Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 21]

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

I think Ford sorted their quality issues out in the late 90s, by the time the Mk1 Focus and Mk5 Fiesta/Puma came along they were very decent machines, at least the European ones were. The American stuff I've got no idea. The early 90s dross was the really low watermark over here, I remember seeing an 18 month old Escort in the mid 90s which was already rusting.

They really had, but I think the reputation damage was huge and set in stone. Certainly when the X type came out very few people had any image of Ford as a "quality" brand so the association was hardly positive.

VW did have an image as a quality brand, so knowing your expensive A4 was 80% out of the VAG parts bin wasn't such an issue.

[Swervin_Mervin]

E90_M3Ross said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

Krikkit said:

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Output Flange said:

E90_M3Ross said:

Yep, a modern ZF 8 speed would be much better. Engine though....what would you pick?

Crossing the streams a touch, but something like the supercharged V6 from the 2014-era S4.

If you really must desecrate such a thing, would you not use BMWs own turbo 6?

N52 with a ZF8 would be glorious fun

The ZF8 wouldn't suit it at all. It's too fussy. A sorted ZF6 would be perfect. N52 might be a bit gutless for such a barge as well, and I love my N52.

I find the ZF8 pretty good, have only used it in the Jag F Type R though, which obviously has a lot of power to pull a tall gear so perhaps that doesn't hunt for gears as much? I think 300bhp would be a nice amount with the right gearbox. I think much more, with such a dated chassis, may be a bit scary. Perhaps the engine from an old 335i.

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

[E90_M3Ross]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

The DCT is the M3 is very good as an auto. Incredibly smooth. Only thing is that it doesn't "creep", which is not as ideal in traffic. One irritating thing is that when you start it up it defaults to setting "2/5" which is very economical and changes up very early. It shifts into 7th at 35mph or so! Fine for mooching but anything else setting 3 is better..... Or manual mode 5/5 for fun.

[anonymous-user]

Bit of a random question but have Fiat ever made anything worthy of barge status? I think most other manufacturers have at one stage made something that we would all agree would be classed as a barge.

Even companies like Kia and Hyundai make cars for their domestic market that are definitely barges.

[5 In a Row]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

My 4 series has the ZF 8 speed and it doesn't have these issues. Perhaps it's helped by that being a 3 litre diesel (I'm really risking a ban/some abuse by saying these things), I haven't tried a 2 litre with te ZF
It's certainly less 'shuffly' than the 4 speed auto in my mighty Kia Cee'd (a 1.6 diesel).

I ad a Toyota Alphard with a 4 speed auto and that didn't shuffle much either but it was the 3 litre so perhaps the Yanks were always right about the number of cubic inches your motor is packing.

[5 In a Row]

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Bit of a random question but have Fiat ever made anything worthy of barge status? I think most other manufacturers have at one stage made something that we would all agree would be classed as a barge.

Even companies like Kia and Hyundai make cars for their domestic market that are definitely barges.

130 in coupe or 4 door saloon.
Best bought with a nice orange interior for that proper 70s look

[Bannock]

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Bit of a random question but have Fiat ever made anything worthy of barge status? I think most other manufacturers have at one stage made something that we would all agree would be classed as a barge.

Even companies like Kia and Hyundai make cars for their domestic market that are definitely barges.

Mk 1 Croma was the last one really (same car as SAAB 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema). Before that the 130 (mentioned above), 132 and the Argenta.

I are sad. I liked big FIATs. I still miss the mid-sized FIAT saloons I owned, the Regata and the Marea. The latter was really rather good and criminally under-rated.

[Krikkit]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

Sounds like it's a poor coding problem on BMW's part - the Jags I've driven and passengered in with it were buttery smooth and had the right ratio when you wanted. The 8 is effectively a 6 with overdrive on two gears, so you've got a well-matched set of ratios to start, then a few overdrive gears for cruising when you want it, so it should be the best of both worlds.

[anonymous-user]

5 In a Row said:

130 in coupe or 4 door saloon.
Best bought with a nice orange interior for that proper 70s look

Aha. I've just googled it and this came up:


https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1497087#&gi...

(I know its a Friday budget but I plan to be nowhere near a computer for the entirety of tomorrow. That is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)

Looking at the the front on view, I now know where this emoji came from:


I'm not convinced by the looks of the thing.

Bannock said:

Mk 1 Croma was the last one really (same car as SAAB 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema). Before that the 130 (mentioned above), 132 and the Argenta.

I are sad. I liked big FIATs. I still miss the mid-sized FIAT saloons I owned, the Regata and the Marea. The latter was really rather good and criminally under-rated.

My Father had a Marea Weekend with a five cylinder petrol in it. It sounded surprising good and actually was quite a nice thing to shuffle around in, for what it was.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 16th March 13:44

[5 In a Row]

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Aha. I've just googled it and this came up:


https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1497087#&gi...

(I know its a Friday budget but I plan to be nowhere near a computer for the entirety of tomorrow. That is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)

Looking at the the front on view, I now know where this emoji came from:


I'm not convinced by the looks of the thing.

Look at that swish velour interior.

Designed around the time of the Rolls Camargue by the same people.
This is infinitely nicer than the Rolls.

[Macron]

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Bit of a random question but have Fiat ever made anything worthy of barge status?

They've produced many a vehicle capable of bills that make adults cry, which is defo a strong feature of barging.

There is appreciation of the Panda 4x4 on thread, which like a Renault 5 Monaco (pref in 1.7, but we'd take 1.4 petrol form) is an honorary barge accompaniment.

[anonymous-user]

Macron said:

They've produced many a vehicle capable of bills that make adults cry, which is defo a strong feature of barging.

There is appreciation of the Panda 4x4 on thread, which like a Renault 5 Monaco (pref in 1.7, but we'd take 1.4 petrol form) is an honorary barge accompaniment.

The Renault I understand on account of it's very barge like plush interior but the Panda 4x4? I suppose they make a good tender to go with your barge. For nipping to the shops and stuff,

[carinaman]

5 In a Row said:

Wulf Sternhammer said:

Aha. I've just googled it and this came up:


https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1497087#&gi...

(I know its a Friday budget but I plan to be nowhere near a computer for the entirety of tomorrow. That is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)

Looking at the the front on view, I now know where this emoji came from:


I'm not convinced by the looks of the thing.

Look at that swish velour interior.

Designed around the time of the Rolls Camargue by the same people.
This is infinitely nicer than the Rolls.

After that comment I, I know it's Pininfarina, but I saw a bit of Lancia Gamma Coupe from the side glass and C pillar.

[Swervin_Mervin]

5 In a Row said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

My 4 series has the ZF 8 speed and it doesn't have these issues. Perhaps it's helped by that being a 3 litre diesel (I'm really risking a ban/some abuse by saying these things), I haven't tried a 2 litre with te ZF
It's certainly less 'shuffly' than the 4 speed auto in my mighty Kia Cee'd (a 1.6 diesel).

I ad a Toyota Alphard with a 4 speed auto and that didn't shuffle much either but it was the 3 litre so perhaps the Yanks were always right about the number of cubic inches your motor is packing.

I could see a ZF8 working better with a diesel kump - diesels have a short band so more gears is a good thing to exploit that short-lived grunt. But on a wafty barge, and with something that can make use of a good rev range, I just don't think it's necessary. Around town it shuffled around so much, it rapidly became irritating and tiring - my ageing ZF6 was far more relaxing. That's effectively a 5-spd with overdrive and it's perfect for wafting.

[5 In a Row]

Swervin_Mervin said:

5 In a Row said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

I don't like the ZF8 - not in any BMWs I've driven with it anyway. I just found it hugely irritating. Maybe Jag map theirs better? It was always shuffling about, often dimwitted and in the wrong gear, occasionally very agricultural with the shifts slamming home, and it always just felt like there was at least 1 gear too many. In a car with plenty of torque, and that you want to waft in, you just don't need 8 gears. A well sorted 6spd slusher is perfect for that role.

My 4 series has the ZF 8 speed and it doesn't have these issues. Perhaps it's helped by that being a 3 litre diesel (I'm really risking a ban/some abuse by saying these things), I haven't tried a 2 litre with te ZF
It's certainly less 'shuffly' than the 4 speed auto in my mighty Kia Cee'd (a 1.6 diesel).

I ad a Toyota Alphard with a 4 speed auto and that didn't shuffle much either but it was the 3 litre so perhaps the Yanks were always right about the number of cubic inches your motor is packing.

I could see a ZF8 working better with a diesel kump - diesels have a short band so more gears is a good thing to exploit that short-lived grunt. But on a wafty barge, and with something that can make use of a good rev range, I just don't think it's necessary. Around town it shuffled around so much, it rapidly became irritating and tiring - my ageing ZF6 was far more relaxing. That's effectively a 5-spd with overdrive and it's perfect for wafting.

I did test drive a 430i (2 litre petrol turbo) with the ZF 8speed and was amazed to find it was in 7th gear at a steady 30. That seemed odd and the perfect platform for a lot of shuffling.

[SimonTheSailor]

Might interest some - aloominum cars

Audi A8 v Jaguar X350

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4dwajD0Mc

(You lot probably know more than him but it entertained me for 11 minutes......)

[anonymous-user]

I really need to have a go in an aluminium XJ6. I have driven an original 1980's 4.2 XJ and I absolutely loved it. The lowly XJ6 V6 beats it on paper but folk still seem to unfairly disregard it as the poorest member of the Aluminium XJ family.

[Mammasaid]

Mini barge with famous antecedents anyone?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-wor...

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Wulf Sternhammer said:

5 In a Row said:

130 in coupe or 4 door saloon.
Best bought with a nice orange interior for that proper 70s look

Aha. I've just googled it and this came up:


https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1497087#&gi...

(I know its a Friday budget but I plan to be nowhere near a computer for the entirety of tomorrow. That is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)

Looking at the the front on view, I now know where this emoji came from:


I'm not convinced by the looks of the thing.

Bannock said:

Mk 1 Croma was the last one really (same car as SAAB 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema). Before that the 130 (mentioned above), 132 and the Argenta.

I are sad. I liked big FIATs. I still miss the mid-sized FIAT saloons I owned, the Regata and the Marea. The latter was really rather good and criminally under-rated.

My Father had a Marea Weekend with a five cylinder petrol in it. It sounded surprising good and actually was quite a nice thing to shuffle around in, for what it was.

Edited by Wulf Sternhammer on Thursday 16th March 13:44

The 2 or 4 door Fiat 130 is one of the coolest cars ever to have turned a wheel. Much want here.

[tog]

CharlesdeGaulle said:

The 2 or 4 door Fiat 130 is one of the coolest cars ever to have turned a wheel. Much want here.

I'll have mine in 3-door please. Shooting brake made for Gianni Agnelli, one of two or possibly three built. Eventador, perhaps?