What should I get. Opinions Please.
Discussion
Had a mate who went through 2 engines in an S2000 which is apparently quite common as the big ends go over 100k. Very classy car though!
Had a 350Z which although felt very special, I actually preferred my 328! I think this sort of thing can be really subjective as I love how refined the BM is when cruising yet transforms into an awesome performance car when you're in the mood. So it's the sort of car you can drive up to North Wales and still be up for having some fun. Whereas the 350Z would have tired you out by that point as it just commands involvement all the time and beats you into driving it hard instead of incentivising you.
But I'm also the sort of person that likes a not-to-flashy car as otherwise you just attract lots of unwanted attention. There's a lot of jealous idiots out there who enjoy hating what other people have worked hard for unfortunately
That said if it were me I'd be going for the '86! I've been there and done that with high powered cars and having a car you can really work on the road is way more rewarding than the rare opportunity you get to use all the performance you're paying so much for. I tend to see most of those cars you've listed as track day weapons rather than fun road cars, but that's just me.
Had a 350Z which although felt very special, I actually preferred my 328! I think this sort of thing can be really subjective as I love how refined the BM is when cruising yet transforms into an awesome performance car when you're in the mood. So it's the sort of car you can drive up to North Wales and still be up for having some fun. Whereas the 350Z would have tired you out by that point as it just commands involvement all the time and beats you into driving it hard instead of incentivising you.
But I'm also the sort of person that likes a not-to-flashy car as otherwise you just attract lots of unwanted attention. There's a lot of jealous idiots out there who enjoy hating what other people have worked hard for unfortunately
That said if it were me I'd be going for the '86! I've been there and done that with high powered cars and having a car you can really work on the road is way more rewarding than the rare opportunity you get to use all the performance you're paying so much for. I tend to see most of those cars you've listed as track day weapons rather than fun road cars, but that's just me.
zeppelin101 said:
I had an E46 M3 for 6 months. Bored me to tears 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time was worrying what someone was going to do to it when I left it anywhere and finding enough room to try and enjoy it on the road.
Problem for me with them is this (irrespective of wallet disasters):
They are hugely capable and have lots of available grip, which imo, makes them tricky to enjoy on the road as you never really feel like you can wring its neck without immense risk of falling off the road and being killed to death. Conversely, the brakes as standard are so appalling that you would want to drop 3k straight away on a brake upgrade to use it in anger on the track.
Then there are any wallet disasters that may occur. VANOS failures are less common on the S54s compared to the older units found in the E36.
Nice places to be day-to-day, and high 20s MPG is easy to achieve regularly. I think I averaged 28 out of mine over those 6 months with some sporadic expeditions up to 30mpg when I had a very relaxed tank. I do 360 miles per week so a tank wasn't lasting that long.
As good as the 19s look, avoid if you enjoy comfort. I wish I had bought one on 18s, maybe it would have made it a little more engaging more of the time. The ride was intolerable on some surfaces though, but acceptable once up to speed.
Steering is pretty crap standard imo, I had mine on some coilovers and the additional camber up front transformed the way the car felt to drive.
As good a car as it was (exceptional all rounder), I wouldn't have another. The engine is an utter masterpiece but the rest of the car left me a little cold as far as enjoyment goes. Also the driveline is appalling for what was a 50k car.
This was entirely true of my E36 M3 too. Great engine in a very average car. Over hyped IMHO.Problem for me with them is this (irrespective of wallet disasters):
They are hugely capable and have lots of available grip, which imo, makes them tricky to enjoy on the road as you never really feel like you can wring its neck without immense risk of falling off the road and being killed to death. Conversely, the brakes as standard are so appalling that you would want to drop 3k straight away on a brake upgrade to use it in anger on the track.
Then there are any wallet disasters that may occur. VANOS failures are less common on the S54s compared to the older units found in the E36.
Nice places to be day-to-day, and high 20s MPG is easy to achieve regularly. I think I averaged 28 out of mine over those 6 months with some sporadic expeditions up to 30mpg when I had a very relaxed tank. I do 360 miles per week so a tank wasn't lasting that long.
As good as the 19s look, avoid if you enjoy comfort. I wish I had bought one on 18s, maybe it would have made it a little more engaging more of the time. The ride was intolerable on some surfaces though, but acceptable once up to speed.
Steering is pretty crap standard imo, I had mine on some coilovers and the additional camber up front transformed the way the car felt to drive.
As good a car as it was (exceptional all rounder), I wouldn't have another. The engine is an utter masterpiece but the rest of the car left me a little cold as far as enjoyment goes. Also the driveline is appalling for what was a 50k car.
unpc said:
This was entirely true of my E36 M3 too. Great engine in a very average car. Over hyped IMHO.
I enjoyed the tweaked E36 I drove on track, and I had a 328 last winter which was good fun. Not sure how much of the fun factor of the 328 was down to the fact it was pretty f
ked and had 220k miles on it though...For a car with an open diff though, it was hilariously drifty.
As always, thanks so much for the replies guys. Means a lot. So good to have a decent discussion with fellow petrol-heads!
SpunkyGlory.
Yeah, I have thought about the Z4M as I think they look awesome. However, I've read a few times that the chassis isn't much to write home about. Bags of understeer, then a quick snap over oversteer.
I could be wrong, just going off what I've read.
Snowboy.
Is it really as much as £400 for a full geo? I understand if the adjusters have seized up it can pricey to fix, but I never thought it would cost as much as £400 just to set the car up.
TDI-North have quoted me £120 for a full geo. provided nothing has seized. Maybe they're not as thorough as the specialists you have quoted.
I love the idea of them being tail happy and a good challenge to drive. I just get put off when I hear they're unpredictable!
Ved.
I love the 1M. Think it's such a special and unique car.
Are they supposed to be reliable though? This would be relevant now with their warranties running out.
McWigglebum4th.
I think you're more of a manly man than me! ;-)
Crusoe.
If I had a nice bit of spare cash sitting there to cover repairs and upkeep I'd go for the M3 in a heartbeat. All the reasons you have stated are why I want one. I once followed one on a track in a Fireblade engined Mac1. Although I was going faster, I'd imagine he was having more fun sliding it around the slower corners!
How did you write your S2000 off if you don't mind me asking? Also what was it that you missed the most to make you go back into ownership?
I've watched the Chris Harris video with the 370z in a few times and he did say they kind of loose their composure when you really push them. This is something to bear in mind.
zeppelin101.
When you say the M3 is just like another 3 series when pottering. Isn't this a good thing as to how liveable they are? You can just cruise or when you really want to put the hammer down, it will play with you.
The Crack Fox.
No lotus I'm afraid. I've driven an Exige S and loved it. I think it's a little too hardcore for me as a daily. I'd love to have one as a toy one day.
TommyBuoy.
It's this sort of thing that makes me lean toward the S2000. Just seems like a good car to go with. Affordable and fun!
TREMAiNE.
No MX5 for me unfortunately. Although I can see the appeal and don't doubt their worth, I'm just not excited much by them. *runs off to hide behind the sofa.... ;-)
VeeFource.
Two engines in an S2000! Sounds like bad luck to me. If I were to buy one, I'd be getting a low miler (around the 30k mark) so hopefully this wouldn't be a problem for me.
With the 350, how do you mean it beat you into driving it fast? Was it not that rewarding when you did push it?
I know exactly what you mean about the '86. Enough power to be fun, but not too much that you can't stretch its legs on the road.
LayZ.
I do love Caymans but I can't imagine many people specking the LSD when they got the order book out. This is why I prefer the R. It's got all the 'go-faster' goodies already on it fresh out of the box.
SpunkyGlory.
Yeah, I have thought about the Z4M as I think they look awesome. However, I've read a few times that the chassis isn't much to write home about. Bags of understeer, then a quick snap over oversteer.
I could be wrong, just going off what I've read.
Snowboy.
Is it really as much as £400 for a full geo? I understand if the adjusters have seized up it can pricey to fix, but I never thought it would cost as much as £400 just to set the car up.
TDI-North have quoted me £120 for a full geo. provided nothing has seized. Maybe they're not as thorough as the specialists you have quoted.
I love the idea of them being tail happy and a good challenge to drive. I just get put off when I hear they're unpredictable!
Ved.
I love the 1M. Think it's such a special and unique car.
Are they supposed to be reliable though? This would be relevant now with their warranties running out.
McWigglebum4th.
I think you're more of a manly man than me! ;-)
Crusoe.
If I had a nice bit of spare cash sitting there to cover repairs and upkeep I'd go for the M3 in a heartbeat. All the reasons you have stated are why I want one. I once followed one on a track in a Fireblade engined Mac1. Although I was going faster, I'd imagine he was having more fun sliding it around the slower corners!
How did you write your S2000 off if you don't mind me asking? Also what was it that you missed the most to make you go back into ownership?
I've watched the Chris Harris video with the 370z in a few times and he did say they kind of loose their composure when you really push them. This is something to bear in mind.
zeppelin101.
When you say the M3 is just like another 3 series when pottering. Isn't this a good thing as to how liveable they are? You can just cruise or when you really want to put the hammer down, it will play with you.
The Crack Fox.
No lotus I'm afraid. I've driven an Exige S and loved it. I think it's a little too hardcore for me as a daily. I'd love to have one as a toy one day.
TommyBuoy.
It's this sort of thing that makes me lean toward the S2000. Just seems like a good car to go with. Affordable and fun!
TREMAiNE.
No MX5 for me unfortunately. Although I can see the appeal and don't doubt their worth, I'm just not excited much by them. *runs off to hide behind the sofa.... ;-)
VeeFource.
Two engines in an S2000! Sounds like bad luck to me. If I were to buy one, I'd be getting a low miler (around the 30k mark) so hopefully this wouldn't be a problem for me.
With the 350, how do you mean it beat you into driving it fast? Was it not that rewarding when you did push it?
I know exactly what you mean about the '86. Enough power to be fun, but not too much that you can't stretch its legs on the road.
LayZ.
I do love Caymans but I can't imagine many people specking the LSD when they got the order book out. This is why I prefer the R. It's got all the 'go-faster' goodies already on it fresh out of the box.
For me, no. I can't describe why it irks me, but surely if you're going to have a top line model with massive amounts of performance it should feel a little special? It just doesn't to sit in. I don't like that.
At least in the other cars (1M excluded) it will feel different because they are their own models as it were, rather than tarted up versions of a basic car with a posh engine in it.
I really, really wanted to like it, but in the end it just bored the tits off me.
At least in the other cars (1M excluded) it will feel different because they are their own models as it were, rather than tarted up versions of a basic car with a posh engine in it.
I really, really wanted to like it, but in the end it just bored the tits off me.
If you're considering the S2K you should test drive an Elise. Superior in every way IME. The S2K still remains the my most dissapointing drive, didn't like the feel of it and it never composed itself unless on billiard smooth roads. I would go Boxster for more comfort in a soft top, the Honda wouldn't even be considered, and that's from a Honda fan.
ECG1000 said:
SpunkyGlory.
Yeah, I have thought about the Z4M as I think they look awesome. However, I've read a few times that the chassis isn't much to write home about. Bags of understeer, then a quick snap over oversteer.
I could be wrong, just going off what I've read.
This is the reason why you're finding it hard to choose. Going from internet reviews, you're only going to find hugely polarised opinions.Yeah, I have thought about the Z4M as I think they look awesome. However, I've read a few times that the chassis isn't much to write home about. Bags of understeer, then a quick snap over oversteer.
I could be wrong, just going off what I've read.
Get out and drive a few - what one person calls "Bags of understeer, then a quick snap over oversteer" might feel like the most incredibly composed chassis in the world to you.
Completely agree
My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire
)
My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire
)Herbs said:
Completely agree
My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire )
+2My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire
)I've driven a Z4M and owned a Z4 Coupe and thought they were both lovely cars to drive. So much so that I'll be looking for a Z4M in January.
Wife has a 350Z, very boring drive. Not that quick and you are totally isolated from the road. Dull and boring car but on the plus side, she thrashes the living st out of it and at 88,000 miles it is as good as new and has never broken down except a duff battery last year and a precautionary change of a rear wheel bearing which was starting to grumble lightly at 70,000 miles.
M power BMW, hmmm, bit run of the mill and extortionate when they go wrong, truly mind boggling costs for wall to wall cheap plastic. My mate a had a red one, we called it the clitoris because it's red an everys got one.
S2000, potential money pit as a lot of the bits are quite car specific but what a drive.
GT86.. Buy a push bike, it's quicker and more fun.
t out of it and at 88,000 miles it is as good as new and has never broken down except a duff battery last year and a precautionary change of a rear wheel bearing which was starting to grumble lightly at 70,000 miles.M power BMW, hmmm, bit run of the mill and extortionate when they go wrong, truly mind boggling costs for wall to wall cheap plastic. My mate a had a red one, we called it the clitoris because it's red an every
s got one. S2000, potential money pit as a lot of the bits are quite car specific but what a drive.
GT86.. Buy a push bike, it's quicker and more fun.
zeppelin101.
I know what you mean now. However, I've never owned a BMW before though. My Dad had various fast ones when I was kid so I think if I sat in an M3, all those fond memories would come flooding back. Could be wrong, and it could be a disappontment.
yonex.
If I were to go for a Lotus it would have to be an Exige, but only as a weekend/track toy.
Did you find the S2000 was just too nervous and fidgety on the bumpy roads, stopping you from enjoying yourself.
Crusoe.
Oh right. We've all been there! I did a double somersault into a field in my Mini when I was 21. Not one of my proudest moments. I blamed it on there being diesel on the road at the time to make myself feel better!
Dave200, Herbs and SpunkyGlory.
Yeah I agree with you all. When I'm making my list I have to off gut feeling and what I've read to land on a selection of cars though.
I won't know which one is for me until I've tested them. I can't help getting put off when I read the same point coming from different reviewers.
I live just outside Huddersfeld in the country side where the roads are fun but can be bumpy and uneven.
For me, I think the E46 would be better at coping with this than a Z4.
Maybe one to add to the list though....
fatjon.
Haha! If I ever do get an M3, it will be called the clitoris...even if it's blue.
The GT86 can't be that bad can it? There's just something about them that appeals to me.
Thank you so much for all the feedback guys.
Got a lot of test driving to do now!
I know what you mean now. However, I've never owned a BMW before though. My Dad had various fast ones when I was kid so I think if I sat in an M3, all those fond memories would come flooding back. Could be wrong, and it could be a disappontment.
yonex.
If I were to go for a Lotus it would have to be an Exige, but only as a weekend/track toy.
Did you find the S2000 was just too nervous and fidgety on the bumpy roads, stopping you from enjoying yourself.
Crusoe.
Oh right. We've all been there! I did a double somersault into a field in my Mini when I was 21. Not one of my proudest moments. I blamed it on there being diesel on the road at the time to make myself feel better!
Dave200, Herbs and SpunkyGlory.
Yeah I agree with you all. When I'm making my list I have to off gut feeling and what I've read to land on a selection of cars though.
I won't know which one is for me until I've tested them. I can't help getting put off when I read the same point coming from different reviewers.
I live just outside Huddersfeld in the country side where the roads are fun but can be bumpy and uneven.
For me, I think the E46 would be better at coping with this than a Z4.
Maybe one to add to the list though....
fatjon.
Haha! If I ever do get an M3, it will be called the clitoris...even if it's blue.
The GT86 can't be that bad can it? There's just something about them that appeals to me.
Thank you so much for all the feedback guys.
Got a lot of test driving to do now!
For a full geo then it's a £400 job.
This is (roughly) true of any car from an Audi to a Zonda.
For £100-150 the garage will get you with manufacture tolerances.
For £400 you'll get much tighter tolerances and the engineer should be able to offer fine tuning for track, fast road, bit of drift or other setups.
Most people who say they don't like any particular car have probably driven a badly set up one.
Imagine a table with 2 legs different lengths to others - that's how a bad geo handles.
Any car on that list, and the cars others have suggested, would benefit from a £400 geo and some budget for replacing worn bushes.
So.
Do you want an overpowered corporate box, a coupe, a 2 door softtop , a hot hatch of what?
This is (roughly) true of any car from an Audi to a Zonda.
For £100-150 the garage will get you with manufacture tolerances.
For £400 you'll get much tighter tolerances and the engineer should be able to offer fine tuning for track, fast road, bit of drift or other setups.
Most people who say they don't like any particular car have probably driven a badly set up one.
Imagine a table with 2 legs different lengths to others - that's how a bad geo handles.
Any car on that list, and the cars others have suggested, would benefit from a £400 geo and some budget for replacing worn bushes.
So.
Do you want an overpowered corporate box, a coupe, a 2 door softtop , a hot hatch of what?
Matt UK.
This will hopefully be me one day. The shed won't be a shed though. It will be something smooth and comfortable than can entertain enough on a quick b-road blast when I'm in the mood.
Snowboy.
I learn something new everyday!
I took my EP3 to TDI for a "fast road setup" at £120. I had to pay extra for camber bolts for the front and adjustable arms for the back but the difference before and after was night and day!
So does a full geo. adjust more than just camber and toe?
Can't properly answer your last question yet, hence starting this thread. I can definitely say I don't want a hot hatch though. Had hatchbacks since I first started driving so think it's time to move on.
james_gt3rs.
I've often liked the sound of owning an MR2. I'd have one over an MX5 for sure. Bit too cute for me though.
Crusoe.
I'm bang on 6ft thankfully.
Have you ever had a hard top for your S2000's? If so do they creak and groan once fitted?
I think I can say that so far I'm most tempted go for an E46 M3, S2000 or GT86....
The S2000 is the most affordable for me. Dare I say it, I might even be able to do a straight swap for a tidy 2008/09 model with my Clio...? I like the idea of it being a soft-top and it being a challenge to drive properly.
I want the M3 the most but can't shake the thought of it breaking the bank keeping it on the road.
The GT86 is the most sensible choice but I don't want to buy one then get bored after 6 months when it's value has dropped even more.
I'll do some test driving and report back.
This will hopefully be me one day. The shed won't be a shed though. It will be something smooth and comfortable than can entertain enough on a quick b-road blast when I'm in the mood.
Snowboy.
I learn something new everyday!
I took my EP3 to TDI for a "fast road setup" at £120. I had to pay extra for camber bolts for the front and adjustable arms for the back but the difference before and after was night and day!
So does a full geo. adjust more than just camber and toe?
Can't properly answer your last question yet, hence starting this thread. I can definitely say I don't want a hot hatch though. Had hatchbacks since I first started driving so think it's time to move on.
james_gt3rs.
I've often liked the sound of owning an MR2. I'd have one over an MX5 for sure. Bit too cute for me though.
Crusoe.
I'm bang on 6ft thankfully.
Have you ever had a hard top for your S2000's? If so do they creak and groan once fitted?
I think I can say that so far I'm most tempted go for an E46 M3, S2000 or GT86....
The S2000 is the most affordable for me. Dare I say it, I might even be able to do a straight swap for a tidy 2008/09 model with my Clio...? I like the idea of it being a soft-top and it being a challenge to drive properly.
I want the M3 the most but can't shake the thought of it breaking the bank keeping it on the road.
The GT86 is the most sensible choice but I don't want to buy one then get bored after 6 months when it's value has dropped even more.
I'll do some test driving and report back.
Edited by ECG1000 on Wednesday 27th November 19:21
ECG1000 said:
I want the M3 the most but can't shake the thought of it breaking the bank keeping it on the road.
BMW e46 M3 looks great value now - and in my mind one of the great modern engines. I'm no expert but I don't hear endless stories of bork. They sold trillions of 'em, so there is no doubt a strong Inde market / internet support out there to help out when you need to replace/repair.
Just do it!
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