New Lithium batteries with 3 times the storage
Discussion
The lithium-ion battery has been given THREE times the storage by a 96 yr old man, Dr John Goodenough. THREE times the storage of the current Li-ion batteries, smaller, a 5 minute charge time, is non-flammable, lighter, with NO degradation after several thousand charging cycles. And, it's ready for production, and should be cheaper to produce. Smart phones will last 4 days not one day. If it goes to market in volume and the price drops as a result, this is `game changer`. Full EVs are then here and bye, bye polluting petro fuels. It is also the other applications that add much value overall. I can see them in battery trains to save on the excessive cost of overhead wires and planes. with a generator on board.
As a retrofit a battery set change will triple the range of a plug-in Prius. It will also capture more kinetic energy as well. The car is transformed by as simple battery change.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/03/17...
As a retrofit a battery set change will triple the range of a plug-in Prius. It will also capture more kinetic energy as well. The car is transformed by as simple battery change.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/03/17...
Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 09:59
Mr GrimNasty said:
You could fill the internet with stories about 'game changing' batteries.
They are simply people seeking funding publicised by green nutjobs/ideologues with an agenda to make you believe a new energy paradigm is possible - it isn't.
This guy is the head of a team at Texas Uni. He invented the original Lith Ion battery. I would take all this seriously. They are simply people seeking funding publicised by green nutjobs/ideologues with an agenda to make you believe a new energy paradigm is possible - it isn't.
Edited by RayTay on Saturday 1st July 12:50
A problems with such fast charging is the electrical infrastructure to support all this charging. To charge a set of batteries fast that will propel a car 300-400 miles will need `big` cables. The existing grid will not cope, unless banks of large supercapacitors in charging stations are charged overnight and used during the day. The grid will need to time-share the charging of stations to spread the load. As EVs are introduced Infrastructure would need to be increased in capacity.
I've read that supercapacitors for EV charging are being experimented with right now. Trains use supercapacitors to claw back kinetic braking energy, it is a pretty mature technology. The way it is going, battery technology will outpace infrastructure installation.
Musk's PV roof tiles, which he says are cheaper than normal roof tiles, makes every roof a solar roof. This will alleviate the infrastructure increases. Utility companies could pay to reclad roofs to input into the grid locally.
In ten years time expect to see only EVs in cities. I can't wait to get rid of the pollution which ruins lungs and blackens buildings.
I've read that supercapacitors for EV charging are being experimented with right now. Trains use supercapacitors to claw back kinetic braking energy, it is a pretty mature technology. The way it is going, battery technology will outpace infrastructure installation.
Musk's PV roof tiles, which he says are cheaper than normal roof tiles, makes every roof a solar roof. This will alleviate the infrastructure increases. Utility companies could pay to reclad roofs to input into the grid locally.
In ten years time expect to see only EVs in cities. I can't wait to get rid of the pollution which ruins lungs and blackens buildings.
This new battery has terrific potential for electric planes. This plane on existing batteries can fly at 250mph for 600 miles. Either they can have a battery set one third of the size and weight or three times the range with the new battery breakthrough. I can see smallish passenger planes feeding the Heathrow hub. They will be cheap to run.
It will transform trams and trains. Overhead wires can be eliminated. To electrify rail track is very expensive. The diesel Wrexham to Birkenhead train cannot enter Liverpool as it is diesel is eliminated from the underground metro stations and tunnels. The line is too expensive to electrify. Now the solution is here. Hybrid battery/ electric trains.
Also road tunnels will not need the massive ventilation shafts & buildings and parallel vent tunnels they need now to extract the exhaust fumes. This makes road tunnels much cheaper build and maintain.
Ships? I can see market for coasters and river craft. Solar panels on the wheelhouse to help.
It will transform trams and trains. Overhead wires can be eliminated. To electrify rail track is very expensive. The diesel Wrexham to Birkenhead train cannot enter Liverpool as it is diesel is eliminated from the underground metro stations and tunnels. The line is too expensive to electrify. Now the solution is here. Hybrid battery/ electric trains.
Also road tunnels will not need the massive ventilation shafts & buildings and parallel vent tunnels they need now to extract the exhaust fumes. This makes road tunnels much cheaper build and maintain.
Ships? I can see market for coasters and river craft. Solar panels on the wheelhouse to help.
Edited by RayTay on Saturday 1st July 13:26
LuS1fer said:
EV exponents like to major on things that are good and ignore the bad like where does the electricity come from, where do the precious metals come from, who is going to pay to replace the batteries and recycle them, when they are spent, why are they subsidised and why is the range so poor you can't trust it to go any real distance.
Either you are mickey taking or just do not know. Teslas are getting 200 mile range. They beauty of the new batteries is that they are using glass and plastic electrolyte.100 years ago there was 15,000 EV charging points in New York, What put the IC car in favour over the EV was an electric motor, the starter motor. Modern batteries, as they stand, are powering battery trains in Japan with tests being done here in the UK. This is the beginning of the end for IC engines.
I am sure even you can remember the brick cell phones. Look at them now. Just a simple cell phone can last a week and fit in your top pocket. That progress has not stopped. The batteries have progressed and the efficiency of the electrical equipment as well.
TooMany2cvs said:
It's not insurmountable. Of course it isn't. But it WOULD need a MASSIVE overhaul to the entire national grid, including a LOT more power stations...
It would not need a massive overhaul to the grid if electricity is generated locally, via solar roofs, wind, and especially tidal lagoons, etc. It does have to be done now though. This is another breakthrough, using plastic as the electrolyte. But holds only twice the energy that we have today. There may be scope for improvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9UxOJacQmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9UxOJacQmg
Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 09:58
MrJingles705 said:
Reading the original paper, and then reading some of the followup from experts in the field (and thats not meant to disparage John Goodenough who - besiodes having one of the best names out there - is pretty much the go-to guy for Li-on Batteries) but there are some significant issues to overcome on capability.
Voltage can only be produced when there is potential across the anode/canode.... the way this battery works means that the same material is deposied on both nodes and and once material starts getting too thick (more than a micron) then that potential goes away. Basically, each individual cell is capacity-limited and I'm not sure how they will overcome that physical limit.
Look at the video I posted. That uses plastic as the electrolyte. Goodenough uses glass. That is what after 1,000s of charges there is no degradation. Voltage can only be produced when there is potential across the anode/canode.... the way this battery works means that the same material is deposied on both nodes and and once material starts getting too thick (more than a micron) then that potential goes away. Basically, each individual cell is capacity-limited and I'm not sure how they will overcome that physical limit.
98elise said:
The average driver needs 7kWh of energy per day. That's about the same as a Hob for an hour.
The majority of charging will be done over night, so the current over time drops significantly. Now you are in the realms of an outside light, or the total draw from my kitchen lights.
We have plenty of spare energy capacity to cope with that, and the grid already deals with most hobs and cookers being switched on at peak times.
We may need to throttle when your house is at peak demand, but that's very very simple.
Good post. A large American car only need 20HP as most to propel itself down a Mway at 70mph, yet some engines have over 200HP. 80% of the energy in the tank is wasted. Current IC cars pollute the air like crazy. But many think, via ignorance, that is all fine and dandy. The majority of charging will be done over night, so the current over time drops significantly. Now you are in the realms of an outside light, or the total draw from my kitchen lights.
We have plenty of spare energy capacity to cope with that, and the grid already deals with most hobs and cookers being switched on at peak times.
We may need to throttle when your house is at peak demand, but that's very very simple.
The reports are 3 times the energy storage, longevity, lighter, etc. All from reliable sources and institutions with progressive track records. That is something to fire optimism, not just for vehicles. Yet I read far too much negativeness. In real life I shy away from
negative people. They hold the world back.
negative people. They hold the world back.
Heres Johnny said:
As for the energy required to refine, here's one article that came up first in google but that pitches even higher than the figure I used.
https://green transportation . info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html
Yes, the energy used to produce petro fuels and its transportation is ignored. Take that out of the equation and charge EVs direct and there is not a real big problem. The video below says one UK refinery consumed the amount of electricity to run Coventry and Leicester combined. It is obvious the power production stations can cope when we all go EV. https://green transportation . info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html
Some jiggery pokery with the distribution may all that is needed. then take into account local solar PV generation, wind, etc. It would be better if all vehicles, trains, etc, were electric and oil used to generate it, rather than filthy coal. But coal stations are being phased out and few are left, in favour of eco wood pellets. The Port of Liverpool has built a big terminal for the wood pellets which will come from North America.
I like the way the video slags Clarkson.
Edited by RayTay on Sunday 2nd July 21:11
Pollution to make electricity.
Electricity produces petrol cleanly.
Petrol burning pollutes - and ruins lung.
We get pollution twice.
Common sense says remove the polluting petrol burning aspect, which is an unnecessary layer, and go full EV. Range anxiety is now not an issue in EVs, with new battery and vehicle advances will ensure it will not be in the coming decade, so no reason not to cut out petro fuels.
Electricity produces petrol cleanly.
Petrol burning pollutes - and ruins lung.
We get pollution twice.
Common sense says remove the polluting petrol burning aspect, which is an unnecessary layer, and go full EV. Range anxiety is now not an issue in EVs, with new battery and vehicle advances will ensure it will not be in the coming decade, so no reason not to cut out petro fuels.
Edited by RayTay on Sunday 2nd July 17:38
Pvapour said:
As for the uk power stations coping, its in hand and its fek all to do with upping their capacity, its all to do with control of consumption and homes being solar equipped.
Modern batteries like the Tesla Powerwall, can store enough energy for a home's daily use. They can be charged cheaply using off-peak electricity at night. If one million homes have them 5 power stations can be de-commissioned - or not built. Far cheaper for the utilities to install one million batteries than build 5 power stations. Then put solar panels on the roofs of these one million homes then the grid's problems can be solved as they input into then grid locally. It is not rocket science. Reduce the electricity refineries use, which will reduce as less petro fuels are consumed, and add domestic, and commercial, batteries and solar panels. Then we are then just about there.
eldar said:
Adoption is low as the economic case for EV doesn't stack up yet.
A taxi company in Cornwall did 100,000 miles in 2 years with a Nissan Leaf. They saved £17,000 in fuel and maintenance costs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdUdhJxIt0&t=...
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