How the hell do people afford cars these days?

[Deep Thought]

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

Interesting. So you were earning £15-30 an hour doing paper rounds?

I was paid cash per round. Pretty sure nobody gave a flying fig how long it took me as long as I had them all done by 7.45.

I managed to buy an Escort Cosworth at 19 so it worked out ok...

It was more a question of how long each round was taking you. In my experience each round was about 45 minutes but perhaps different in more densely populated areas.

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

But did your dad give you a lift to the shop?

[What The Deuces]

Deep Thought said:

But did your dad give you a lift to the shop?

Haha not a chance.

[Deep Thought]

What The Deuces said:

Deep Thought said:

But did your dad give you a lift to the shop?

Haha not a chance.

Yeah was just checking in case thats how you got your leg up in life. Apparently its a big differentiator.

[Evanivitch]

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

Interesting. So you were earning £15-30 an hour doing paper rounds?

I was paid cash per round. Pretty sure nobody gave a flying fig how long it took me as long as I had them all done by 7.45.

I managed to buy an Escort Cosworth at 19 so it worked out ok...

It was more a question of how long each round was taking you. In my experience each round was about 45 minutes but perhaps different in more densely populated areas.

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

So £30 an hour, £60 a day, £300 a week, £1200 a month, nearly £15,000 a year tax free some 15-30 years ago?

Have I misunderstood anything?

[Deep Thought]

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

Interesting. So you were earning £15-30 an hour doing paper rounds?

I was paid cash per round. Pretty sure nobody gave a flying fig how long it took me as long as I had them all done by 7.45.

I managed to buy an Escort Cosworth at 19 so it worked out ok...

It was more a question of how long each round was taking you. In my experience each round was about 45 minutes but perhaps different in more densely populated areas.

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

So £30 an hour, £60 a day, £300 a week, £1200 a month, nearly £15,000 a year tax free some 15-30 years ago?

Have I misunderstood anything?

That anyone other than you cares?

[Franco5]

Zeugirdor said:

I don't fully agree with your opinion because it is not as bad to jump on a property ladder as you describe it. Everyone I personally know who are/were on below national average, have a mortgage, e.g. those examples I left about customer services employees with new cars.

What you don't realise is that when you take out a mortgage, your car finance will reflect what you may borrow and who wants to lend you the monies. Someone on £25k who bought a flashy car on PCP will struggle to get on the property ladder and I feel you don't see the actual picture. Banks don't care if it's 'only' £250 a month. They see the total cost and certainly car finance on your record has always been quite a hit unless you earn so much that it doesn't matter.

People who live in London have a choice to move up north where lifestyle is cheaper. If you're not on £80k in London then I'm sorry, the city is not for you - simple as that. Moreover, there are plenty of schemes around to help first time buyers with huge contributions and something like 5% deposit which is totally achievable if you save money for 5 years. I'm unsure who these majority of people you're talking about, but clearly we are not on the same page and you may be watching too much media steering BS down your throat. It's all about your goals and what midset you have. Dit is pointless to compare what someone could afford 20 years ago to now, concentrate on what you can do now to move forwards.

Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.

I did a similar thing to him but stopped when I bought my second home as career was taking over all aspects of my life and I didn't have any time to manage other properties being let.

So not, it isn't really hard to jump on a property ladder. There are houses that cost £40k but needs £40k of renovation for it to be marketed at £180k.

Too bad this 'MAJORITY' of people do not think like we do, the foreigners who know value of money and think about our future/families.

Anyways. This is indeed a steer from the main topic.

Someone’s been watching too much HUTH.

Is your mate sweating his highly geared plums with his BTL properties on high LTV IO with mortgage rates heading to at least 5-6% in the next 12 months because I’d imagine there are plenty out there that are. If they stay at or above that level the next 10 years will be hilarious.

[Franco5]

What The Deuces said:

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

I’ve got to call BS on this. Admittedly it was a long time ago that I had a round but £398 tips from one round would have meant £10 from every house who had a paper on my round. We all used to compare tips in the shop and all the paperboys I worked with were lucky if 10% of their customers tipped.

[Superflow]

Franco5 said:

Zeugirdor said:

I don't fully agree with your opinion because it is not as bad to jump on a property ladder as you describe it. Everyone I personally know who are/were on below national average, have a mortgage, e.g. those examples I left about customer services employees with new cars.

What you don't realise is that when you take out a mortgage, your car finance will reflect what you may borrow and who wants to lend you the monies. Someone on £25k who bought a flashy car on PCP will struggle to get on the property ladder and I feel you don't see the actual picture. Banks don't care if it's 'only' £250 a month. They see the total cost and certainly car finance on your record has always been quite a hit unless you earn so much that it doesn't matter.

People who live in London have a choice to move up north where lifestyle is cheaper. If you're not on £80k in London then I'm sorry, the city is not for you - simple as that. Moreover, there are plenty of schemes around to help first time buyers with huge contributions and something like 5% deposit which is totally achievable if you save money for 5 years. I'm unsure who these majority of people you're talking about, but clearly we are not on the same page and you may be watching too much media steering BS down your throat. It's all about your goals and what midset you have. Dit is pointless to compare what someone could afford 20 years ago to now, concentrate on what you can do now to move forwards.

Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.

I did a similar thing to him but stopped when I bought my second home as career was taking over all aspects of my life and I didn't have any time to manage other properties being let.

So not, it isn't really hard to jump on a property ladder. There are houses that cost £40k but needs £40k of renovation for it to be marketed at £180k.

Too bad this 'MAJORITY' of people do not think like we do, the foreigners who know value of money and think about our future/families.

Anyways. This is indeed a steer from the main topic.

Someone’s been watching too much HUTH.

Is your mate sweating his highly geared plums with his BTL properties on high LTV IO with mortgage rates heading to at least 5-6% in the next 12 months because I’d imagine there are plenty out there that are. If they stay at or above that level the next 10 years will be hilarious.

Doesn’t matter the friend will just do a few more paper rounds and pay the mortgage off and maybe call in for a Lambo on the home

[TREMAiNE]

Zeugirdor said:

If you're not on £80k in London then I'm sorry, the city is not for you - simple as that.

Absolutely ridiculous statement to make.
The average salary in London is £60k, up from £54k last year.
There are around 5.8 million workers in London, if anyone on less than £80k moved away because the city "is not for them", the majority of the London workforce would be gone entirely.

You have no idea what you're talking about and have no concept of reality and the fact that the solution for people to get onto the property ladder is just to move away shows how ignorant you are about how dire the situation is. You're not talking about a few thousand people - it's millions of people. The government cited that young people are half as likely to get on the property ladder and have openly said that the housing system in the UK is broken.

Zeugirdor said:

Let me tell you what my friend did who started like me, from the bottom. Work hard. Don't spend monies on silly things. After 5 years of working hard he was able to buy a house for £80k with a BTL mortgage in an ok area. 5 years later he turned 25 and was able to sell his house and buy something better, do it up and sell it. He then managed to buy two houses, do them up, sell it. He is now 33 and owns 6 properties that he lets in the Midlands. He bought his used C63s with cash.

So if he is 33 now and bought his £80k house in 2010 at 20 years old.
Granted you cannot directly compare due to location etc but the house that I have now sold in 2012 for £250,000. It's now worth double that.

Zeugirdor said:

Banks don't care if it's 'only' £250 a month. They see the total cost and certainly car finance on your record has always been quite a hit unless you earn so much that it doesn't matter.

You're missing the point.
Based on averages as a whole, for a massive portion of the UK who currently rent, 40-60% of their salary goes on JUST rent. Rent does not contribute to the affordability of a mortgage. The rest of their money is taken up by bills. Is it smart to spend £250 a month on PCPing a car if you're in that position? No, of course not. But if £250 is all their disposable income after all their bills each month (and a lot of people in the UK can't even save that), that's 5 years going paycheck to paycheck to be in a position to put down 5% on a house (based on national average price) and still almost certainly being declined a mortgage because they won't tick the affordability boxes. And that's without taking into account sudden bills that might happen, servicing a car, new tyres for a car, if their old shed blows up beyond repair, it's spending another 4 months saving on another shed etc.

Zeugirdor said:

It is pointless to compare what someone could afford 20 years ago to now, concentrate on what you can do now to move forwards.

When people have no idea on what it's like to be in this scenario TODAY, it's not pointless at all - and you don't even have to look to 20 years ago.
10 years ago, my house sold for half of what it's worth now.

Combined with the cost of living increases and severe rate of inflation it's not as simple as you seem to make out.
Unless you're living with parents for free or low rent, saving for a deposit is nearly impossible in 2022. The thing is, no matter what I or anyone else might say, you won't change your views and I am sure that you believe that if you was 18 years old in 2022 whos parents had just kicked them out, you'd still work hard, hunker down and be on the property ladder within 5-10 years but the reality is you wouldn't unless you were one of the few people who are very skilled and on an exceptionally good wage, which most people are not (and it would be impossible for them to be).

Edited by TREMAiNE on Wednesday 31st August 19:23

[What The Deuces]

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

Interesting. So you were earning £15-30 an hour doing paper rounds?

I was paid cash per round. Pretty sure nobody gave a flying fig how long it took me as long as I had them all done by 7.45.

I managed to buy an Escort Cosworth at 19 so it worked out ok...

It was more a question of how long each round was taking you. In my experience each round was about 45 minutes but perhaps different in more densely populated areas.

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

So £30 an hour, £60 a day, £300 a week, £1200 a month, nearly £15,000 a year tax free some 15-30 years ago?

Have I misunderstood anything?

Everything lol

Unless you think that a 13 yo paperboy could make £15k a year. This was in the midlands not Dubai


Each round was £10 per week and a Sunday round was £10 for the day

[anonymous-user]

TREMAiNE said:

I recently chatted with my dad about it, who is of the above delusional view...

In 1995, he bought the house I grew up in for £45,000. Adjusted for inflation, that is around £70,000. This was for a 3-bed semi-detached house in a pretty expensive town and at this time, the median salary in that area was £19,000 or around £31,5000 adjusted for inflation.

Looking online, that same house is worth between £470,000 to £519,000 today, with the average salary in the area being £36,000.

Average house price in England is £275,000 & a lot less in Wales, Scotland & NI. That's AVERAGE. Many will be a lot less. Also, you need to be quoting the median salary for FT workers, not simply the median salary. Part-time working & house purchasing don't go together.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpricein...

That desirable town your dad bought in has, over the years, likely become super-desirable, especially if it's within easy reach of London.

London & the Home Counties are outliers & are completely unrepresentative of the UK as a whole. Blame government policy favouring the city & immigration which is very London/SE centric. Regardless, the SE can't be used as a representative argument for unaffordability in any realistic way.

I'll bet your consumption is WAY above your father's when he was younger & looking to buy a house. Getting rid of a car is the obvious area to reduce expenditure. Then cut back in all other areas. What about getting a second job? I had 3 when I bought my first house in 2006 (at x7 my main job's annual salary & interest rates were much higher than now).

How come so many Eastern Europeans came to the UK & flourished, with many now owning houses here? It's not a secret - hard graft, no expectations of someone giving them a leg-up, & no victim mentality.

[Evanivitch]

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

What The Deuces said:

Evanivitch said:

Interesting. So you were earning £15-30 an hour doing paper rounds?

I was paid cash per round. Pretty sure nobody gave a flying fig how long it took me as long as I had them all done by 7.45.

I managed to buy an Escort Cosworth at 19 so it worked out ok...

It was more a question of how long each round was taking you. In my experience each round was about 45 minutes but perhaps different in more densely populated areas.

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

So £30 an hour, £60 a day, £300 a week, £1200 a month, nearly £15,000 a year tax free some 15-30 years ago?

Have I misunderstood anything?

Everything lol

Unless you think that a 13 yo paperboy could make £15k a year. This was in the midlands not Dubai


Each round was £10 per week and a Sunday round was £10 for the day

I was only doing the maths based on your own tags to riches commentary.

What The Deuces said:

I earned more than that doing paper rounds at 13. I did 3 morning, 3 evening, 4 sunday rounds and had £10 for each plus any tips

;-)

[anonymous-user]

And some of the replies in the last 2-3 pages indicate why Sunak will not be the next PM in 5 days time - A lot of jealousy & bitterness exists in the UK for those who have wealth & success, usually from those lacking in nous & unable to make sacrifices to get on. We'll therefore get Truss who's desperate for her 5 mins of fame & her populist flip-flop economic policies.

[alock]

What The Deuces said:

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

I thought it is illegal for under 16s to start work before 7am? The shop I did a paper round from wouldn't let us leave the shop until exactly 7.

You therefore worked for an employer who broke the law. That's not good advice for anyone.

[Zippee]

piddy44 said:

And some of the replies in the last 2-3 pages indicate why Sunak will not be the next PM in 5 days time - A lot of jealousy & bitterness exists in the UK for those who have wealth & success, usually from those lacking in nous & unable to make sacrifices to get on. We'll therefore get Truss who's desperate for her 5 mins of fame & her populist flip-flop economic policies.

Indeed - sad isn't it.

[Tomanybikes]

alock said:

What The Deuces said:

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

I thought it is illegal for under 16s to start work before 7am? The shop I did a paper round from wouldn't let us leave the shop until exactly 7.

You therefore worked for an employer who broke the law. That's not good advice for anyone.

Sometimes you just have to laugh and realise why there is a employment crisis at the moment now that people have gone back to Europe and we’re left with this type of thinking.

[Evanivitch]

Tomanybikes said:

Sometimes you just have to laugh and realise why there is a employment crisis at the moment now that people have gone back to Europe and we’re left with this type of thinking.

You think abusing child labour laws is okay?

[Tomanybikes]

Evanivitch said:

Tomanybikes said:

Sometimes you just have to laugh and realise why there is a employment crisis at the moment now that people have gone back to Europe and we’re left with this type of thinking.

You think abusing child labour laws is okay?

Get them back up the chimney.

[silent ninja]

J4CKO said:

It does make me wonder sometimes as we have no mortgage and a decent enough income but would be very wary of spurging 400 quid plus a month for a car to do a couple of hundred miles a month in.

My thinking is, you have people on much higher incomes, maybe with lower outgoings.

Inheritances, someone I know lost both parents in just over a year and shared well over a million quid with her brother, another person I know lost her mother and got half of her estate and then her partner and got his, probably 750 grand or more.

Lottery wins, family down our road bought their house apparently with a lottery win.

Cash economy, local takeaway has a permanently broken card machine, been seen burning receipts on numerous occasions, always says "Cash is king" and drives a brand new X5. Will be partly because he runs a successful food business, but also due to tax evasion. See also car washes, counterfeit goods, drugs, supercar hire, car sales, chops shops, crash for cash.

Wealthy foreign visitors like the guys in the supercars in London charging about.

Lot of new cars are Motability funded.

Insurance/legal payout, you see folk get unfair dismissal or discrimination awards in the hundreds of thousands.

Equity release/downsizing, frees up capital, same with pension lump sums.

Bonusses/Big commission payments, some jobs pay huge bonusses.

Plus, the one that everyone goes on about, finance, PCP and all that.


Oh, and OnlyFans and that kind of thing, show genitals, receive cash, buy shiny things.

Great post

You see the tip of the iceberg, the shiny lights and mercedes emblem. But the reality of the goings on, how people attained or maintain their income is something else.

Simplicity is king. But if you want to be famous and impress others, you'll manufacturer many reasons as to why you must pay such large sums for your lifestyle.


I'm on a six figure salary in Consulting. Have a wife and 3 kids. I drive a SEAT Ateca 2019 plate - a modest car. I can't afford anything more. Given I live in the Midlands where cost of living is lower than the south, I'm well off enough but others on half my salary have fancy BMW 5 series fresh from showroom and whatever else. The numbers eventually catch up: just like you can't outrun a bad diet, you can't outrun reckless short term focused spending/debt.

Edited by silent ninja on Thursday 1st September 08:40

[What The Deuces]

alock said:

What The Deuces said:

If you must know, my alarm clock was always 6.05, it allowed me to be in the shop for 6.20 when the rounds were put out and i was always at home having my breakfast by 7.15. I was smart and got all the streets between my houose and the shop, and, because i was reliable and trustworthy I always got my pick of the spare rounds when people were on holiday or ill. Happy days. Christmas was particularly nice, I got £398 in tips one year. Straight into my National Savings account at 14.75% interest too.

I thought it is illegal for under 16s to start work before 7am? The shop I did a paper round from wouldn't let us leave the shop until exactly 7.

You therefore worked for an employer who broke the law. That's not good advice for anyone.

a) It wasnt advice, it was a recounting of some facts
b) Was that law in place when I was delivering papers?
c) Who gives a flying fk, I was delivering papers not down the pit