Andersen A2 (3 Phase) charging a Nissan Leaf
Discussion
Hi all. I've just bought a 30kw 2016 Leaf Tekna for my wife. It's got the type 1 connector and the 'fast' Chademo connection which can charge at 6.6kWh I understand.
Our house already has 3phase power so it seems a good idea to future proof to order a 3 Phase Andersen device which can ultimately charge at 22kWh.
I of course know the leaf cannot charge at 22kWh, only 6.6kWh.
I was asking the Andersen people to confirm I can 'fast charge' the lead using the Andersen but they said I might need a connector? They could not be sure and had never heard of 'Chademo' which made a bit concerned.
I don't really want the hassle of adaptors. Is there anyone who can confirm my charger will 'fast charge' out the box?
I'm really new to EV and these decisions are not cheap so I'm keen to get it right.
Our house already has 3phase power so it seems a good idea to future proof to order a 3 Phase Andersen device which can ultimately charge at 22kWh.
I of course know the leaf cannot charge at 22kWh, only 6.6kWh.
I was asking the Andersen people to confirm I can 'fast charge' the lead using the Andersen but they said I might need a connector? They could not be sure and had never heard of 'Chademo' which made a bit concerned.
I don't really want the hassle of adaptors. Is there anyone who can confirm my charger will 'fast charge' out the box?
I'm really new to EV and these decisions are not cheap so I'm keen to get it right.
Mr E said:
Your type 1 should/might charge at 7.2KW
The second socket is for 50KW “fast” charging.
Thanks - the car came with two leads. The Nissan granny lead which connects to the Type 1 connector. This is all I can use today. The second is a Rolec branded cable which can connect from the Chademo port in the car to a Rolec 32a WallPod which I bought secondhand as an interim solution until the Andersen is installed. This I'm assuming is my 'fast charger' for use when out and about for charging.The second socket is for 50KW “fast” charging.
From what you say, my Andersen A2 which is a tethered charger would need a Type1 connector, which I'm sure it wouldn't be supplied with as its being marketed for fast charging cars??
longblackcoat said:
Unless you have the optional onboard 6.6kW charger, then (without additional equipment) you'll not be able to charge at faster than 3.3kW using the Type 1 connector.
No idea about using the Chademo with a domestic setup though
I do have the optional 6.6kW charger.No idea about using the Chademo with a domestic setup though
Perhaps where my confusion lies is I assumed to make use of that speed the Chademo port needs to be used which I think is NOT type 1 ?
Toaster Pilot said:
If you have 3 phase available I don’t know why you wouldn’t fit a 22kW charger especially when with the Andersen it costs so little extra.
OP - as others have said, the Chademo port is only for DC rapid charging. For AC charging, you use the Type 1 port.
I've decided to cancel my Andersen order. The reasons being;OP - as others have said, the Chademo port is only for DC rapid charging. For AC charging, you use the Type 1 port.
1) Our leaf will never charge more than 6.6kWh
2) Whilst we intend to offer our charger to guests (airb&b) they will still likely be ok with overnight charging at 7kwh.
3) I'd need to also install a 3 Phase consumer unit as my current unit is single phase
4) I've already good a perfectly good single phase Rolec 32amp charger that I can install myself (total cost circa £200)
In short the only benefit I can see going 3 phase at this time would mean some tesla owning guest might be able to charge their car in an hour, rather than overnight. I'd be paying around £2500 for them to do this!
Edited by Rawhide on Tuesday 11th January 16:18
Toaster Pilot said:
You can install yourself? Are you a qualified electrician? I’m not sure I’d be offering a DIY installed charger to paying guests otherwise, sounds like a liability nightmare.
Fair point, I do have a trusted electrician who I have asked to inspect my work before I use the circuit. I know there are considerations such as earthing rods to consider and suchlike. The actual install could not be simpler, consumer unit - wall - EV on other side. Dedicated circuit.blueacid said:
To (try and) clear some of this up, there are a number of different charging standards but they broadly fall under one of two categories; DC and AC.
With AC charging, the charger is pretty dumb. All it contains are some relays, and perhaps a small computer. The costs are pretty low, the charger doesn't 'do' much, and it's physically quite small. These are the chargers which you'll see people installing on their homes, or the cheap 'post' chargers that can quickly go up in car parks, or sometimes a socket fitted to a lamppost etc.
The actual job of charging is delegated to the charger in the car.
The AC charger might make available 1 phase, or 3 phase power, and might have a limit of up to 7kW per phase (for a total of circa 22kW) made available, but it's up to the cable you use & the charger in your car to be able to make use of this.
Some early leaf cars (leaves?) were only equipped with 3.3kW chargers; yours is 6.6. The typical limit for a 1-phase on board charger is 7kW.
Some cars can use 3-phase, and (paired with a 3-phase cable) this offers typically 11kW, but sometimes 22 (in the case of the Renault Zoe, and the Porsche Taycan with the optional extra charger). Connect one of these cars to a 3-phase charger with a 1-phase cable, for example, and you'll be constrained only to the 7kW that the cable can carry. Similarly, connect a 22kW renault zoe to a 1-phase socket that's got a supply limit of 5.5kW and, no way around it 5.5kW charging is all you'll manage. A leaf with a 3.3kW charger connected to a 22kW-capable socket will only charge at 3.3kW.
All cars you can buy today will have a Type 2 AC connector on them, it's just some very early Japanese cars which have Type 1 connectors. So if you are going to be installing a charger, makes sense for it to be a Type 2 socket, and then if you possess a Type-1 equipped car, buy a suitable adapter for that.
DC charging takes the car's on-board charger out of the loop. Put simply, it exposes the battery terminals to the connector on the front of the car, allowing for a bigger, meaner, more powerful charger to supply much more power. This is why the rapid chargers you see will be typically bigger; think filing cabinet rather than bollard. They'll often sport cooling fans - the hardware required to charge quicker being bigger, heavier, and will produce more heat when in operation.
They're quite costly to buy (£10k or more, usually), and they need a fairly serious 3-phase supply, which is why you'll typically find fewer of them & why the prices to use them are often higher. But, in exchange, they can supply typically at least 50kW to the battery, if not more.
In some cases - namely the Tesla Superchargers and charging stations made by Kempower, the charger designs are quite sleek, with all the power conversion hardware neatly hidden behind a neat fence a few metres away.
Basically for home domestic use, though, you'll be using the onboard car charger. There is an "adapter" to use the chademo or CCS connector on a car, but it's called a DC charger and, well, you got £10k stashed down the back of the couch?
Thanks for the super helpful post. I've learned a lot from this thread.. and saved a lot of money from being wasted.With AC charging, the charger is pretty dumb. All it contains are some relays, and perhaps a small computer. The costs are pretty low, the charger doesn't 'do' much, and it's physically quite small. These are the chargers which you'll see people installing on their homes, or the cheap 'post' chargers that can quickly go up in car parks, or sometimes a socket fitted to a lamppost etc.
The actual job of charging is delegated to the charger in the car.
The AC charger might make available 1 phase, or 3 phase power, and might have a limit of up to 7kW per phase (for a total of circa 22kW) made available, but it's up to the cable you use & the charger in your car to be able to make use of this.
Some early leaf cars (leaves?) were only equipped with 3.3kW chargers; yours is 6.6. The typical limit for a 1-phase on board charger is 7kW.
Some cars can use 3-phase, and (paired with a 3-phase cable) this offers typically 11kW, but sometimes 22 (in the case of the Renault Zoe, and the Porsche Taycan with the optional extra charger). Connect one of these cars to a 3-phase charger with a 1-phase cable, for example, and you'll be constrained only to the 7kW that the cable can carry. Similarly, connect a 22kW renault zoe to a 1-phase socket that's got a supply limit of 5.5kW and, no way around it 5.5kW charging is all you'll manage. A leaf with a 3.3kW charger connected to a 22kW-capable socket will only charge at 3.3kW.
All cars you can buy today will have a Type 2 AC connector on them, it's just some very early Japanese cars which have Type 1 connectors. So if you are going to be installing a charger, makes sense for it to be a Type 2 socket, and then if you possess a Type-1 equipped car, buy a suitable adapter for that.
DC charging takes the car's on-board charger out of the loop. Put simply, it exposes the battery terminals to the connector on the front of the car, allowing for a bigger, meaner, more powerful charger to supply much more power. This is why the rapid chargers you see will be typically bigger; think filing cabinet rather than bollard. They'll often sport cooling fans - the hardware required to charge quicker being bigger, heavier, and will produce more heat when in operation.
They're quite costly to buy (£10k or more, usually), and they need a fairly serious 3-phase supply, which is why you'll typically find fewer of them & why the prices to use them are often higher. But, in exchange, they can supply typically at least 50kW to the battery, if not more.
In some cases - namely the Tesla Superchargers and charging stations made by Kempower, the charger designs are quite sleek, with all the power conversion hardware neatly hidden behind a neat fence a few metres away.
Basically for home domestic use, though, you'll be using the onboard car charger. There is an "adapter" to use the chademo or CCS connector on a car, but it's called a DC charger and, well, you got £10k stashed down the back of the couch?
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff