Why the PH hatred for PCP?

[Welshbeef]

Gordon_Roslin said:

Why does it have to be a new car? The classic logical fallacy of excluding used cars in order to make PCP seem reasonable.
Buy at 2 or 3 years old, invest and when you're 50 or 60 you'll have a pot that'll self-generate money for all the shiny new metal for the rest of your life without touching the principal. They should teach this in schools instead of getting everyone addicted to PCPs, iphone wonga contracts etc. to make people permanent wage slaves forever.

You do realise that only 65% of people live to 70 years old and it drops quickly from there I cannot recall the 65 %.

So all that saving up for the future is no good when your told you’ve terminal prostate cancer or any other life

Also IF there is a massive financial crash having all that pot of money in savings or equity will be either lost of bank goes Poo (only the £75k guaranteed value) or equity drops like a stone and never recovers on your stocks in your lifetime so that pot of gold is gone for good

[jimPH]

roadsmash said:

Lol. Bet that you don’t have two pennies to scratch together.

Also bet that you deny this and instead reply back to me claiming you are in fact stinking rich.

I have bought cars with cash in the past and don’t totally write off doing it again in the future. Although I’m leasing at the moment and enjoy funding a nice car with a small monthly payment, while my cash stays in equities, earning me more!?

I just wish people will understand the pros and cons, instead of labelling those who do lease cheap/poor/tight/stupid/flash/irresponsible etc.

The truth is, a lot of people who slag off those who lease etc. usually don’t (despite what they claim) have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it from. Cars are not an investment so those who do their research, and find the right deal, will use leasing to work for them. Excluding dealers and classic car collectors of course.

Footballers on £200k a week lease exotic cars, why? Because they don’t want to tie up their cash into a depreciating lump of metal.

It’s even the same in business now. More and more corporate businesses are leasing IT equipment because it’s value sinks like a stone.

Open your eyes a little and stop being so bitter.

Some corkers trotted out there, all in one post too. Not only is this guy financially savvy by using PCP, he's also using the same wealth management strategy as a footballer.

[roadsmash]

Gordon_Roslin said:

roadsmash said:

Lol. Bet that you don’t have two pennies to scratch together.

Also bet that you deny this and instead reply back to me claiming you are in fact stinking rich.

I have bought cars with cash in the past and don’t totally write off doing it again in the future. Although I’m leasing at the moment and enjoy funding a nice car with a small monthly payment, while my cash stays in equities, earning me more!

I just wish people will understand the pros and cons, instead of labelling those who do lease cheap/poor/tight/stupid/flash/irresponsible etc.

The truth is, a lot of people who slag off those who lease etc. usually don’t (despite what they claim) have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it from. Cars are not an investment so those who do their research, and find the right deal, will use leasing to work for them. Excluding dealers and classic car collectors of course.

Footballers on £200k a week lease exotic cars, why? Because they don’t want to tie up their cash into a depreciating lump of metal.

It’s even the same in business now. More and more corporate businesses are leasing IT equipment because it’s value sinks like a stone.

Open your eyes a little and stop being so bitter.

Not bitter, just crestfallen at seeing the level of financial illiteracy on here. Then of course you have offered the always-bizarre 'if you talk financial sense then you must not have any money'. Do you go up to people who obviously know their stuff when it comes to Ju-Jitsu and tell them that therefore they must not know anything about it?

For what it's worth, since you ask, my equity investments have returned north of 10% over my lifetime, allowing me to now finance my car purchases from the annual income via interest without ever touching the principal. Maybe if a few more people took that approach to asset growth over time then they wouldn't be left without a pot to p*ss in due to all their PCPS over the course of a lifetime?

Not sure I did ask? Did I?

By the way 10% return is very average for someone who knows their stuff.

Why do you care so much about what other people do?

av185 said:

Yep equities always increase in value.

Especially at the moment.

Definitely didn’t say “always.” Merely pointing out that having your cash in certain equities is at least slightly more sensible than chucking £30k cash on a typical car.

But really, even having your cash in a poxy savings account is better than chucking it in on a car... I used equities as an example but of course I don’t have all my cash tied up in equities at the moment. However, I have recently bought more, and I suggest you all do the same. But that’s another thread.

jimPH said:

Some corkers trotted out there, all in one post too. Not only is this guy financially savvy by using PCP, he's also using the same wealth management strategy as a footballer.

You’re right, I am unfortunately not a footballer, albeit not through lack of trying, but here’s one for you, to demonstrate my point:

London based PL club
Every pro contract player is assigned an IFA
Half of their earnings goes straight into a pension straight away
The rest is divvied out on property and other investments, and of course luxuries and consumables too
Not cars though
Cars are financed either on PCP’s through specialist brokers or PCH, but usually PCP
Why? Because it’s a financially sensible way of purchasing a car, without tying up their cash

Wanna bet? Go run some HPI checks at your local PL club’s training ground.


Isn’t it sad that people signed up to a motoring forum would like to see the members driving around in Fiat Puntos because finance is cancer!

[Welshbeef]

[redacted]

[Deep Thought]

av185 said:

Yep equities always increase in value.

Especially at the moment.

Whereas of course buying a car with cash goes up in value?

[Deep Thought]

Gordon_Roslin said:

Why does it have to be a new car? The classic logical fallacy of excluding used cars in order to make PCP seem reasonable.
Buy at 2 or 3 years old, invest and when you're 50 or 60 you'll have a pot that'll self-generate money for all the shiny new metal for the rest of your life without touching the principal. They should teach this in schools instead of getting everyone addicted to PCPs, iphone wonga contracts etc. to make people permanent wage slaves forever.

You're making the fundamental mistake - again - that everyone who PCP's doesnt have any savings / pension plans.

Its that 2+2=5 thing again isnt it? - a lot of people PCP, a lot of people dont have savings therefore everyone who PCP's doesnt have savings.

[Deep Thought]

Welshbeef said:

Gordon_Roslin said:

But the average PCP costs £400 per month, whilst the average take home pay is about £1,700. So the same millenials making violin-soaked paeans to their tragic situation on youtube about not being able to afford a mortgage are forking out nearly a mortgage payment a month on being able to claim how successful they are, when actually anyone with any financial literacy is directing gale force laughter in their direction as they go by in their debt-prisons with wheels on. Notice how nobody ever provides any evidence in favour of PCPs, it always comes down to 'one life, live it' 'you only live once' 'i don't want another person's posterior in the seat'.

I don’t get th only live once attitude point you make.

People buy PCP because
1. opt out of company car and need it within age limits & don’t have a lump sum to buy a car outright.
2. There is a massive offer on PCH/PCP whereby the discount on that purchase method is far cheaper all in than buying outright or via bank loan.
3. Some people cannot correctly judge depreciation and always get spanked in part x so PCH / GFV PCP takes that risk away it’s a known entity.
4. You have a sole trader/ltd company setup and want to run the vehicle in the business.
5. Because you can.

And just because they've done so this time doesnt mean they have to / will next time.

[Deep Thought]

roadsmash said:

Isn’t it sad that people signed up to a motoring forum would like to see the members driving around in Fiat Puntos because finance is cancer!

I've said that for years on here. Its a motoring enthusiasts forum FFS. If someone wants to PCP or lease something nice for a couple of years then i genuinely hope they have a world of fun with it. Yet some will obsess on "oh oh you cant really afford it - you should have put that £X a month in to your pension. You'll die destitute you know".

Yes, there are dolts out there living beyond their means but even without PCP finance they'd find other ways to live beyond their means. That doesnt make finance bad for everyone.

[Deep Thought]

[redacted]

[jimPH]

roadsmash said:

You’re right, I am unfortunately not a footballer, albeit not through lack of trying, but here’s one for you, to demonstrate my point:

London based PL club
Every pro contract player is assigned an IFA
Half of their earnings goes straight into a pension straight away
The rest is divvied out on property and other investments, and of course luxuries and consumables too
Not cars though
Cars are financed either on PCP’s through specialist brokers or PCH, but usually PCP
Why? Because it’s a financially sensible way of purchasing a car, without tying up their cash

Wanna bet? Go run some HPI checks at your local PL club’s training ground.


Isn’t it sad that people signed up to a motoring forum would like to see the members driving around in Fiat Puntos because finance is cancer!

Totally missed the point as usual. PCP seems to turn people into financial wizards overnight, purely by using the same product as someone wealthy. The only difference is, one uses it for convenience, the other uses it because he hasn't got any money (But convinces everyone their reasons are the same, hence the usual meaningless comparisons).

[Deep Thought]

jimPH said:

Totally missed the point as usual. PCP seems to turn people into financial wizards overnight, purely by using the same product as someone wealthy. The only difference is, one uses it for convenience, the other uses it because he hasn't got any money (But convinces everyone their reasons are the same, hence the usual meaningless comparisons).

And you're assuming - as is usual- that everyone who uses a PCP deal is doing so because they havent got any money?

Buying a car with cash makes people a financial wizard then does it? Its always better to buy any car for cash than to take a PCP deal?

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Deep Thought said:

jimPH said:

Totally missed the point as usual. PCP seems to turn people into financial wizards overnight, purely by using the same product as someone wealthy. The only difference is, one uses it for convenience, the other uses it because he hasn't got any money (But convinces everyone their reasons are the same, hence the usual meaningless comparisons).

And you're assuming - as is usual- that everyone who uses a PCP deal is doing so because they havent got any money?

Buying a car with cash makes people a financial wizard then does it? Its always better to buy any car for cash than to take a PCP deal?

Do you think the rapid rise in the use of PCP is because people have more or less savings?

[Welshbeef]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Do you think the rapid rise in the use of PCP is because people have more or less savings?

Have you done any analysis to seee how much HP loans have fallen (or not)


A girl at work has a Citroen C1 zero deposit and it costs her £69pcm for a few years. It’s cheaper than her mobile phone

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Welshbeef said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Do you think the rapid rise in the use of PCP is because people have more or less savings?

Have you done any analysis to seee how much HP loans have fallen (or not)


A girl at work has a Citroen C1 zero deposit and it costs her £69pcm for a few years. It’s cheaper than her mobile phone

Is that an answer or a question?

[Gordon_Roslin]

Deep Thought said:

And you're assuming - as is usual- that everyone who uses a PCP deal is doing so because they havent got any money?

Buying a car with cash makes people a financial wizard then does it? Its always better to buy any car for cash than to take a PCP deal?

Not in all cases but in most cases yes. Only in the bizarre world of pistonheads is PCP held up as an ingenious way of beating the system, rather than getting conned by it. People paying the finance broker's mortgage in order to drive metal around they can't afford whilst also convincing themselves that it's the best deal - beggars belief to be honest. People need to be honest about themselves and add up the total cost over the PCP period rather than gleefully pointing to the reduction they get on paying with cash as if that justifies it, ignoring the total overall cost of the package (which is obviously higher once payments and interest are factored in).

People genuinely seem to think car manufacturers are out to do them a favour, or that taking out a PCP means they are smarter than the finance departments of the multi-billion dollar corporations with whom they are tangling.

[tickedon]

If someone has saved £30k and, after living costs and normal expenses, has a surplus of about £500 each month that they put away, do they:

A) Buy a £25k car using their savings. This leaves them only £5k if a big bill appeals (new boiler?) or they lose their job etc. Not very sensible.

B) Buy a new car on PCP. It might cost them £300pm, but they still have a spare £200pm being added to their savings. And if anything goes wrong, they still have a very large cushion of cash to fall back on and tide them over.

There are certainly people who buy on PCP that can’t afford it. For others, it’s a perfectly acceptable and sensible way to buy a car.

[Dr Jekyll]

tickedon said:

If someone has saved £30k and, after living costs and normal expenses, has a surplus of about £500 each month that they put away, do they:

A) Buy a £25k car using their savings. This leaves them only £5k if a big bill appeals (new boiler?) or they lose their job etc. Not very sensible.

B) Buy a new car on PCP. It might cost them £300pm, but they still have a spare £200pm being added to their savings. And if anything goes wrong, they still have a very large cushion of cash to fall back on and tide them over.

There are certainly people who buy on PCP that can’t afford it. For others, it’s a perfectly acceptable and sensible way to buy a car.

C) Spend £25k using savings, then take out a huge loan with £300pm repayments and leave the money in the bank in case of a big bill or unemployment.

[anonymous-user]

Welshbeef said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Do you think the rapid rise in the use of PCP is because people have more or less savings?

Have you done any analysis to seee how much HP loans have fallen (or not)


A girl at work has a Citroen C1 zero deposit and it costs her £69pcm for a few years. It’s cheaper than her mobile phone

No she doesn't. All of these "it's only £99 a month, cheaper than owning a shed" neglect to mention the £2k deposit, £300 document fee and 5k annual mileage limits.

If anyone can actually show me a deal that is £69 a month (or £99 for that matter) with no deposit I will order one today.

[Gordon_Roslin]

Joey Deacon said:

No she doesn't. All of these "it's only £99 a month, cheaper than owning a shed" neglect to mention the £2k deposit, £300 document fee and 5k annual mileage limits.

If anyone can actually show me a deal that is £69 a month (or £99 for that matter) with no deposit I will order one today.

Well said Deacon. It speaks volumes that PCP disciples have to fabricate obviously false numbers to prop up the preposterousness of the notion that PCP tends to work out better. £69 a month for a car? Bahahahaha.

[jimPH]

tickedon said:

If someone has saved £30k and, after living costs and normal expenses, has a surplus of about £500 each month that they put away, do they:

A) Buy a £25k car using their savings. This leaves them only £5k if a big bill appeals (new boiler?) or they lose their job etc. Not very sensible.

B) Buy a new car on PCP. It might cost them £300pm, but they still have a spare £200pm being added to their savings. And if anything goes wrong, they still have a very large cushion of cash to fall back on and tide them over.

There are certainly people who buy on PCP that can’t afford it. For others, it’s a perfectly acceptable and sensible way to buy a car.

Why would they need to spend the whole lot on a car? That's the problem. They'd normally go out and spend it on something affordable, say £10k on a car and save the rest, including the monthly from that point, straight into their savings circa £500 a month.