EVs... no one wants them!

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

Nothing as we haven't and aren't selling it.

I'm not selling my house but it has a net value. I know what it has gained or lost in my ownership.

[Muzzer79]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

Nothing as we haven't and aren't selling it.

I'm not selling my house but it has a net value. I know what it has gained or lost in my ownership.

How does your hat taste?

[KingGary]

GT9 said:

BricktopST205 said:

An EV will never weight the same as an ICE until the energy density of its batteries can match those of petrol when taking into account efficiency differences. It is very simple really.

Whilst conveniently ignoring coefficient of drag...
Weight is not the only measure of how good a car is, above 50 mph, slipperiness is more better.
It's very simple really.

Which explains why most EVs look like worn bars of soap, shod with bicycle wheels.

[Maracus]

MightyBadger said:

Maracus said:

Nothing as we haven't and aren't selling it.

How much has the value of the car depreciated?

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

[M4cruiser]

CheesecakeRunner said:

Outside PistonHeads nobody gives a st about what cars weigh. To 99.9% of the driving population it makes absolutely no difference.

This is sadly true, and lots more besides. I recently spoke to a distant relative who's about to take his driving test. He's had many hours of tuition, but isn't ready for his test yet .... and we talked about the "show-me-tell-me" questions on the test, so I thought I'd test him.
How do you check brake lights? Ask someone to press the brake pedal whilst I stand at the front of the car. !!!! (wrong)
So how many brake lights are there? Er, 2. (wrong).
How do you check the indicators / trafficators? Switch them on an walk around the car (correct).
How many are there? Four. (wrong).

FFs, this guy has been driving on our roads, he's seen other cars' brake lights and indicators, but doesn't know much about them. What chance of him being interested in how brakes work, how low is the CofG, how much does it weigh. Etc.

[BricktopST205]

KingGary said:

Which explains why most EVs look like worn bars of soap, shod with bicycle wheels.

It also still doesn't change the fact that the drivetrain is still heavier.

[PBCD]

Maracus said:

My Mrs bought one over 2 years ago.

So did I (BMW i3S)

Absolutely no idea how much it has depreciated since then and to be honest
I couldn't care less as it's a 'keeper'.

The only people who are going to be caught out by EV depreciation are the
'more money than sense' types who feel compelled to buy a brand new car
every three years...

[_Hoppers]

Maracus said:

MightyBadger said:

Maracus said:

Nothing as we haven't and aren't selling it.

How much has the value of the car depreciated?

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

How much has she saved in fuel/servicing?

[Maracus]

_Hoppers said:

Maracus said:

MightyBadger said:

Maracus said:

Nothing as we haven't and aren't selling it.

How much has the value of the car depreciated?

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

How much has she saved in fuel/servicing?

16000 miles @4 miles/kW = 4000kW x £0.075 = £300. Add in some charging losses, so say £330
16000 miles @ 35mpg = 457 x £6.75 per gallon (??) = £3084

Mini EV Service plan for £270 for 4 years/2 services

Mini Petrol Service plan was around £650 for 4 years/2 Services

VED is £0 for the EV
VED is £180 p.a. for the Cooper S

[braddo]

BricktopST205 said:

It also still doesn't change the fact that the drivetrain is still heavier.

It also still doesn't change the fact that the drivetrain weight is irrelevant.

(*Except for the tiny % of people who care about the impact of weight on cars' handling.)

Are you ignoring the points being made about weight on purpose (i.e. it is basically irrelevant for EVs and is temporary)?

[740EVTORQUES]

Maracus said:

BricktopST205 said:

I will eat my hat if someone has bought an EV brand new private and is man enough to admit it.

My Mrs bought one over 2 years ago.

I bought my EV6 GT brand new, list price (£59K), cash in Jan 2023. Best car purchase I ever made, no regrets.

Ketchup or brown sauce sir?


ETA in terms of net value, my car is paying me the equivalent of £4K to £5K per year in savings compared to my previous (not remotely as fast) petrol car (value around £25K)

So I have in effect invested an additional £35K and that is returning £5K net, which is around 14% net, or around 23% ROI for a higher rate tax payer.

I intended to keep it for at least 10 years (8 of which is under warranty) so it will have to depreciate a LOT to make it a worse deal than buying a fossil fuel car.

Show me a better way of investing £35K? (added to which it's a nicer drive 95% of the time)

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 17th May 15:21

[braddo]

Maracus said:

_Hoppers said:

How much has she saved in fuel/servicing?

16000 miles @4 miles/kW = 4000kW x £0.075 = £300. Add in some charging losses, so say £330
16000 miles @ 35mpg = 457 x £6.75 per gallon (??) = £3084

Mini EV Service plan for £270 for 4 years/2 services

Mini Petrol Service plan was around £650 for 4 years/2 Services

VED is £0 for the EV
VED is £180 p.a. for the Cooper S

So ballpark about £3500 saved versus the ICE equivalent? Why do people buy EVs when they're so much more expensive to own? Madness

[nickfrog]

braddo said:

So ballpark about £3500 saved versus the ICE equivalent? Why do people buy EVs when they're so much more expensive to own? Madness

Particularly when they are 1.5% heavier as per the Rubicon upthread!

No point crossing that particular Rubicon really.

[jhiker]

If this is true it might be a game changer. Surely an EV would be a much more practical proposition?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/17/ch...

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

That isn't entirely true is it. RRP for a Mini electric 2.5 years ago was 32 grand. 2.5 year old ones are around 13-14ish grand. That is more like a 18 grand loss in 2.5 years. A similar age Mini Cooper S is hovering around 15-16k so is worth about 2 grand more than the electric version. That is not to mention that in period the Petrol Cooper S was 26k RRP so a good bit cheaper than the Mini electric whilst also being worth more in todays market. It has lost circa 10 grand in 2.5 years.

not including fuel it has cost you 8 grand more to have an Electric mini over two and half years.

[Maracus]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

That isn't entirely true is it. RRP for a Mini electric 2.5 years ago was 32 grand. 2.5 year old ones are around 13-14ish grand. That is more like a 18 grand loss in 2.5 years. A similar age Mini Cooper S is hovering around 15-16k so is worth about 2 grand more than the electric version. That is not to mention that in period the Petrol Cooper S was 26k RRP so a good bit cheaper than the Mini electric whilst also been worth more in todays market. It has lost circa 10 grand in 2.5 years.

not including fuel it has cost you 8 grand more to have an Electric mini over two and half years.

It wasn't bought new. Paid nowhere near £32k

The Mini EV was slightly cheaper compared to the same age Petrol at the time.

You are also not comparing apples with apples. A £32k Mini EV would have been a high spec Level 3. A £26k MCS would have been a low spec, zero optioned Mini. Big difference. To buy the same cars from a MINI dealership now, the EV would be around £18.5k, the Petrol around £19.5k.

HTH.

EDIT - Just had a look and the equivalent petrol version is around £21k from a MINI Dealer.

So £2.5k to £3k difference.

Edited by Maracus on Friday 17th May 15:38

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

It wasn't bought new. Paid nowhere near £32k

The Mini EV was slightly cheaper compared to the same age Petrol at the time.

You are also not comparing apples with apples. A £32k Mini EV would have been a high spec Level 3. A £26k MCS would have been a low spec, zero optioned Mini. Big difference. To buy the same cars from a MINI dealership now, the EV would be around £18.5k, the Petrol around £19.5k.

HTH.

You replied to me saying you bought new and now you are saying you didn't so just proved my point. Also the 26K mini cooper S wasn't low spec. The entry level spec was 23k RRP in period.

Obviously to buy now the petrol is worth more than the electric that is because it has a better value because it has depreciated less. Not sure what you are trying to point out with that. Apart from you would have more capital now by just buying another ICE instead of the EV.

I am not saying used EV's are bad value however but someone has to take that hit buying new. Especially going forward now the finance companies are not going to have their pants caught down again.

[Maracus]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

It wasn't bought new. Paid nowhere near £32k

The Mini EV was slightly cheaper compared to the same age Petrol at the time.

You are also not comparing apples with apples. A £32k Mini EV would have been a high spec Level 3. A £26k MCS would have been a low spec, zero optioned Mini. Big difference. To buy the same cars from a MINI dealership now, the EV would be around £18.5k, the Petrol around £19.5k.

HTH.

You replied to me saying you bought new and now you are saying you didn't so just proved my point. Also the 26K mini cooper S wasn't low spec. The entry level spec was 23k RRP in period.

Obviously to buy now the petrol is worth more than the electric that is because it has a better value because it has depreciated less. Not sure what you are trying to point out with that. Apart from you would have more capital now by just buying another ICE instead of the EV.

I am not saying used EV's are bad value however but someone has to take that hit buying new. Especially going forward now the finance companies are not going to have their pants caught down again.

It wasn't new, if that was misleading. Someone else took the hit.

I'm not trying to point out anything. The Mini EV suits her more than a petrol MCS - Plug in at home, cheap to run, remote cooling, etc. and multiple short journeys of 7-8 miles. Even knowing it's lost a bit more in value, she would still have picked the EV. It's a keeper for another 5-6 years, in which time it will have probably saved around £10k in running costs, who knows.

[Dave200]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

It wasn't bought new. Paid nowhere near £32k

The Mini EV was slightly cheaper compared to the same age Petrol at the time.

You are also not comparing apples with apples. A £32k Mini EV would have been a high spec Level 3. A £26k MCS would have been a low spec, zero optioned Mini. Big difference. To buy the same cars from a MINI dealership now, the EV would be around £18.5k, the Petrol around £19.5k.

HTH.

You replied to me saying you bought new and now you are saying you didn't so just proved my point. Also the 26K mini cooper S wasn't low spec. The entry level spec was 23k RRP in period.

Obviously to buy now the petrol is worth more than the electric that is because it has a better value because it has depreciated less. Not sure what you are trying to point out with that. Apart from you would have more capital now by just buying another ICE instead of the EV.

I am not saying used EV's are bad value however but someone has to take that hit buying new. Especially going forward now the finance companies are not going to have their pants caught down again.

I love how you've completely ignored the guy who pointed out that 90% of new cars are bought on finance irrespective of fuel type. This is high quality anti-EV stuff.

I could lease an M340i right now, from new, for £900-odd a month. Remember my comparison with the Tesla model 3 long range earlier? Yep, you've guessed it. It's about £900 a month to lease.

Edited by Dave200 on Friday 17th May 16:01

[Mikebentley]

Maracus said:

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

About £6k in 2.5 years.

An equivalent petrol Cooper S would have lost £5k.

She'll probably keep it the same time as her old petrol Cooper S, which was over 8 years.

For her it's perfect. Charge from home, she never travels more than 40 miles a day and with the added benefit of preheating and cooling of the cabin.

That isn't entirely true is it. RRP for a Mini electric 2.5 years ago was 32 grand. 2.5 year old ones are around 13-14ish grand. That is more like a 18 grand loss in 2.5 years. A similar age Mini Cooper S is hovering around 15-16k so is worth about 2 grand more than the electric version. That is not to mention that in period the Petrol Cooper S was 26k RRP so a good bit cheaper than the Mini electric whilst also been worth more in todays market. It has lost circa 10 grand in 2.5 years.

not including fuel it has cost you 8 grand more to have an Electric mini over two and half years.

It wasn't bought new. Paid nowhere near £32k

The Mini EV was slightly cheaper compared to the same age Petrol at the time.

You are also not comparing apples with apples. A £32k Mini EV would have been a high spec Level 3. A £26k MCS would have been a low spec, zero optioned Mini. Big difference. To buy the same cars from a MINI dealership now, the EV would be around £18.5k, the Petrol around £19.5k.

HTH.

EDIT - Just had a look and the equivalent petrol version is around £21k from a MINI Dealer.

So £2.5k to £3k difference.

Edited by Maracus on Friday 17th May 15:38

Curious why the calculations should be “Not including fuel”? The fuel savings can be significant. I do 24k per year in my EV and it costs me about £16 per week in fuel. A petrol or diesel car would be about £100 per week. This is without considering what a great drive my EV is and never the need to visit filthy fuel stations. This is brought home to me once a month when the Defender needs its £120 drink.