Early 350Z v Late 350Z v Early 370Z

[liner33]

Shifter1 said:

Hmm, did you see I put French in quotes? My point is, it's a pretty unespecial engine, with variants being used in all sorts of cars, Nissan and Renault. Renault basically owns Nissan. Google Renault V4Y engine.

No they basically dont , Renault has 43% of Nissan and Nissan has 15% of Renault its a development partnership, the VQ engine is a Nissan NOT a Renault engine and was later developed into the VR engines used in the R35 GTR and it can trace a lot of its dna back to the 390 Le Man cars whose engines were sold to TWR and later used as the base for some McLaren's , its also multi award winning , "unespecial" it is not

[coldel]

Yorkshire_LY said:

well,one is Japanese and one is German for a start hehe. Just a comparison id never thought of,mind you BMWs have never really appealed to me.

People also saying interior is really important on here - the 350's is fine imo...has the dials,leather heated seats,air con,cruise control etc its not bad for a nearly 20 year old car.

Another thing i noticed today while looking at mine in the car park next to modern hatches - is how 'small' it relatively is compared to new cars. Even next to a modern Fiesta. You think a 350 would be quite 'muscley' and big,but it really isnt.

I used to think that of German cars, but once you actually drive a few of their sports range you realise they have as much character and ability to offer as their Japanese counterparts. For every dull german car there is a dull japanese one too!

The 350z interior is 'fine' its not great, whereas the Z4 is much better. Even though they are both the same age and era you can just feel the difference throughout its noticeably a class above you just dont notice it until you sit in something other than the 350z. But in terms of comparison they are I think very comparable from a perspective of that GTesque rwd two seater font engined 6 cylinder type car.

[Yorkshire_LY]

coldel said:

I used to think that of German cars, but once you actually drive a few of their sports range you realise they have as much character and ability to offer as their Japanese counterparts. For every dull german car there is a dull japanese one too!

The 350z interior is 'fine' its not great, whereas the Z4 is much better. Even though they are both the same age and era you can just feel the difference throughout its noticeably a class above you just dont notice it until you sit in something other than the 350z. But in terms of comparison they are I think very comparable from a perspective of that GTesque rwd two seater font engined 6 cylinder type car.

Just looking at AT,yeah i can see the comparison with the Z4....but why doesnt the Cayman come into this conversation aswell?

[cerb4.5lee]

Yorkshire_LY said:

Just looking at AT,yeah i can see the comparison with the Z4....but why doesnt the Cayman come into this conversation aswell?

Caymans and Boxsters do get mentioned in some of the reviews of them I've read, because performance wise they punch above their weight especially for the money. Obviously they are a different car to those(brawn versus precision if you like), but that is a compliment either way I reckon still.

[TameRacingDriver]

Crikey, a lot to process in this thread today I'll try and address some of your points below...

Ryan_T said:

In short, I really rate 350s, especially for the money - I’m on my second after having a lot of spicier more expensive stuff in between. I think they’re an excellent all-round package, and with a few select modifications really sharpen & wake up into a fun fast road / track car.

2007 HR’d engine cars are the best, come with the better CD009 gearbox too - But the tax would irritate me. 2006 rev-ups are the worst in having the high tax rate but also the oil burning issues.

I have a DE - loads of aftermarket support, cheap(ish) parts / spares, great forum, super robust, reliable, capable, fun, easy to work on, GTs come with Brembo brakes, I think they still look great. What’s not to like?

Yours is a nice looking Z, thanks for sharing.

I didn't realise the revups were oil burners. I'll maybe look to avoid that, though every car I seem to buy seems to end up burning some (or a lot) of oil! My MX5 is no different in fact, burning through at least 1L every 1000 miles, though it is running +40 bhp over standard and with nearly 140K on the clock, so I think I can forgive it for that. The tax, not going to lie, is irritating, so I'd probably want to plump for the HR for the extra power, or the 370Z, otherwise, the DE seems to be the way to go, IF you can find a decent one for not too much money.

Yorkshire_LY said:

Im not sure why theres such a big comparision with the Z4 in this thread,i thought they were pretty different cars. Plus,id say seeing a 350Z on the road would be more special than seeing a Z4...they just seem more rare to me. I live in West Yorkshire and i never see any other Z's about. And if i saw a Z4 about i wouldnt be straining my neck haha.

For me they are obvious rivals. Even down to the fact Evo did a comparison of the two, and I'm sure that's not the only one. It's quite simple for me. 6-cylinders. RWD. 2-seats. Both bridge the gap between sports and GT like capabilities. Even the price is similar. They are definitely rivals.

cerb4.5lee said:

With hindsight now I'd definitely go for a V8 for my weekend car, because I feel that the V6 in the 370 doesn't quite warrant the £630 a year tax(neither did the S54 engine). So for me I'd try to get my hands on the biggest cylinder/capacity engine that I could get my hands on I reckon. If only the SLK55 AMG(or similar) came with a manual gearbox!

I would like to as well, but the problem I have with V8s is one mostly of affordability. I'm a PHer who is probably more torwards the bottom of the affordability scale when it comes to cars. If I could simply go out and buy a TVR, AMG Merc etc and not have sleepless nights about the money for a car that I use occasionally at weekends, I really would.

As it is I thought I could maybe 'pretend' to be in something exotic in one of these

Shifter1 said:

I think the Z4 wins in interior and engine. Regardless of M or not. Both engines are just more charismatic than the "French" one in the 350Z IMO. The V6 in the 350Z is just not in the same pantheon as the BMW straight 6, Jaguar straight 6, Busso V6, 2JZ etc. Just way less special I think.

Ryan_T said:

I think that’s perhaps applicable to the base DE engine, but by all accounts the later HR engines are a different animal, 80% new internals - Revs 1k higher to 7.5k etc.

I can't comment on the S54, as I've sadly not experienced one, but I'm interested to know why you don't think the engine is as special in the 350Z / 370Z ? My old 350ZR was modded, admittedly, but that sounded as close to a supercar as I've ever had in any of my cars, and mine was only a DE I believe (although annoyingly still came with rapey tax).

I liked the N52 in the Z4C, and while it was admittedly standard except for the foam mod, and despite it having a nice howl when revved out, it simply couldn't match my old 350ZR for sheer grins when giving it some, especially under tunnels and bridges. I would really need to hear a modified N52 to be fair, but if that sounds better than my old Datsun with those mods then I would start leaning towards the Z4C for sure I reckon.

Shifter1 said:

I think the drive is more important if it's a weekend car. In a daily driver I would say interior is just as important. Even in a weekend car. Unless it's an ultra lightweight sports car you are driving 10/10 and grabbing by the scruff of the neck the whole time, such as Elise, VX220 or MX5, a nice interior makes it all that much more enjoyable to me.

That is a thought provoking comment though, as this car is not a daily (maybe it might become one if circumstances change but I'm not expecting it), because I have a 200 bhp MX5 and it's probably going to be more fun on a hoon than either option, I've already kind of accepted that, but at the same time, the interior in it is actually pretty good I reckon, even compared with those cars it's not completely outclassed, so perhaps the sensible answer would be to keep this?

Shifter1 said:

I agree with your last paragraph. getting a V8 for the weekend and all. And we are quickly getting into "it's now or never" time for that.

Speaking to some petrolhead friends from Germany, they were saying that over there, slowly big engine cars are becoming harder to sell, with many examples not selling even after some price drops, including classic cars with V8s etc. People just don't want them with the eminent ICE ban on the horizon and the horrible gas prices.

And slowly people are starting to frown upon cars with big engines. With protest groups going around and emptying all tyres of things like SUV etc, the writing is on the wall bigger than ever. Get that special V8, V10, V12 now.

cerb4.5lee said:

If I'd never experienced a V8(I've had 3 over the years), I'd be doing anything that I could to get my hands on one now as you say(I'd still love another one for sure). It is definitely feeling like "last chance saloon" time.

OK, you folks should stop trying to tease me with unobtainable machines Are there really any exciting V8 cars out there that aren't a Monaro (I get it, but I really don't like the looks), LHD (pretty much any yank car then), or a financially ruinous second hand Jag / Merc, that cost £10k or under?

cerb4.5lee said:

Yorkshire_LY said:

Just looking at AT,yeah i can see the comparison with the Z4....but why doesnt the Cayman come into this conversation aswell?

Caymans and Boxsters do get mentioned in some of the reviews of them I've read, because performance wise they punch above their weight especially for the money. Obviously they are a different car to those(brawn versus precision if you like), but that is a compliment either way I reckon still.

I haven't ruled out a Cayman. I absolutely love them. However, as an ex Boxster S owner (that sadly only had it briefly for reasons out of my control), I do worry about the potential borkage, which is a shame as a 300 bhp mid engined coupe for £12K sounds amazing. I did enjoy my Boxster S, but it did seem a bit 'serious' though, even though it was highly capable.

[Strudul]

Ryan_T said:

I wrote a big old reply but managed to lose it before submitting. Classic.
2007 HR’d engine cars are the best, come with the better CD009 gearbox too - But the tax would irritate me. 2006 rev-ups are the worst in having the high tax rate but also the oil burning issues.

I have a DE - loads of aftermarket support, cheap(ish) parts / spares, great forum, super robust, reliable, capable, fun, easy to work on, GTs come with Brembo brakes, I think they still look great. What’s not to like?

Just to clear up some bits:
- The HR has a JK4XX, not CD009, which is standard on RevUp and later DE.
- RevUps often burn oil, but it's not really a problem as long as you keep it topped up, and the extra £20 a year on oil is negligible.


The extra power of Rev Up / HR isn't really worth the premium, but other factors (facelift interior / LED lights) arguably are.

DE (03-05):
- 276bhp
- most torque
- 6.5k redline
- single intake
- variety of gearboxes

RevUp (05-07):
- 300bhp
- least torque
- 7k redline
- improved intake
- facelift exterior and interior (inc HID headlights and LED tail lights)
- variable intake and exhaust timing
- upgraded ECU
- improved CD009 gearbox

HR (07-09):
- 313bhp
- 7.5k redline
- dual intake
- RevUp facelift but with bonnet bulge
- variable intake and exhaust timing
- upgraded ECU
- JK4XX gearbox (with CSC)

[Shifter1]

liner33 said:

Shifter1 said:

Hmm, did you see I put French in quotes? My point is, it's a pretty unespecial engine, with variants being used in all sorts of cars, Nissan and Renault. Renault basically owns Nissan. Google Renault V4Y engine.

No they basically dont , Renault has 43% of Nissan and Nissan has 15% of Renault its a development partnership, the VQ engine is a Nissan NOT a Renault engine and was later developed into the VR engines used in the R35 GTR and it can trace a lot of its dna back to the 390 Le Man cars whose engines were sold to TWR and later used as the base for some McLaren's , its also multi award winning , "unespecial" it is not

Renault controls Nissan. They have the majority from any other owner. The rest of your post, not really sure it's worth it the back and forth time. I think you know what I'm talking about, but choose to be defensive. It's nothing personal It's just what it is.

[Shifter1]

TameRacingDriver said:

Shifter1 said:

I think the Z4 wins in interior and engine. Regardless of M or not. Both engines are just more charismatic than the "French" one in the 350Z IMO. The V6 in the 350Z is just not in the same pantheon as the BMW straight 6, Jaguar straight 6, Busso V6, 2JZ etc. Just way less special I think.

Ryan_T said:

I think that’s perhaps applicable to the base DE engine, but by all accounts the later HR engines are a different animal, 80% new internals - Revs 1k higher to 7.5k etc.

I can't comment on the S54, as I've sadly not experienced one, but I'm interested to know why you don't think the engine is as special in the 350Z / 370Z ?

It's not the case of it not being a good engine. But when you hear talks of the great engines in modern history, or great 6 cylinders etc, you don't really hear the Nissan brought up. You hear 2JZ, Busso, Jag straight 6, BMW 6s, even the TVR Speed 6. If you see the Nissan being thrown in, the person probably owns a 350Z or 370Z. Otherwise, it's just that good V6 which was also in the Renault Espace. Know where I'm coming from? It has nothing to do with power and how good. Look at the Busso. It doesn't even make a lot of power. But yet it's legendary. Specialness is more than just competence. The Speed 6 a good engine? Doesn't matter. Is it special? Probably more so than the Nissan.

I'm not trying to put the 350Z down or anything. Like I said, I like the car. Between it and the Z4 I'm not sure I would go with the Z4. But I think the Z4 has the better interior and the more charismatic engine. Like the Corvette. Kills many supercars and is a great sports car. But lacks being truly special. It's a bunch of good and competent parts bolted on together. Has nothing to do with it being good or not. It's a great sports car. Better than many things costing a lot more. Two different things.

Anyway, carry on and don't mind me. For the money you can't really go wrong with either 350Z or Z4C. I would take either over most brand new sports cars today.

[Yorkshire_LY]

The one thing that lets the older Z4's down for me is the front end,i think its pretty ugly. The headlights and that grill dont do anything for me. So that one thing would put me off hehe.

Actually,i see they redesigned it around 2010 - the front end does look a lot better imo. But did they stop doing the hard top after a certain year?

Edited by Yorkshire_LY on Tuesday 24th January 22:22

[Hammer67]

Might as well jump in here. My 05 GT.

Pictured here in the Lake District in September. Bought on a bit of a whim in August after my Primera GT was written off. Out of pure coincidence came from a friend/customer who had kept it for 10 years alongside a GTR with very little use in that time. Has a few mods, HFCs with full Invidia exhaust which sounds great, sunset orange with black painted bonnet and roof. Dotz GTRs with 19s rear and 18s front which I`m not totally convinced about. Might go back to some Rays.

Was a bit dubious about doing the Lakes trip from deepest Kent after only a month with it so took some brave pills, changed the oil and trusted to luck. Fortunately it was rock solid over 1100 miles in 10 days whilst returning mid 30s mpg, more miles than it had done in the previous 2 years combined.
Even Mrs H was impressed with the old girl.

It has no Nissan badges and it`s quite surprising the number of people who don`t know what it is and since August I`ve only seen 2 others.

Should have bought one 5 years ago when I sold my old 300ZX.


2

[Shifter1]

Hammer67 said:

Might as well jump in here. My 05 GT.

Pictured here in the Lake District in September. Bought on a bit of a whim in August after my Primera GT was written off. Out of pure coincidence came from a friend/customer who had kept it for 10 years alongside a GTR with very little use in that time. Has a few mods, HFCs with full Invidia exhaust which sounds great, sunset orange with black painted bonnet and roof. Dotz GTRs with 19s rear and 18s front which I`m not totally convinced about. Might go back to some Rays.

Was a bit dubious about doing the Lakes trip from deepest Kent after only a month with it so took some brave pills, changed the oil and trusted to luck. Fortunately it was rock solid over 1100 miles in 10 days whilst returning mid 30s mpg, more miles than it had done in the previous 2 years combined.
Even Mrs H was impressed with the old girl.

It has no Nissan badges and it`s quite surprising the number of people who don`t know what it is and since August I`ve only seen 2 others.

Should have bought one 5 years ago when I sold my old 300ZX.


2

So what badges it has on?

[Unreal]

I tend to think of exhaust rather than engine sound. Exhaust note and volume are very much a matter of personal taste. Plenty of people are happy with standard but the cars can sound fantastic with an after market exhaust. Be careful because you can easily find that what initially sounds great and is fun on the test drive may be too much day to day. Everyone turning to look when you start the car can be embarrassing and plenty of after market exhausts drone or make conversation difficult at speed. It's increasingly difficult to find standard cars.

[cerb4.5lee]

Yorkshire_LY said:

The one thing that lets the older Z4's down for me is the front end,i think its pretty ugly. The headlights and that grill dont do anything for me. So that one thing would put me off hehe.

Actually,i see they redesigned it around 2010 - the front end does look a lot better imo. But did they stop doing the hard top after a certain year?

Edited by Yorkshire_LY on Tuesday 24th January 22:22

BMW went back to a fabric roof with the current generation of Z4 in 2019 I think. I did like the folding metal hard top on the previous generation E89 Z4 though. Plus the E89 Z4 looked lovely from the front as you say, but the rear wasn't quite as well resolved to my eyes though.

[cerb4.5lee]

Unreal said:

I tend to think of exhaust rather than engine sound. Exhaust note and volume are very much a matter of personal taste. Plenty of people are happy with standard but the cars can sound fantastic with an after market exhaust. Be careful because you can easily find that what initially sounds great and is fun on the test drive may be too much day to day. Everyone turning to look when you start the car can be embarrassing and plenty of after market exhausts drone or make conversation difficult at speed. It's increasingly difficult to find standard cars.

The exhaust on my 370Z is definitely too loud to use everyday as you say(especially with the roof up). The cold start is mega loud too! I personally love it because I'm a bit attention seeking, plus I was used to lots of noise with the TVR as well. The M4 on the other hand is as quiet as a mouse because of the OPFs, and that makes me a bit sad noise wise to be honest. But you can use that everyday and go under the radar though. So it is swings and roundabouts I think.

[Hammer67]

Shifter1 said:

So what badges it has on?

These chaps, front and back.

[Unreal]

cerb4.5lee said:

Unreal said:

I tend to think of exhaust rather than engine sound. Exhaust note and volume are very much a matter of personal taste. Plenty of people are happy with standard but the cars can sound fantastic with an after market exhaust. Be careful because you can easily find that what initially sounds great and is fun on the test drive may be too much day to day. Everyone turning to look when you start the car can be embarrassing and plenty of after market exhausts drone or make conversation difficult at speed. It's increasingly difficult to find standard cars.

The exhaust on my 370Z is definitely too loud to use everyday as you say(especially with the roof up). The cold start is mega loud too! I personally love it because I'm a bit attention seeking, plus I was used to lots of noise with the TVR as well. The M4 on the other hand is as quiet as a mouse because of the OPFs, and that makes me a bit sad noise wise to be honest. But you can use that everyday and go under the radar though. So it is swings and roundabouts I think.

If we're going to have some pics here's my DE Roadster. Completely standard afaik. I think it sounds great.

Roadsters were a lot cheaper for a while and a bit unloved but I think their time has come, as it usually does with any convertible. Easier to find unmodified than the coupe too.

[cerb4.5lee]

Unreal said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Unreal said:

I tend to think of exhaust rather than engine sound. Exhaust note and volume are very much a matter of personal taste. Plenty of people are happy with standard but the cars can sound fantastic with an after market exhaust. Be careful because you can easily find that what initially sounds great and is fun on the test drive may be too much day to day. Everyone turning to look when you start the car can be embarrassing and plenty of after market exhausts drone or make conversation difficult at speed. It's increasingly difficult to find standard cars.

The exhaust on my 370Z is definitely too loud to use everyday as you say(especially with the roof up). The cold start is mega loud too! I personally love it because I'm a bit attention seeking, plus I was used to lots of noise with the TVR as well. The M4 on the other hand is as quiet as a mouse because of the OPFs, and that makes me a bit sad noise wise to be honest. But you can use that everyday and go under the radar though. So it is swings and roundabouts I think.

If we're going to have some pics here's my DE Roadster. Completely standard afaik. I think it sounds great.

Roadsters were a lot cheaper for a while and a bit unloved but I think their time has come, as it usually does with any convertible. Easier to find unmodified than the coupe too.

That looks really nice and I love the colour combo.

I test drove a new 350Z Roadster back in 2006 and I loved it, and that helped loads with me really wanting a Nissan Z car one day.

I'll join in with the pics too then!

[liner33]

Shifter1 said:

It's nothing personal It's just what it is.

Yep inaccurate

[coldel]

Wow loads to unpack TRD !

In terms of the Cayman, I think it drops outside the debate in terms of cost. 6k-12k gets you a reliable 350/370/z4. That sort of money is getting you a bottom of the barrel leggy Cayman. Additionally, the upkeep costs of the Zeds vs a Porsche are eye-watering.

In terms of looks of the front of the Z4C, all subjective of course, but I think they look fantastic from the front lol and how the sides of the car incorporate a Z.

[cerb4.5lee]

Some pics of my old Z4M TRD if you can be tempted back into one!

Edited by cerb4.5lee on Wednesday 25th January 10:51