EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
tamore said:
nothing new in that article. all boils down to legacy ICE car manufacturers fully loading their EVs and charging too much for them.
think the negative propaganda has made an impact too.
Sadly, the core problem and failing of consumer subsidies is that the concept is ultimately an illusion. Whenever you place a subsidy on a consumer product or activity the terminal cost is increased so that this subsidy is mainly collected by the vendor not the consumer. It results in higher sales activity as the consumer always thinks they're getting the subsidy and a discount but in reality it's always mostly going to the vendor. think the negative propaganda has made an impact too.
The cashback fiasco of earlier EV subsidies really was a disaster as it just pushed prices up by the amount on offer. Even BIK discounts aren't a brilliant solution but at least it's harder for the vendor to collect.
Personally, I'd just bin all subsidies and simply split the two markets using debt regulation. Place a regulatory cap on secured lending where the car is the asset at £25k for anything non EV. Job done. Next to no one has the means to obtain the use of a vehicle over that value without finance and so anyone wanting anything more extravagant than the most basic of petrol cars just has no choice but to use an EV and if they can't then it doesn't matter as they can either buy what they can afford or adapt their usage to fit which is very easily done by higher income earners but very difficult for lower income earners.
The main failing of EVs in the U.K. began under Labour and continued under the Conservatives in that they massively failed to make it clear that the switch was a thirty year program and that for at least the first ten to fifteen years it was just those with high incomes and driveways who were expected to switch. Their failure to communicate just opened the door for the loony Stout English Yeoman and 'An Englishman's Home is his Castle' manipulation of the potato people who aren't even being asked let alone told to have an EV.
ACCYSTAN said:
To be fair,
hydrogen and electric are 2 of the future solutions, neither electricity nor hydrogen will be the default answer for every situation.
There is even a role for ICE especially hybrid ICE in the medium term.
Given that this is a thread about private car ownership, hydrogen is a complete irrelevance. Toyota, the world's largest manufacturer, has admitted that their only hydrogen car has been a flop. Shell, the world's second largest non-state-owned oil and gas company, has quietly closed their hydrogen filling stations. Nevertheless, that won't stop angry and misinformed people from being manipulated.hydrogen and electric are 2 of the future solutions, neither electricity nor hydrogen will be the default answer for every situation.
There is even a role for ICE especially hybrid ICE in the medium term.
Maracus said:
Somebody wanted my 4+ year old Model 3 that was collected by the lease company on Wednesday.
It was up for sale on AT on Friday, and went on Sunday.
Could write a Craig David song about this....
Yeah 2019/2020 Model 3 LR seem to be selling well.It was up for sale on AT on Friday, and went on Sunday.
Could write a Craig David song about this....
I have a watch filter set on AT and there are always around 8-12 sub-£19k, sub-80k mile ones for sale. They take a week or two to sell and then a new batch comes up. The market appears to have decided that £18k-£19k is fair money for a 420bhp, 0-60 in 4 secs, practical 5 seat family car that costs 2p/mile to fuel (from home), with 3-4 yrs and 50k or so of drivetrain warranty remaining.
Edited by LowTread on Monday 20th May 09:00
I had to put new wiper blades on my Model 3 on saturday. Oriiginals finally given up after 70k miles and 4.5 yrs.
Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
LowTread said:
I had to put new wiper blades on my Model 3 on saturday. Oriiginals finally given up after 70k miles and 4.5 yrs.
Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
And they’ll be exactly the sort of person wondering g why they’re out of a job in a few years time. Adapt or die is a very apt business motto here. Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
LowTread said:
I had to put new wiper blades on my Model 3 on saturday. Oriiginals finally given up after 70k miles and 4.5 yrs.
Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
You should have asked them to go in the back and look for some engine oil for the car and then walked out leaving them to work the insult out. Went to my local independent motor store. Typical place where they do basic servicing and bodywork round the back. The guy behind the counter only had a couple of teeth. You know the kind of place...
Me: I'm after wiper blades
Guy: What car is it?
Me: Tesla
Guy: <sucks through his gums> Tesla????
Bloke from out the back comes in
Guy: He's got a Tesla!!
Bloke: What the f**k do you want one of them for??
Me: Have you driven one?
Bloke: No.
Me: Have you been in one?
Bloke: No, and i don't f**king want to, neither
Bloke and Guy then come out to walk round the car. Point at the badge and laugh.
Guy: You can't get the bits for these. You'll probably have to pay Tesla for wiper blades. We can't get bits for them.
They then discover that the wipers are universal fit.
Back inside Bloke goes back into the workshop and all i can hear is "There's a bloke out front with a Tesla"...."Tesla??"..."WTF??", etc, etc, like i've turned up in a space ship.
Guy finally gets out the parts catalogue and flicks through, only to find that they do have the right wipers and they're on the shelf.
I pay my £22 and walk out.
Kind of sums up this thread TBH
"U.K. power generation can genuinely displace fossil fuels as the backbone supply. "
We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
nickfrog said:
Just looked at AT and std range Model 3 with 30/40k miles are advertised at £18k.
What's the catch? Do you still get access to the Tesla charging network on older used cars at the same rates?
It was good value IMO. AT bot suggested £1800 under the norm.What's the catch? Do you still get access to the Tesla charging network on older used cars at the same rates?
Access to the SuC network is for all Teslas at the same rate, once the V5 approval is completed in the app.
nickfrog said:
Just looked at AT and std range Model 3 with 30/40k miles are advertised at £18k.
What's the catch? Do you still get access to the Tesla charging network on older used cars at the same rates?
Yes. What's the catch? Do you still get access to the Tesla charging network on older used cars at the same rates?
The owner transfers the car to you via the app, using whatever ID you've chosen (email address).
Once transferred you just add a payment method to it such as a credit or debit card.
That's it. You just plug in and the car handles it.
After unplugging it's quite nice to get a "you've paid £10.50" or whatever ping up from Barclays. It's seamless
What i like about it is the way it all integrates. My samsung smart watch works with phone notifications, so when the car pings me i can respond via the watch..
Example: i left it unlocked after unlocking it via the app to let my wife get something out of the boot. About 5 mins later my watch pings "your tesla has been left unlocked" with options for "Dismiss", "Lock", etc. So i just clicked "Lock" on my watch and that locks the car remotely.
Yesterday i was out at a national trust place with my youngest. We were hot, so i told the car to cool down (it was 43 deg inside the car). By the time we walked back to the car it was a nice 19 deg inside.
They're bloody brilliant things!
Edited by LowTread on Monday 20th May 09:42
Edited by LowTread on Monday 20th May 09:43
irc said:
"U.K. power generation can genuinely displace fossil fuels as the backbone supply. "
We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
Yup. Lots to do. The key is that due to the geography and geology of the U.K. we are one of the few developed nations that has a relatively clear path to achieving the replacement of fossil fuels as the core energy backbone. We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
And don't forget that the big yellow splodge in that particular chart is nearly all transport energy as the USD priced and controlled oil is refined into fuels. The demand for which is obviously going to decline steadily over the next 30 years as a byproduct of the slow switch to electric transport.
This leaves nat gas which is our main fossil fuel for direct energy. We currently have a system where a lot of this gas is burnt in small, inefficient and unscrubable engines inside homes but again, we know that over the next 30+ years these gas boilers are to be phased out and domestic heating will utilise centrally distributed electricity. The gas that is burned in power stations is one of the cleanest fossil fuels to be burning, which gives us a head start over nations still trapped in coal and it can be scrubbed with scrubbing technology slowly improving. If we can get to the point that we can scrub and sequester the carbon dioxide from gas burning then our gas power stations effectively become carbon neutral.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 20th May 09:52
Unreal said:
They may have torque and acceleration but otherworldly is fantasy. There are plenty of iCE cars that match EV performance. Try following my GR Yaris powering out of a damp corner. Your car couldn't live with it despite having double the power.
The GR Yaris if a damn good car, and I've love to have one, but surely something like a Model 3 Performance would be able to live with it?LowTread said:
The owner transfers the car to you via the app, using whatever ID you've chosen (email address).
Once transferred you just add a payment method to it such as a credit or debit card.
That's it. You just plug in and the car handles it.
After unplugging it's quite nice to get a "you've paid £10.50" or whatever ping up from Barclays. It's seamless
^ sounds good, cheers. I suspect the transfer might not to be so smooth if buying from the trade though if the previous owner needs to do it?Once transferred you just add a payment method to it such as a credit or debit card.
That's it. You just plug in and the car handles it.
After unplugging it's quite nice to get a "you've paid £10.50" or whatever ping up from Barclays. It's seamless
Might make sense for me to get one and sell the Mini to Louis as his 200 is starting to show its age...Hope you're keeping well anyway.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 20th May 09:50
DonkeyApple said:
irc said:
"U.K. power generation can genuinely displace fossil fuels as the backbone supply. "
We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
Yup. Lots to do. The key is that due to the geography and geology of the U.K. we are one of the few developed nations that has a relatively clear path to achieving the replacement of fossil fuels as the core energy backbone. We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
Or better still, 2 way chargers so we can all choose to allocate 10-20% of our EVs for home energy storage (average house uses 10kwh/day, which is about 16% of an EVs capacity), so we have our own grid smoothing device parked on our drive.
nickfrog said:
^ sounds good, cheers mate. I suspect the transfer might not to be so smooth if buying from the trade though if the previous owner needs to do it?
No idea. But i think there's another process that you can follow involving the V5 to get it registered to you.I don't think that's a barrier to buying used.
Once registered to your account it's identical to a new one.
irc said:
"U.K. power generation can genuinely displace fossil fuels as the backbone supply. "
We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
Just for clarity, that graph is all energy, not electricity generation. i.e. it includes domestic gas, road fuel, industrial use, etc. We have a bit to go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805
Fossil fuels will be needed as long as we use wind to generate electricity because unreliable wind needs reliable gas backup.
https://news.sky.com/story/future-of-renewable-ene...
Current status shows that we're currently only consuming 30% of fossil fuels for electricity generation.
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
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