlands to Glasgow last weekend, left at 8am and was at Glasgow airport by 3pm; that's 7 hours to cover 330 miles, an average speed of just shy of 50mph, including 3 short charging stops. OK, you could do it in 5.5 hours non-stop in an ICE vehicle perhaps, but personally I like to stop for lunch and could do with a piss every 3 hours anyway. And how often do you do a 300+ mile journey anyway?In day to day use, the car is no different to driving an ICE for me, other than it's not spewing out toxic fumes, it's largely free miles, and I wake up with a full 'tank' every morning. Oh, and it's faster than pretty much every other ICE vehicle this side of a supercar...
y2blade said:
lol at the irony of the "It's not spewing out toxic fumes" comment good old greenies............
Well it's not, is it? And OK, you can use the electricity generation argument, but once I've transferred my mains supply at home to Ecotricity (http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-your-home/britain-s-greenest-energy) then the electricity I am using will be as green as possible too. good old greenies............ Of course, then everyone chunters on about battery production, but that never concerned people when they buy a laptop or smartphone, and there's many millions more of them than there are EV cars, and they're far more 'disposable' too, so that's a bit of a moot point. Producing an ICE is hardly emissions free, anyway!
chandrew said:
Some of this is the mentality of wanting one car to cover all use cases...
Very well put, and similar reasoning to myself. We still have an ICE, although we went the other way and have the Tesla for most of our journeys (and all long trips) and a little Audi for shorter trips, running round and the missus' commute. My commute is 85 miles each way a couple of times a week, so the cost saving for running the Tesla over an ICE is significant, although not my main reason for purchase.I still have motorbikes for fun at the weekend too, so I'm not an all-out EV greenie, far from it. My theory is this: the sooner everyone who can drive an EV does, the better the infrastructure will be for charging, the greater the drive for reneweable energy generation (which can be done, see Norway as a case in point), the better our environment will be and ultimately the longer fossil fuels will last to keep my beloved V8's and motorbikes running too
ORD said:
Uber barges are astonishingly dull to drive, so speed is neither here nor there (even were it usable, which it isnt, given the effect on range). If you made the Tesla as fast as a 320d, nobody would notice the difference unless in the first few weeks of ownership, because everyone drives like a granny to save juice.
Adding 1.5 hours to a long journey is an absolute non-starter for me. But people all value their leisure time differently. I dont want to spend more time than I have to at motorway services or sitting by a charger.
Not true, I drive my P85+ like as much of a tAdding 1.5 hours to a long journey is an absolute non-starter for me. But people all value their leisure time differently. I dont want to spend more time than I have to at motorway services or sitting by a charger.
t as I did any of my previous 'performance' cars; Cayman S, S2000, various BMW's etc.! My concern for range is usually non-existent, as I rarely travel more than 150 miles between charges, therefore can hoon around as much as like inbetween!erics said:
To be frank, it is not the range anxiety that gets me with the tesla, it's the fact that they do not make a sporty two seater version. A gt car type thing that would be great looking. Am sure it is an amazing machine. It just does not trigger that 'want' factor in me.
You mean a sporty two seater like the Tesla Roadster?! 
In all seriousness though, rumour has it now Model X is online, and once Model 3 and the Gigafactory is up and running, the next release will be some form of Sports car or possible even a Supercar; Elon has already said they can get quicker 0-60 and 0-100 times than even the P90D (2.8s, officially, around 2.5s in tests) so imagine a Model S GT coupe that could do 0-60 in 2.0s and a genuine 300 mile range? Yes please..!
Lgm50 said:
Only problem I can see is when there are more on the roads and the Superchargers get too busy resulting in queues to charge, so I'd better finish this by saying that the lack of range and having to plug it in every night is a real chore so suggest everyone stays with ICE cars for foreseeable future :-) !
Yeah, that...! REALIST123 said:
I make a lot of trips that an EV would do. I also regularly make longer trips. Over the weekend I drove 690 miles in a total of 10.5 hours, including stops. No way I could do that in an EV.
I beg to differ; the start of this thread was a journey I took to Scotland and back, which was around 350 miles each way and perfectly do-able in the Tesla, had I factored in enough 'margin' for the one section of the trip we were running short, which in itself was only due to (very) adverse weather conditions. Going in the opposite direction with normal weather, we had no issues.Having said that...you claim 690 miles in 10.5 hours? That's an average speed of 66mph, so either you were on an awful lot of Autobahn, or driving vastly over the UK speed limit for the majority of your journey. Either way, I smell BS
REALIST123 said:
I left Samoens at 10pm Saturday. Arrived St Quentin at 4.30. 440 miles.
Left St Quentin at 8.30am Sunday arrived Calais 10.00am. 110 miles.
Left the Eurotunnel base at 10.30 arrived home at 1pm. 160 miles
I made a mistake, 710 miles.
Still smell bullst? Check your pants.
That's going some, I fairly regularly (twice a year) do a run to and from the Alps and it's a solid 8 hours with no stops; that last bit to Calais usually takes at least 2 hours. But regardless of that, I could do the same run in my Model S with perhaps an extra hour (total) for charging stops en route, and of course you wouldn't spend a penny on fuel so I'll stick with it Left St Quentin at 8.30am Sunday arrived Calais 10.00am. 110 miles.
Left the Eurotunnel base at 10.30 arrived home at 1pm. 160 miles
I made a mistake, 710 miles.
Still smell bulls
t? Check your pants. JonV8V said:
My beef is people coming into the forum, not to find out more from owners but to really try and convince themselves as well as others that the model doesn't work. To start quoting 5 hour cross Europe trip which includes an overnight break is just bonkers especially as door to door, the real measure of the trip, was something like 20 hours. It's like saying a 3 series touring is a useless car because you can get more in a 5 series on a tip run.
I absolutely agree with that comment! Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff