Ferrari p/x purchase issue where do I stand
Discussion
I purchased a used 12 year old Ferrari 6 months ago from a large prominent dealer specialising in top end cars. The car was in excess of £130k. I tried to p/x it this week at a Ferrari dealer whom have informed me the car is recorded on the Ferrari system as seriously damaged/ written off, and as a result will not take the car in part exchange.
The independent I bought the car from did not tell me the car had been damaged. HPI shows the car as ‘clear’ and I‘m pretty sure they will plead ignorance, and say they do not have access to the Ferrari system.
I’m guessing my first port of call will be to go back to the dealer I purchased the car from, but really not sure where I stand.
I feel like I may be stuck with the car now, and if I try to sell it I will take a massive hit on the value. Any thoughts or advice?
The independent I bought the car from did not tell me the car had been damaged. HPI shows the car as ‘clear’ and I‘m pretty sure they will plead ignorance, and say they do not have access to the Ferrari system.
I’m guessing my first port of call will be to go back to the dealer I purchased the car from, but really not sure where I stand.
I feel like I may be stuck with the car now, and if I try to sell it I will take a massive hit on the value. Any thoughts or advice?
Has the Ferrari dealership given you a copy of the report detailing when and why it was written off? It would be useful to know if the car was written off years before the Indy sold it to you, or if it happened immediately prior to you purchasing it. If it was written off 10 years ago, it’s possible they know as much as you did at the time of purchase.
It’s been a long time since I watched any salvage YouTube channels but is there not a website you can look up vin details and it’ll tell you if the car has ever been through the auctions or insurance yards as a wrote off, and usually provides photos etc so you can see the damage.
It’s been a long time since I watched any salvage YouTube channels but is there not a website you can look up vin details and it’ll tell you if the car has ever been through the auctions or insurance yards as a wrote off, and usually provides photos etc so you can see the damage.
parabolica said:
Has the Ferrari dealership given you a copy of the report detailing when and why it was written off? It would be useful to know if the car was written off years before the Indy sold it to you, or if it happened immediately prior to you purchasing it. If it was written off 10 years ago, it’s possible they know as much as you did at the time of purchase.
It’s been a long time since I watched any salvage YouTube channels but is there not a website you can look up vin details and it’ll tell you if the car has ever been through the auctions or insurance yards as a wrote off, and usually provides photos etc so you can see the damage.
I would start here. Try to get a copy of whatever it is Ferrari say has happened to this car. It’s been a long time since I watched any salvage YouTube channels but is there not a website you can look up vin details and it’ll tell you if the car has ever been through the auctions or insurance yards as a wrote off, and usually provides photos etc so you can see the damage.
Next port of call is to understand what assurances the high-end dealer gave you about the car's history. Did they give you any assurance that it had never been damaged? What did the sale paperwork say about warranties about the condition and history of the car?
The HPI point is (as I understand it) far from conclusive proof of accident history:
https://www.hpi.co.uk/guides/common-questions.html
"Your HPI Check will not provide information on every accident a vehicle has been in. Accident damage is only identified where an insurance company has registered the vehicle as a write-off."
It sounds like the car was potentially damaged and repaired by Ferrari without insurer involvement. If the dealer didn't know about this, or you didn't ask the question it would be hard to see how a claim could succeed.
The other question is what this means in terms of value. It may be that there has been no loss in value if the repair was done to the manufacturer standards and wasn't recorded.
On a practical level, I'd probably just ask for a px value from another dealer and see what they say.
Edited by R56Cooper on Friday 16th December 14:59
Given it's a significant amount of money I think yo need to dig deeper but my initial thoughts are if the ca is shown as HPI clear then the selling dealer hasn't done anything wrong, and may well have no idea what Ferrari are referring to.
A V car check would be interesting to see the results of.
Has the car ever been inspected in your ownership? Did you pay for any inspection prior to your purchase?
A V car check would be interesting to see the results of.
Has the car ever been inspected in your ownership? Did you pay for any inspection prior to your purchase?
Ooouf not good - sorry to hear this.
Have you been advised in what way it was written off? Any good indy would be able to tell a car has been damage/repaired before they take the car in and 'go again' on it and most would not want to get involved in such a thing.
If it is found to be a 'fully informed' and 'non disclosed' re-sale of a significantly damaged/repaired car then potentially the fall out from that could end the business by way of a damaged reputation and most would not want to risk that to simply make a sale on one piece of stock.
Might be worth sticking this in the Ferrari forum too.
Good luck!
Have you been advised in what way it was written off? Any good indy would be able to tell a car has been damage/repaired before they take the car in and 'go again' on it and most would not want to get involved in such a thing.
If it is found to be a 'fully informed' and 'non disclosed' re-sale of a significantly damaged/repaired car then potentially the fall out from that could end the business by way of a damaged reputation and most would not want to risk that to simply make a sale on one piece of stock.
Might be worth sticking this in the Ferrari forum too.
Good luck!
Edited by 240Cup on Friday 16th December 14:38
Jamescrs said:
Given it's a significant amount of money I think yo need to dig deeper but my initial thoughts are if the ca is shown as HPI clear then the selling dealer hasn't done anything wrong, and may well have no idea what Ferrari are referring to.
A V car check would be interesting to see the results of.
Has the car ever been inspected in your ownership? Did you pay for any inspection prior to your purchase?
Sorry but how does the last sentence in anyway help the OP at this stage?A V car check would be interesting to see the results of.
Has the car ever been inspected in your ownership? Did you pay for any inspection prior to your purchase?
Best of luck in any case.
Fady said:
Sorry but how does the last sentence in anyway help the OP at this stage?
Best of luck in any case.
I was asking to gauge the potential level of damage and the accuracy of Ferrari's records given the car is HPI clear. Best of luck in any case.
I would have thought if the OP had paid for an inspection then the potential repairs would have been discovered prior to his purchase.
Also do you know what details Ferrari used to look up the car? I’m guessing/hoping the vin. My only thought is BMW refused to give me a p/x value on my 6 series because they checked the car using only my private plate, and it came back as written off. A little digging and I found out 30 odd years ago the car the plate was on at that time was written off, and whatever system bmw were using was telling them my 2012 6 series was written off when it certainly wasn’t.
Consumer protection from unfair trading act , a omission that would allow a consumer to make a purchase, should be your go to in law act, the issue is how you prove the indie knew. Maybe Ferrari keep a log of checks done on there system. Also does it say on there website they check Ferrari systems?
I don't know if we're allowed to say the actual name or not, but maybe do a CarVertical check as it's what all the YouTubers seem to plug (I believe this is because of a sponsorship / YouTube management company sharing certain brands and products to several YouTubers at once). Not tried it myself but will be when I'm trying to buy a car next year hopefully. Also there's a 10% or 20% discount code depending on which YouTuber you use maybe.
Maybe the cost isn't too much of an issue to you but it's apparently quite comprehensive and searches internationally also for any crime or damage etc.
Maybe the cost isn't too much of an issue to you but it's apparently quite comprehensive and searches internationally also for any crime or damage etc.
Thanks for all of your input so far. I have established that thankfully the car was not written off. It had some frontal damage and was repaired by a Ferrari approved bodyshop using genuine Ferrari parts 18 months ago. Apparently even if the welded front bumper support beam is replaced, Ferrari log it as structural.
It still leaves me in the same position regarding part exchange.
It still leaves me in the same position regarding part exchange.
Mfb said:
Thanks for all of your input so far. I have established that thankfully the car was not written off. It had some frontal damage and was repaired by a Ferrari approved bodyshop using genuine Ferrari parts 18 months ago. Apparently even if the welded front bumper support beam is replaced, Ferrari log it as structural.
It still leaves me in the same position regarding part exchange.
I guess there's a specific car that the Ferrari dealer has that you're looking to part ex it for which makes the situation difficult. Maybe another independent has another in their stock or will end up having one in the next few months, and then you can part ex it there instead? My only other thought was I don't know if you could part ex to something as like an intermediate step, and then use that intermediate step car (which should have no issues to Ferrari) as a part ex for the car they have, but I imagine you'd be taking a bit of a hit from doing that?It still leaves me in the same position regarding part exchange.
I'm not experienced at all with this, if you see my threads in car buying or finance section I'm probably not the person to be giving advice, but just throwing what comes to my head in, in case it does help.
I'd want to know eactly what the damage was. It would be interesting as well to find out when (in relation to when the car got retailed by the indie).
If it was a front bumper/paint and a tiny bit of welding to bumper support then no problem to move that car on - I'd want to be up front and honest about it but it wouldn't neccessarily preclude either a px or a private sale? You might take a slight hit on the value, desirability of the car but to a degree it would depend on the rest of the history / spec. At 10 years old/£130K is it a 458?
If it took a fair old significant whack in the front but was still economically reparable then unfortunately we are looking at a possible significant determimental effect on the value / ability to p-ex.
If it was a front bumper/paint and a tiny bit of welding to bumper support then no problem to move that car on - I'd want to be up front and honest about it but it wouldn't neccessarily preclude either a px or a private sale? You might take a slight hit on the value, desirability of the car but to a degree it would depend on the rest of the history / spec. At 10 years old/£130K is it a 458?
If it took a fair old significant whack in the front but was still economically reparable then unfortunately we are looking at a possible significant determimental effect on the value / ability to p-ex.
My view is this is not the selling dealers fault. In fact I’d go as far as to suggest that this is a way for Ferrari to lock down the secondhand market of these cars.
Traditionally when looking to buy a car, even one that has been in a serious unrecorded shunt, is to stand by the HPI status. If Ferrari are now effectively recording their own register of work on cars, either they make this available to selling dealers or they are manipulating the market.
If the firm that sold you the car had access to the Ferrari data on the car and chose to ignore it or didn’t have access, you’re in a hole.
Traditionally when looking to buy a car, even one that has been in a serious unrecorded shunt, is to stand by the HPI status. If Ferrari are now effectively recording their own register of work on cars, either they make this available to selling dealers or they are manipulating the market.
If the firm that sold you the car had access to the Ferrari data on the car and chose to ignore it or didn’t have access, you’re in a hole.
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