EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
DonkeyApple said:
...
It'll be interesting to see how BYD open up the U.K. market. Someone like that is a huge potential threat to an ICE manufacturer trying to hit 22% EV sales.
I saw this article and thought of your post. Seems like BYD are indeed setting their sights on the UK/EU market.... It'll be interesting to see how BYD open up the U.K. market. Someone like that is a huge potential threat to an ICE manufacturer trying to hit 22% EV sales.
https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/178894121...
https://fortune.com/europe/2024/05/10/byd-tesla-eu...
It's going to need to be in the 30-50% range IMO to really stem the flow of Chinese made cars.
ChocolateFrog said:
I wonder at what level they'll set the tariffs.
It's going to need to be in the 30-50% range IMO to really stem the flow of Chinese made cars.
I think it is (politically) too hard for the EU and UK to set punitive tariffs. And the Chinese EV surge will happen over several years, so it will be almost like 'boiling the frog'. Plus we will see increasing collaborative/JVs etc with Chinese companies which will blur the lines and create lobbying pressure in both directions.It's going to need to be in the 30-50% range IMO to really stem the flow of Chinese made cars.
raspy said:
Looking at typical professions for EV drivers, 10.2% of all car insurance enquiries are for retirees, indicating that most EVs are owned by those no longer working. This is almost twice as much as NHS workers (5.9%), who are the second most likely to own an EV.
I believe there are some very very generous deals in the NHS for EV's which probably explains why they're so high. Fastdruid said:
raspy said:
Looking at typical professions for EV drivers, 10.2% of all car insurance enquiries are for retirees, indicating that most EVs are owned by those no longer working. This is almost twice as much as NHS workers (5.9%), who are the second most likely to own an EV.
I believe there are some very very generous deals in the NHS for EV's which probably explains why they're so high. BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Which depending on the mileage being done in the EV, could easily be more cost effective than having 1 car of the equivalent value of the 2-car solution.
I could do the same. I have 4 cars. I could buy a Nissan Leaf for 2-3k. My commute is 6 miles and the wife 12 so absolutely tiny. That car would be perfect although soul destroying on the drive home. That costs us £1500 in fuel a year. I could charge at work so in 3-4 years I could break even when factoring extra insurance and servicing. Year 5 I would be saving about a grand a year but I am more than happy to spend £83 a month or £41 each to drive something that gives us enjoyment on our daily commute.
I guess it just depends on your priorities.
740EVTORQUES said:
Isn't it annoying to have just warmed your engine up and be ready for some full on commuting fun when you arrive at your destination? 6 miles is not long to get the oil up to temperature. At least with a performance EV you could enjoy it from the minute you turn it on as they don't need warming up?
Maybe if you want to run your ICE to 500k or you're running something particularly exotic for your commute. Personally I've never worried about babying them, just driving sensibly until out of the local 30mph section. Given that the last two cars I've treated like that I stuck 80k and 100k on respectively without issue I'm not exactly going to start worrying now. Same as I've not worried about the turbo. The last 30mph section is slow and sensible enough to let things cool down.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I think it is (politically) too hard for the EU and UK to set punitive tariffs. And the Chinese EV surge will happen over several years, so it will be almost like 'boiling the frog'. Plus we will see increasing collaborative/JVs etc with Chinese companies which will blur the lines and create lobbying pressure in both directions.
It is quite hilarious really. Laws passed to move everyone to EV's to stop the east growing due to oil dominance but pushed off as green then inadvertently hand over your entire dominance of the vehicle empire to the Chinese in the process which in turn is a communist country using capitalism to wipe out the west. 
BricktopST205 said:
It is quite hilarious really. Laws passed to move everyone to EV's to stop the east growing due to oil dominance but pushed off as green then inadvertently hand over your entire dominance of the vehicle empire to the Chinese in the process which in turn is a communist country using capitalism to wipe out the west.
Wait until you find out how dependent on China we will become for green hydrogen powered things, you're going to s
t your pants.At least with EVs, we can make it a short term thing, If we play our cards right with the control of in-circulation battery minerals.
braddo said:
Of course there are virtually no cheap 10 year old EVs for the average UK person to buy.
I disagree that "there are virtually no cheap 10 year old EVs for the average UK person to buy".
The issue is that so many white 10 to 12-year old Leafs for £3,500 are a lottery. They have a range of 40 miles, and will go pop soon, needing a £3K repair.
However, a 10-year old 2024 Kia/Peugeot/Vauxhall in 10 years' time will be different.
ChocolateFrog said:
It's funny that immediate throttle response is so lauded by enthusiasts but no ICE could ever compare favourably to an EV in that specific respect. At best they could get close.
The ICE manufacturers have been conditioning us for the last 10 years with ICE cars that have built-in throttle lag. The lease-car-VW I share is appalling in that respect. When I go back to a 15-year old Japanese slushmatic the throttle response it's a revelation. As good as an EV. Well, almost.The EV throttle response brigade are people who've never driven a proper car, always had computer-controlled-electric-throttled-throttle.
M4cruiser said:
This ^ is why the next 10 years will turn the market over a lot.
I disagree that "there are virtually no cheap 10 year old EVs for the average UK person to buy".
The issue is that so many white 10 to 12-year old Leafs for £3,500 are a lottery. They have a range of 40 miles, and will go pop soon, needing a £3K repair.
However, a 10-year old 2024 Kia/Peugeot/Vauxhall in 10 years' time will be different.
I wouldn’t be so sure. They will be cheap because somebody’s come along with a model with much better tech or the battery’s knackered. Either way, it’ll be like buying somebody else’s 5 year old iPhone. I disagree that "there are virtually no cheap 10 year old EVs for the average UK person to buy".
The issue is that so many white 10 to 12-year old Leafs for £3,500 are a lottery. They have a range of 40 miles, and will go pop soon, needing a £3K repair.
However, a 10-year old 2024 Kia/Peugeot/Vauxhall in 10 years' time will be different.
M4cruiser said:
ChocolateFrog said:
It's funny that immediate throttle response is so lauded by enthusiasts but no ICE could ever compare favourably to an EV in that specific respect. At best they could get close.
The ICE manufacturers have been conditioning us for the last 10 years with ICE cars that have built-in throttle lag. The lease-car-VW I share is appalling in that respect. When I go back to a 15-year old Japanese slushmatic the throttle response it's a revelation. As good as an EV. Well, almost.The EV throttle response brigade are people who've never driven a proper car, always had computer-controlled-electric-throttled-throttle.
M4cruiser said:
ChocolateFrog said:
It's funny that immediate throttle response is so lauded by enthusiasts but no ICE could ever compare favourably to an EV in that specific respect. At best they could get close.
The ICE manufacturers have been conditioning us for the last 10 years with ICE cars that have built-in throttle lag. The lease-car-VW I share is appalling in that respect. When I go back to a 15-year old Japanese slushmatic the throttle response it's a revelation. As good as an EV. Well, almost.The EV throttle response brigade are people who've never driven a proper car, always had computer-controlled-electric-throttled-throttle.
I've had auto boxes since 1992 (I can't drive a manual) and have had many ICE cars from all over the world with auto boxes.
The revelation when I first drove an EV was the instant throttle response, it was laugh-out-loud fun.
I've had torque converter boxes that would need to 'kick down' before doing anything, and my last DSG was jerky with terrible power curve from the 1.4 turbo.
My Ev (BMW i3s) is night and day different.
(But I suppose my actual experience means nothing, and now I'm a vegan sandal wearing Evangelist. Christ)
Edited by Big Nanas on Friday 10th May 19:58
riskyj said:
"Screen glitchy". That alone in a Tesla would put me off given how much they rely on them.
Yes, that's complete nonsense.
I've had NA manuals, DCT's, a sequential straight cut gearbox in a track car, and nothing can equal the instant torque of an EV, it's laugh out loud shocking.
It's also why the forthcoming EV sports/ supercars from Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus etc may well be game changing.
I've had NA manuals, DCT's, a sequential straight cut gearbox in a track car, and nothing can equal the instant torque of an EV, it's laugh out loud shocking.
It's also why the forthcoming EV sports/ supercars from Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus etc may well be game changing.
TheRainMaker said:
I'm not sure I would call the throttle response on an i3s "laugh-out-loud fun" 
I guess it depends on what you have been used to.
A 1.4 Turbo. Said the man who can't drive a manual.I guess it depends on what you have been used to.
I don't mind automatics, and I don't mind turbos, but a 1.4 turbo automatic sounds like it would make a Morris Minor fun to drive by comparison?
OutInTheShed said:
TheRainMaker said:
I'm not sure I would call the throttle response on an i3s "laugh-out-loud fun"
I guess it depends on what you have been used to.
A 1.4 Turbo. Said the man who can't drive a manual.I guess it depends on what you have been used to.
I don't mind automatics, and I don't mind turbos, but a 1.4 turbo automatic sounds like it would make a Morris Minor fun to drive by comparison?
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