Discussion
Hello Everybody. How about a little Friday afternoon fun*, eh?
If anybody has experience of going from estates to SUVs or vice-versa, I'd love your feedback on what worked for you and why, please!
Problem statements/preferences:
- My car is dying (2010 Skoda Octavia vRS facelift, petrol, hatch)
- My car is too small for a family of 4 (I'm over 6' and long in the leg, so very limited space behind me)
- My wife doesn't like driving long cars (we do share driving on longer trips)
- By example of the above, we both prefer the maneuverability of our Octavia (4,569) compared to our previous 2005 Mondeo (4,731)
- Economy/environmental impact is important to us
- I'd like an auto or semi-auto, as driving around London in a manual is just Hellish
- My wife and kids like the higher up position of SUVs
Shortlist: (Note: all cars below £20k, so some previous generation models)
Skoda Superb 1.4/1.5 (Hatch acceptable due to opening and boot space, but simply not as cool...)
Pros:
- Loads of legroom!
- Ecomonical (>55 mpg on long drives; >40 urban)
- Some £35 VED
Cons:
- Looong! (4,861)
- DSG reliability?
- Erm...that's about it?
VW Passat 1.4/1.5 Estate
Pros:
- GTE adds hybrid option for the multiple school runs per week. We already have a wall-box for my wife's EV
Cons:
- Long (4,767)
- A bit pricier than the Superb
- Less rear legroom
- DSG reliability?
Skoda Kodiaq (Karoq is too small)
Pros:
- Plenty of space inside
- Not quite as long as estates above (4,967)
Cons:
- A brick, aerodynamically, which knocks ~10 mpg off the fuel economy compared to the VAG estates above
- DSG reliability?
KIA Sportage/Hyundai Tuscon
Pros:
- Cheaper than the Kodiaq
- Decent rear legroom for amid-sized SUV, particularly the Sportage
- Quite short/small footprint (Sportage = 4,480; Tuscon = 4,475)
Cons:
- Brick analogy
- Unecomical engines even before adding brick-ness
- Auto reliability woes from owners
Curveballs:
Ford Mondeo (hatch acceptable)
Pros:
- Much cheaper than Superb
Cons:
- PowerShift reputation
- Looong! (4,867)
Jaguar iPace
Pros:
- EV (that's a pro for me; please don't debate here: that's what the EV forums are for!)
- Spacious
Cons:
- Will need a warranty! (~£600/yr)
Citroen C5/C5X?
Hey, I did title this section curveballs...
Exclusions (not up for debate
)
- Tesla Model 3s are too small
- Tesla Model Ys are too expensive...
- ...as are Enyaqs, id4s, Ioniq 5s, EV6s etc.
- No Vauxhalls
- RAV4s too expensive
OK, and breathe.
On your marks...
...get set...
...GO!
If anybody has experience of going from estates to SUVs or vice-versa, I'd love your feedback on what worked for you and why, please!
Problem statements/preferences:
- My car is dying (2010 Skoda Octavia vRS facelift, petrol, hatch)
- My car is too small for a family of 4 (I'm over 6' and long in the leg, so very limited space behind me)
- My wife doesn't like driving long cars (we do share driving on longer trips)
- By example of the above, we both prefer the maneuverability of our Octavia (4,569) compared to our previous 2005 Mondeo (4,731)
- Economy/environmental impact is important to us
- I'd like an auto or semi-auto, as driving around London in a manual is just Hellish
- My wife and kids like the higher up position of SUVs
Shortlist: (Note: all cars below £20k, so some previous generation models)
Skoda Superb 1.4/1.5 (Hatch acceptable due to opening and boot space, but simply not as cool...)
Pros:
- Loads of legroom!
- Ecomonical (>55 mpg on long drives; >40 urban)
- Some £35 VED
Cons:
- Looong! (4,861)
- DSG reliability?
- Erm...that's about it?
VW Passat 1.4/1.5 Estate
Pros:
- GTE adds hybrid option for the multiple school runs per week. We already have a wall-box for my wife's EV
Cons:
- Long (4,767)
- A bit pricier than the Superb
- Less rear legroom
- DSG reliability?
Skoda Kodiaq (Karoq is too small)
Pros:
- Plenty of space inside
- Not quite as long as estates above (4,967)
Cons:
- A brick, aerodynamically, which knocks ~10 mpg off the fuel economy compared to the VAG estates above
- DSG reliability?
KIA Sportage/Hyundai Tuscon
Pros:
- Cheaper than the Kodiaq
- Decent rear legroom for amid-sized SUV, particularly the Sportage
- Quite short/small footprint (Sportage = 4,480; Tuscon = 4,475)
Cons:
- Brick analogy
- Unecomical engines even before adding brick-ness
- Auto reliability woes from owners
Curveballs:
Ford Mondeo (hatch acceptable)
Pros:
- Much cheaper than Superb
Cons:
- PowerShift reputation
- Looong! (4,867)
Jaguar iPace
Pros:
- EV (that's a pro for me; please don't debate here: that's what the EV forums are for!)
- Spacious
Cons:
- Will need a warranty! (~£600/yr)
Citroen C5/C5X?
Hey, I did title this section curveballs...
Exclusions (not up for debate
)- Tesla Model 3s are too small
- Tesla Model Ys are too expensive...
- ...as are Enyaqs, id4s, Ioniq 5s, EV6s etc.
- No Vauxhalls
- RAV4s too expensive
OK, and breathe.
On your marks...
...get set...
...GO!
* Subjective; not legally binding.
I cannot stress this enough - ESTATE!!!!
When I first had children, I made the classic mistake of thinking I "needed" an SUV, so obtained a BMW X3. Good car, very versatile, but aside from the minor benefit of not having to bend my back inserting children into the car, and perhaps a marginally bigger boot, I couldn't think of any other good reason for the X3 over the equivalent 3 series. I spent the entire 3 years of the PCP deal wishing I'd bought a 3 series.
The trade off is more expensive running costs (tyres wear out quicker and cost more + higher mpg), and the handling, even on an 'M light" M40D was horrible as you cannot disguise the high-centre of gravity sufficiently and maintain a ride that won't made the kids violently sick. I've since bought a Skoda Superb which is infinitely more practical, yet far less common at the school gates.... Having previously owned the Octavia vRS, I'm delighted with the Superb - cavernous rear legroom, and the 220 TSI has a decent turn of pace (and it comes in a lovely green/yellow if you're sufficiently brave )
When I first had children, I made the classic mistake of thinking I "needed" an SUV, so obtained a BMW X3. Good car, very versatile, but aside from the minor benefit of not having to bend my back inserting children into the car, and perhaps a marginally bigger boot, I couldn't think of any other good reason for the X3 over the equivalent 3 series. I spent the entire 3 years of the PCP deal wishing I'd bought a 3 series.
The trade off is more expensive running costs (tyres wear out quicker and cost more + higher mpg), and the handling, even on an 'M light" M40D was horrible as you cannot disguise the high-centre of gravity sufficiently and maintain a ride that won't made the kids violently sick. I've since bought a Skoda Superb which is infinitely more practical, yet far less common at the school gates.... Having previously owned the Octavia vRS, I'm delighted with the Superb - cavernous rear legroom, and the 220 TSI has a decent turn of pace (and it comes in a lovely green/yellow if you're sufficiently brave
)Fiisch said:
I cannot stress this enough - ESTATE!!!!
When I first had children, I made the classic mistake of thinking I "needed" an SUV, so obtained a BMW X3. Good car, very versatile, but aside from the minor benefit of not having to bend my back inserting children into the car, and perhaps a marginally bigger boot, I couldn't think of any other good reason for the X3 over the equivalent 3 series. I spent the entire 3 years of the PCP deal wishing I'd bought a 3 series.
The trade off is more expensive running costs (tyres wear out quicker and cost more + higher mpg), and the handling, even on an 'M light" M40D was horrible as you cannot disguise the high-centre of gravity sufficiently and maintain a ride that won't made the kids violently sick. I've since bought a Skoda Superb which is infinitely more practical, yet far less common at the school gates.... Having previously owned the Octavia vRS, I'm delighted with the Superb - cavernous rear legroom, and the 220 TSI has a decent turn of pace (and it comes in a lovely green/yellow if you're sufficiently brave )
Thanks Fiisch! Good to read you have a good experience with the Superb. When I first had children, I made the classic mistake of thinking I "needed" an SUV, so obtained a BMW X3. Good car, very versatile, but aside from the minor benefit of not having to bend my back inserting children into the car, and perhaps a marginally bigger boot, I couldn't think of any other good reason for the X3 over the equivalent 3 series. I spent the entire 3 years of the PCP deal wishing I'd bought a 3 series.
The trade off is more expensive running costs (tyres wear out quicker and cost more + higher mpg), and the handling, even on an 'M light" M40D was horrible as you cannot disguise the high-centre of gravity sufficiently and maintain a ride that won't made the kids violently sick. I've since bought a Skoda Superb which is infinitely more practical, yet far less common at the school gates.... Having previously owned the Octavia vRS, I'm delighted with the Superb - cavernous rear legroom, and the 220 TSI has a decent turn of pace (and it comes in a lovely green/yellow if you're sufficiently brave
)I'd love the lemony-lime, but it's only on the Sportline trim. This has rubber-band tyres, which both the wife and I are fed up of due to potholes mullering our wheels and suspension. Now I just want my arse cossetted and wallet un-battered during road driving! I'll save hooning for the track
.Shabaza said:
If image isnt a problem, the happy medium between estate and SUV would be an MPV
For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
I did tout that to Mrs Mulling, pointing out that its design intent meets many of our criteria (although it takes a similar economy-hit to SUVs due to aerodynamics).For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
We then saw one in a car park.
It's been vetoed.
Edited by Still Mulling on Friday 25th August 15:32
I think the opposite to fiisch. SUV or MPV all the way if you have young kids in car seats. Once they are out of car seats and can sort themselves out, don’t have tons of gubbins, then back to a normal hatchback or estate.
So I reckon the SUV or Estate debate depends on how old your family is?
I disagree the bending over is a minor inconvenience if you have toddlers or little kids unable to sort themselves out. 2 little terrors, school run to nursery and junior school, that is a lot of bending over in 20min, twice a day, just for the buckling them in and out. Plus all the additional bending over if one of them pees their pants, drops something and you have to clean up etc. etc.
The higher boot line is better able to take little bikes, scooters and push chairs, dump jackets on top etc without pushing against the parcel shelf. With a deep boot, a folding pushchair can be slid in on its side vertically, taking up a slither of space against the side of the boot rather than having to lay it flat etc.
I’m looking for a family car too, so far have tried:
Ford Galaxy. Mrs liked it. Little terrors silent on the matter. Was refined and had a good ride, but at 4848mm long, a bit bus like. Loads of storage cubbies, very deep boot, 3 individual seats on the middle bench were massive bonuses.
Volvo XC40. Mrs liked it. One little terror liked it a lot, said it was really comfortable. Also refined with a good ride. 4450mm, a touch on the small side however.
Kia Sportage. Mrs neutral. Little terrors said it made them feel sick. Noisier and bumpier than the two above. Very good size at 4515mm.
Tesla Model Y. Mrs hated it because of its harsh ride. Tesla don’t do extended test drives, so the terrors didn’t get a say. Noisiest and bumpiest of all, although the tech was superb and size was good again at 4751mm. Probably the biggest I would want to go however.
The Sportage was the best size, something around 4600mm. Big enough to swallow all the gubbins, small enough not to feel too bus like driving around town and parking.
So I reckon the SUV or Estate debate depends on how old your family is?
I disagree the bending over is a minor inconvenience if you have toddlers or little kids unable to sort themselves out. 2 little terrors, school run to nursery and junior school, that is a lot of bending over in 20min, twice a day, just for the buckling them in and out. Plus all the additional bending over if one of them pees their pants, drops something and you have to clean up etc. etc.
The higher boot line is better able to take little bikes, scooters and push chairs, dump jackets on top etc without pushing against the parcel shelf. With a deep boot, a folding pushchair can be slid in on its side vertically, taking up a slither of space against the side of the boot rather than having to lay it flat etc.
I’m looking for a family car too, so far have tried:
Ford Galaxy. Mrs liked it. Little terrors silent on the matter. Was refined and had a good ride, but at 4848mm long, a bit bus like. Loads of storage cubbies, very deep boot, 3 individual seats on the middle bench were massive bonuses.
Volvo XC40. Mrs liked it. One little terror liked it a lot, said it was really comfortable. Also refined with a good ride. 4450mm, a touch on the small side however.
Kia Sportage. Mrs neutral. Little terrors said it made them feel sick. Noisier and bumpier than the two above. Very good size at 4515mm.
Tesla Model Y. Mrs hated it because of its harsh ride. Tesla don’t do extended test drives, so the terrors didn’t get a say. Noisiest and bumpiest of all, although the tech was superb and size was good again at 4751mm. Probably the biggest I would want to go however.
The Sportage was the best size, something around 4600mm. Big enough to swallow all the gubbins, small enough not to feel too bus like driving around town and parking.
Edited by wyson on Friday 25th August 16:38
wyson said:
So I reckon the SUV or Estate debate depends on how old your family is?
That could be key here. Mine are a bit older and self-sufficient now, so the benefits of access for parental-support are not required.I also prefer the thought of a roof-mounted bike-rack to boot-, as in my mind maneuvering will be easier and I'm less likely to crush bikes!
Roof-mounted will be challenging on an SUV, even at my height.
I will be measuring carefully, and judging tunnels etc. accordingly, I hasten to add...
andburg said:
Other options would be a jacked up estate?
Octavia scout etc
Or if you want a nicer interior, Volvo V90CC or V60CC.Octavia scout etc
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306238...
I went from an E53 X5 4.8iS to an E61 520d Estate(Touring). Forgetting the engines for a minute, because the V8 in the X5 was lovely, and the 4 cylinder diesel in the 520d wasn't lovely, the 520d definitely drove better for me. The 520d was around 500kg lighter than the X5, so it braked better, went around corners better and the steering was also better.
However I've had 2 more SUVs since the 520d(a Merc GLC350d and a Merc GLE400d), whereas I haven't had another Estate though. If driving is your priority then I'd go for an Estate, but if cruising is more your priority then for me an SUV has the edge I reckon.
However I've had 2 more SUVs since the 520d(a Merc GLC350d and a Merc GLE400d), whereas I haven't had another Estate though. If driving is your priority then I'd go for an Estate, but if cruising is more your priority then for me an SUV has the edge I reckon.
Shabaza said:
If image isnt a problem, the happy medium between estate and SUV would be an MPV
Going on the OPs suggested priorities (maximum space economy, ease of use and utility, minimum footprint) that has to be the answer.Just about every SUV on the list (and most small SUVs in general) is effectively an MPV that has been compromised by additional ground clearance and SUV style cues; so why not do the real, uncompromised version?
(I've positive memories of the first generation Scenic - from a simply functional pov that was a superb car, and an entirety passable drive by the standards of its time.)
I've owned a few variants of both.
Depends which you value more, the larger and better proportioned boot or the higher driving position.
I'd guess something like a full fat RR does the best impression of both. Or maybe an Allroad or XC70.
Depends which you value more, the larger and better proportioned boot or the higher driving position.
I'd guess something like a full fat RR does the best impression of both. Or maybe an Allroad or XC70.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 25th August 18:10
Still Mulling said:
Shabaza said:
If image isnt a problem, the happy medium between estate and SUV would be an MPV
For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
I did tout that to Mrs Mulling, pointing out that its design intent meets many of our criteria (although it takes a similar economy-hit to SUVs due to aerodynamics).For example a VW touran (the boot) is much more spacious then the passat/superb/kodiaq when the rear 2 seats are folded (when height from roof to floor is also taken into account).
We then saw one in a car park.
It's been vetoed.
Edited by Still Mulling on Friday 25th August 15:32
Nissan Elgrand, Honda Stepwgn and Toyota Alphard/Vellfire.
They do some very high end versions, everything from 4 to 8 seats.
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