EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
confused_buyer said:
In fairness to European manufacturers I am not aware of any of them calling for tariffs.
They know full well that retaliation from China would be a disaster for them. It seems to be politicians doing so.
Well at least when the can finally settles in the gutter it won't be the fault of the boomers for a change. They know full well that retaliation from China would be a disaster for them. It seems to be politicians doing so.
Unreal said:
I like the imagery but I see an uncouth mob not a bourgeoisie and Millwall v West Ham not Greeks battling Persians. And underpinning it all, we're broke, hopelessly indebted and governed by people not fit to run a burger van.
Someone will say of course, we're not, we're the sixth biggest economy in the world. Going down... But that will be typed from an office in Moorgate or a home garden office in Moreton-in-Marsh. The place increasingly feels like a dump unless my eyes deceive me on my travels and there are no potholes, shopping centres dominated by pound shops, charity outlets, William Hill and Greggs, cheap reliable transport exists for all and businesses are thriving. Meanwhile the public sector operates like a well oiled machine and the public have banished obesity and sloth to the extent a walk down the beach will be like strolling through a 1930s German propaganda film.
Yes I am a cynic but I can spot an Emperor's clothes when I see them. Cars are just part of the facade that everything is ok.
I'd agree. It's the result of decades of people and councils borrowing future income to buy now. The fact that poundshops are currently preferred tenants and John Lewis isn't booming on the back of higher interest rates that increase the income of those with assets does tell you we've been having quite the party. Someone will say of course, we're not, we're the sixth biggest economy in the world. Going down... But that will be typed from an office in Moorgate or a home garden office in Moreton-in-Marsh. The place increasingly feels like a dump unless my eyes deceive me on my travels and there are no potholes, shopping centres dominated by pound shops, charity outlets, William Hill and Greggs, cheap reliable transport exists for all and businesses are thriving. Meanwhile the public sector operates like a well oiled machine and the public have banished obesity and sloth to the extent a walk down the beach will be like strolling through a 1930s German propaganda film.
Yes I am a cynic but I can spot an Emperor's clothes when I see them. Cars are just part of the facade that everything is ok.
Edited by Unreal on Wednesday 15th May 08:28
But it is all relative. Look more closely at the US or China and stuff is seriously f
ked up with enormous swathes of middle to high income households, the stability backbone for a civilised society and economy being totally wealthless, if not in negative wealth. While towns and cities in serious decline. Look at France, Germany and Japan our true economic peers and they are fked. None are looking at any kind of viable path to energy self sufficiency and none have the banking strength to finance the impending and crippling net zero targets of legacy dirty industry and none have a means to support the mass unemployment. We did all that in the 80s and into the 90s and got lucky that it happened to be the period of great global growth of the developing nations if we had to do it today when those developing nations were competitors not in need of our skills then we would be finished. So yes, large chunks of the U.K. are f
ked. Large chunks always are. But it's not specifically important how fked we are but how more or less fked our competitors are and our nearest economic peers are looking in really bad shape despite their tarmac looking and feeling so lovely. 
EVs are a golden ticket for the U.K. economy. We are small enough and wealthy enough and with the right demographics to have a pretty simple 20-30 year path to majority EV. We don't build EVs but import them, all that risk is on other shoulders. For the U.K., the bulk of our journey to net zero isn't industry but cars and boilers, that's it. We can get to net zero earlier and for less spend than others which means we attract more investment that needs net zero help.
And it's all thanks to Maggie Thatcher.
Unreal said:
I like the imagery but I see an uncouth mob not a bourgeoisie and Millwall v West Ham not Greeks battling Persians. And underpinning it all, we're broke, hopelessly indebted and governed by people not fit to run a burger van.
Someone will say of course, we're not, we're the sixth biggest economy in the world. Going down... But that will be typed from an office in Moorgate or a home garden office in Moreton-in-Marsh. The place increasingly feels like a dump unless my eyes deceive me on my travels and there are no potholes, shopping centres dominated by pound shops, charity outlets, William Hill and Greggs, cheap reliable transport exists for all and businesses are thriving. Meanwhile the public sector operates like a well oiled machine and the public have banished obesity and sloth to the extent a walk down the beach will be like strolling through a 1930s German propaganda film.
Yes I am a cynic but I can spot an Emperor's clothes when I see them. Cars are just part of the facade that everything is ok.
Quite. It seems that the average UK citizen is happy to drive on pot-holed roads, down a half empty high street, past closed libraries and crumbling infrastructure, park and then walk past weeds growing in gutters, rubbish in doorways, and many homeless people as long as they're driving a leased Audi, wearing a Canada Goose coat, and holding an iPhone Pro.Someone will say of course, we're not, we're the sixth biggest economy in the world. Going down... But that will be typed from an office in Moorgate or a home garden office in Moreton-in-Marsh. The place increasingly feels like a dump unless my eyes deceive me on my travels and there are no potholes, shopping centres dominated by pound shops, charity outlets, William Hill and Greggs, cheap reliable transport exists for all and businesses are thriving. Meanwhile the public sector operates like a well oiled machine and the public have banished obesity and sloth to the extent a walk down the beach will be like strolling through a 1930s German propaganda film.
Yes I am a cynic but I can spot an Emperor's clothes when I see them. Cars are just part of the facade that everything is ok.
A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Edited by loudlashadjuster on Wednesday 15th May 09:13
tamore said:
would the UK dare slap a tariff like that on?
The UK have no need. Manufacturing is basically dead in this country. Honda left Swindon and I think Nissan only stayed put because of grants. JLR has always been hanging on by its fingertips.
This could benefit the UK as we do not rely on manufacturing for our GDP. For most of Europe however it would be a death knell as the floods of Chinese cars take over and the factories all over close down.
People buy BMW's for their straight sixes or Audi's for Quattro. This is all irrelevant with the age of EV's as a motor is essentially the same across the board and the Chinese can churn them out cheaper than anyone else. Plus China is an emerging market with plenty of cash going around. Europe is basically Bankrupt.
DonkeyApple: " The U.K. having killed off its own industry last century.... "
You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
Mikehig said:
DonkeyApple: " The U.K. having killed off its own industry last century.... "
You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
Absolutely. We ditched the labour intensive and low barrier to entry stuff years ago. We could argue that we did so due to be intellectual bohemoths or because we became rubbish at it and folded the moment competition appeared but whichever the more logical reason it has randomly dumped us half way up the net zero mountain with most nations still near the bottom. You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
We still manufacture. Many people have swapped hard hats for hair nets and we have a pretty good hi tech manufacturing side such as pharmaceutical where we are actually competing relatively well against the US.
China will continue to develop and be more competitive and probably more of a concern is India as they have a vastly superior youth demographic over China.
But the real U.K. advantage lies in soot production. Bar Port Talbot and the power stations we just don't produce anywhere near the amounts that our peer economic rivals do. We're obviously huge in terms of driving overseas soot production but we don't make much here. Switch away from combustion for cars and boilers and we can hit net zero while others are facing real and serious domestic issues to get anywhere close.
It's not that we don't face problems but that we have the advantage of actually having solutions within our grasp.
loudlashadjuster said:
Quite. It seems that the average UK citizen is happy to drive on pot-holed roads, down a half empty high street, past closed libraries and crumbling infrastructure, park and then walk past weeds growing in gutters, rubbish in doorways, and many homeless people as long as they're driving a leased Audi, wearing a Canada Goose coat, and holding an iPhone Pro.
A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Sums the situation up perfectly. A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Muzzer79 said:
Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
This is the only way they will be able to meet the required percentage of EVs sold to avoid penalties. If you cant sell more EVs then sell less ICE vehicles.This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
Wills2 said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Quite. It seems that the average UK citizen is happy to drive on pot-holed roads, down a half empty high street, past closed libraries and crumbling infrastructure, park and then walk past weeds growing in gutters, rubbish in doorways, and many homeless people as long as they're driving a leased Audi, wearing a Canada Goose coat, and holding an iPhone Pro.
A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Sums the situation up perfectly. A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
Some of it is because of cash. Unemployment is low. A lot is just community spirit. Active residents assocs. Casual self help like litter picked and keeping local paths clear. active clubs.
irc said:
It varies. I have an NHS dentist. I can get a same day GP appt if required. Many local roads have been resurfaced. Very little litter. Not much is dropped (schoolkids mainly) and what is dropped is picked up by other residents. Library open. There is two or three empty units in the high street but it is busy 7 days a week. Still has a local butcher and some clothes shops. The pubs and cafes are doing OK. Very little crime. A bit of shoplifting but there has been no cars, sheds, or houses, done in my street for 20 years or more. Good schools. Regularly gets in the top few areas to live in for Scotland.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
Some of it is because of cash. Unemployment is low. A lot is just community spirit. Active residents assocs. Casual self help like litter picked and keeping local paths clear. active clubs.
Good employment and a small enough population that the https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
Some of it is because of cash. Unemployment is low. A lot is just community spirit. Active residents assocs. Casual self help like litter picked and keeping local paths clear. active clubs.
s feel their being watched. I reside under the oppressive kosh of the evil Campden Council and Cotswold District Council yet s
t seems to work under both. Libraries at both, roads ok, litter ok but the common link is that employment is high, unemployment generally voluntary, wealth and spending are high and the worst punters are next door not inside. It is a bit like someone posting that all Range Rovers are driven by gangstas, chavs and travellers. It does depend where you live and where you have to drive around.
It was why that Audemars chap was so amusing. He used to bang on the whole time about how he was beset by chavs while trying to pretend it wasn't because he lived in the midst of them.
NortonES2 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
This is the only way they will be able to meet the required percentage of EVs sold to avoid penalties. If you cant sell more EVs then sell less ICE vehicles.This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
DonkeyApple said:
It was why that Audemars chap was so amusing. He used to bang on the whole time about how he was beset by chavs while trying to pretend it wasn't because he lived in the midst of them.
Yet he had a massive collection of Supercars and a huge property portfolio.Where has he gone these days? I miss his input.
loudlashadjuster said:
Quite. It seems that the average UK citizen is happy to drive on pot-holed roads, down a half empty high street, past closed libraries and crumbling infrastructure, park and then walk past weeds growing in gutters, rubbish in doorways, and many homeless people as long as they're driving a leased Audi, wearing a Canada Goose coat, and holding an iPhone Pro.
A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Great. The "it's all gone to the dogs, mate" whingers (with a side-order of looking down on people) have infested this thread too. Why are people so negative, particularly when objectively and by comparison the UK is still a very desirable place to live? A facade, as you say. The most odd kind of "I'm alright, Jack" delusion. Having 'things' seems to equate to quality of life for them, whereas I see this coming from a high quality built environment that people take pride in and properly functioning public services.
Edited by loudlashadjuster on Wednesday 15th May 09:13
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/united-...
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/30-best-countries-l...
irc said:
It varies. I have an NHS dentist. I can get a same day GP appt if required. Many local roads have been resurfaced. Very little litter. Not much is dropped (schoolkids mainly) and what is dropped is picked up by other residents. Library open. There is two or three empty units in the high street but it is busy 7 days a week. Still has a local butcher and some clothes shops. The pubs and cafes are doing OK. Very little crime. A bit of shoplifting but there has been no cars, sheds, or houses, done in my street for 20 years or more. Good schools. Regularly gets in the top few areas to live in for Scotland.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
Some of it is because of cash. Unemployment is low. A lot is just community spirit. Active residents assocs. Casual self help like litter picked and keeping local paths clear. active clubs.
Sounds like the perfect place for a nice new migrant centre. That'll sort you out and drag it down to the correct level. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-...
Some of it is because of cash. Unemployment is low. A lot is just community spirit. Active residents assocs. Casual self help like litter picked and keeping local paths clear. active clubs.
Forrester said the “logical response” from legacy manufacturers — echoing recent comments from Ford and Stellantis — was that if it looked like they were going to fall short of government quotas, they would hold back from selling petrol and diesel cars. He said: “That would lead to a reduced supply of cars, and consumers not getting the vehicles that they want, and petrol cars becoming more expensive if the supply comes down.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dealer-warns-of...
ICE rock solid residuals incoming, definitely don’t buy EVs as a private purchase…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dealer-warns-of...
ICE rock solid residuals incoming, definitely don’t buy EVs as a private purchase…
Muzzer79 said:
You think car manufacturers are just going to give up the billions they have invested and are investing in EV's?
Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
Focus and Fiesta were dropped principally due to declining sales, and they had been declining for a LONG time (well before EVs became more popular), as buyers went for crossover/SUV type things. Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
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