How the hell do people afford cars these days?
Discussion
silent ninja said:
Sure, typical consumerist response. Consumerism is live and well.
When your car is nicer than your home, or a pension is something distant in the future so who cares with minimal contribution, or paying your kids uni fees are their problem not yours that they'll be in a lifetime of debt, yes those are all choices which everyone is free to make. All I said was that only serving short term interests is stupid. Keeping up with the Jones' is stupid. Mathematically, many people are spending beyond their means - you see that in growing debt figures.
But you are right it's their choice. I'm not judging THEM, I'm judging the short termist thinking and lack of basic financial knowledge taught in schools.
"Consumerism is a social and economic order that encourages the acquisition of goods and services in ever-increasing amounts." - one definition according to the net. When your car is nicer than your home, or a pension is something distant in the future so who cares with minimal contribution, or paying your kids uni fees are their problem not yours that they'll be in a lifetime of debt, yes those are all choices which everyone is free to make. All I said was that only serving short term interests is stupid. Keeping up with the Jones' is stupid. Mathematically, many people are spending beyond their means - you see that in growing debt figures.
But you are right it's their choice. I'm not judging THEM, I'm judging the short termist thinking and lack of basic financial knowledge taught in schools.
So let's say someone decides not to chase after having a nice home and spending on all the things that go inside a nice home (isn't that consumerism?), and chooses to buy a "not so nice" home (or even just rent a small place) because having a "nice home" (whatever that means) is not their financial priority, and they enjoy the latest new cars every few years or even just choosing to live a life that's different from the conventional obsession with "house ownership" and "keeping up with the jones" where many feel under pressure to constantly upgrade to an even bigger and "nicer" house every few years in order to impress everyone and feel like one has "succeeded" in life by being able to mention how much one's house has gone up in value.
Yeah, only people who take out PCPs and leases are guilty of consumerism. Everyone else driving an older car is not guilty of consumerism. Right?
There’s nothing wrong with having a nice new car but let’s be honest cheap easy credit has gone way too far and the UK has proven that many people do not have enough personal responsibility to do the maths for themselves.
Hopefully that is now been corrected along with other things and my children will not be supporting the children of today’s feckless through their own taxes and hard work.
Hopefully that is now been corrected along with other things and my children will not be supporting the children of today’s feckless through their own taxes and hard work.
What The Deuces said:
a) It wasnt advice, it was a recounting of some facts
b) Was that law in place when I was delivering papers?
c) Who gives a flying f
k, I was delivering papers not down the pit
Of course I broke the law too in that respect. b) Was that law in place when I was delivering papers?
c) Who gives a flying f
k, I was delivering papers not down the pitStarted serving petrol in Ireland at 11, got the boat to England at 14 and stated summer work. Union card at 16. Scholarships through school and graduated at 21. Zero holidays from 11yrs old and worked every Christmas Day. When you are poor you do what you need to get ahead. I see nothing wrong with it. Nobody made me do it ands work was available.
I am aware that this is harder to do now, but personally I would work at anywhere doing anything if I needed to get ahead. I recall doing stuff like working on acid baths with no protection. Looking back it all seems perfectly OK to me. I have travelled extensively in the world and this kind of thing is very normal in many places.
nickfrog said:
Yes sure I know what you meant and agree that too much debt is bad. But the constant conflation between having a nice car and being a debt junkie is tiresome.
I wasn't making that point either really someone else might have been. I was just making the point that high leveraged debt society can affect us all quite badly if it goes wrong.RDMcG said:
What The Deuces said:
a) It wasnt advice, it was a recounting of some facts
b) Was that law in place when I was delivering papers?
c) Who gives a flying fk, I was delivering papers not down the pit
Of course I broke the law too in that respect. b) Was that law in place when I was delivering papers?
c) Who gives a flying f
k, I was delivering papers not down the pitStarted serving petrol in Ireland at 11, got the boat to England at 14 and stated summer work. Union card at 16. Scholarships through school and graduated at 21. Zero holidays from 11yrs old and worked every Christmas Day. When you are poor you do what you need to get ahead. I see nothing wrong with it. Nobody made me do it ands work was available.
I am aware that this is harder to do now, but personally I would work at anywhere doing anything if I needed to get ahead. I recall doing stuff like working on acid baths with no protection. Looking back it all seems perfectly OK to me. I have travelled extensively in the world and this kind of thing is very normal in many places.
raspy said:
What if you are able to generate and retain wealth on your own terms in this life and have income throughout your life from multiple sources? What's wrong with buying a car on finance if you have the ability to invest capital elsewhere for higher returns? I know plenty of people who take on debt to buy very expensive cars, because it would be more expensive to pull money from their investments to sink into a car.
The number of people that do this, as a percentage of people taking out finance are relatively small. It's more people that take out substantial finance agreements and leave themselves with little wiggle room (if any) in their finances. Most people have relatively small amounts in savings and investments, other than their pensions (and some don't even have this).Apologies in advance if this has been covered in this thread or if I’m just being thick, however isn’t it the case that list prices have increased so notably in recent years, at least in part due to cheap credit and the fixation on the monthlies rather than the outright cost?
That being the case, surely the inevitable rise in interest rates, and the likelihood that GFVs will also have to be more conservative, will serve to make cars look awfully expensive whether viewed on a list price basis or on PCP etc? Have manufacturers been pushing the list prices up in the naïve belief that interest rates will remain low forever?
That being the case, surely the inevitable rise in interest rates, and the likelihood that GFVs will also have to be more conservative, will serve to make cars look awfully expensive whether viewed on a list price basis or on PCP etc? Have manufacturers been pushing the list prices up in the naïve belief that interest rates will remain low forever?
david-j8694 said:
pb8g09 said:
silent ninja said:
I'm on a six figure salary in Consulting. Have a wife and 3 kids. I drive a SEAT Ateca 2019 plate - a modest car. I can't afford anything more. Given I live in the Midlands where cost of living is lower than the south, I'm well off enough but others on half my salary have fancy BMW 5 series fresh from showroom and whatever else. The numbers eventually catch up: just like you can't outrun a bad diet, you can't outrun reckless short term focused spending/debt.
I'm not on a six figure salary. I don't have any kids, but do have a partner. I drive a BMW on a 65 plate. I could afford more. I live on the south coast, my house was expensive compared to the national average. I have a 24% pension contribution per annum. Edited by silent ninja on Thursday 1st September 08:40
None of this matters of course, just like yours, because everyone has the right to do what they want with their money. Some might say having 3 kids is a reckless use of money. It's probably worse for your health from stress and tiredness and you'll have a shorter retirement than if you didn't. We're all different. Seems strange to assume people are f*cked just because they're different to you.
We all know the DINKY lifestyle is where the smart money's at
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
silent ninja said:
Kids are brilliant! Best project ever. It's the ultimate legacy.
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
silent ninja said:
Kids are brilliant! Best project ever. It's the ultimate legacy.
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
You can achieve that legacy having one child though?Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
silent ninja said:
Kids are brilliant! Best project ever. It's the ultimate legacy.
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
Yawn.Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
david-j8694 said:
silent ninja said:
Kids are brilliant! Best project ever. It's the ultimate legacy.
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
Yawn.Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
david-j8694 said:
silent ninja said:
Kids are brilliant! Best project ever. It's the ultimate legacy.
Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
Yawn.Brushing my teeth everyday and maintaining the car is a faff. Doesn't mean those things aren't worth doing and rewarding in the long run.
When dying people are asked what they regret, not buying a certain car isn't on the list. It's a nice to have but a fleeting material object. Let's not try to add any greater meaning to it
could be children, nothing wrong with that but the incredible memories we’ve made so far without them & only possible without children, is a keeping us very happy as we proceed through life together.
Legacy? Fek that! Neither of us have any interest in that kind of thing, dont really understand the mentality of it either..
Aventador 700 said:
Quite.. legacy? Fek that, make memories, thats what people look back on,.
could be children, nothing wrong with that but the incredible memories we’ve made so far without them & only possible without children, is a keeping us very happy as we proceed through life together.
Legacy? Fek that! Neither of us have any interest in that kind of thing, dont really understand the mentality of it either..
Only possible to you...could be children, nothing wrong with that but the incredible memories we’ve made so far without them & only possible without children, is a keeping us very happy as we proceed through life together.
Legacy? Fek that! Neither of us have any interest in that kind of thing, dont really understand the mentality of it either..
There's not many things that you can't do with kids/without really, save going and living on a desert island with a newborn or something (even then, you probably could) - the biggest factor in what you can and cannot do is money. As with most things - with enough of it, you can do almost anything regardless of having kids - is my take. You may well have an aventador and live in a studio flat, I don't know...
Obviously people are free to choose whether to have children or not and certainly it is hard to deny with a moaning toddler that sometimes you remember the simple life, but there isn't anything material that I could afford to buy that would even come close to seeing your children progress in terms of a 'memory'.
okgo said:
Aventador 700 said:
Quite.. legacy? Fek that, make memories, thats what people look back on,.
could be children, nothing wrong with that but the incredible memories we’ve made so far without them & only possible without children, is a keeping us very happy as we proceed through life together.
Legacy? Fek that! Neither of us have any interest in that kind of thing, dont really understand the mentality of it either..
Only possible to you...could be children, nothing wrong with that but the incredible memories we’ve made so far without them & only possible without children, is a keeping us very happy as we proceed through life together.
Legacy? Fek that! Neither of us have any interest in that kind of thing, dont really understand the mentality of it either..
There's not many things that you can't do with kids/without really, save going and living on a desert island with a newborn or something (even then, you probably could) - the biggest factor in what you can and cannot do is money. As with most things - with enough of it, you can do almost anything regardless of having kids - is my take.
Obviously people are free to choose whether to have children or not and certainly it is hard to deny with a moaning toddler that sometimes you remember the simple life, but there isn't anything material that I could afford to buy that would even come close to seeing your children progress in terms of a 'memory'.
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