Manheim Auction prices and simulcast
Discussion
It is possible, I've seen it many times picked up what we think is a bargain only to see similar models for sale for less than we paid. Just one of those things. Good shout on the unusual stuff sold a one owner dihatsu sporttrak on a k reg within 12 hours for full asking with a £1100 profit. I also have an 05 golf tdi with one owner full history and sensible miles and I've had it for months
confused_buyer said:
To answer the OP's actual question:
No, selling prices are not available on simulcast unless you are the buyer.
However, Mannheim do give composite price information on their website and if there is only one car of a type in the last month you can work out what it went for.
That precise car sold for £7900 against a CAP Clean price of £7825 and a Retail CAP price of £9450.
Manheim's fees are not significantly lower than BCA's. They are a little bit but not a lot. Manheim quote them without VAT and BCA with which accounts for most of the difference.
are you 100% sure it went for £7900? cheapest similar on autotrader is £8390. see below. no margin in that then.No, selling prices are not available on simulcast unless you are the buyer.
However, Mannheim do give composite price information on their website and if there is only one car of a type in the last month you can work out what it went for.
That precise car sold for £7900 against a CAP Clean price of £7825 and a Retail CAP price of £9450.
Manheim's fees are not significantly lower than BCA's. They are a little bit but not a lot. Manheim quote them without VAT and BCA with which accounts for most of the difference.
legendtrader said:
are you 100% sure it went for £7900? cheapest similar on autotrader is £8390. see below. no margin in that then.
No, I'm not 100% sure, but that is what the Manheim website says and it only lists one 64-plate 1.5 Tekna with 14k miles so must be the one. Against a CAP price of 7825 it is pretty much exactly what you'd expect it to go for.You're never going to make anything on cars like that - low mileage, late plate stuff is the domain of main dealers and car supermarkets.
confused_buyer said:
No, I'm not 100% sure, but that is what the Manheim website says and it only lists one 64-plate 1.5 Tekna with 14k miles so must be the one. Against a CAP price of 7825 it is pretty much exactly what you'd expect it to go for.
You're never going to make anything on cars like that - low mileage, late plate stuff is the domain of main dealers and car supermarkets.
ok. am i right in thinking these main dealers get this late plate, low mileage stock on part ex from people who are taking new car. This enables them to break even on these cars or make a small loss as the profit they make on the new car package means they make a margin on the whole transaction?You're never going to make anything on cars like that - low mileage, late plate stuff is the domain of main dealers and car supermarkets.
legendtrader said:
ok. am i right in thinking these main dealers get this late plate, low mileage stock on part ex from people who are taking new car. This enables them to break even on these cars or make a small loss as the profit they make on the new car package means they make a margin on the whole transaction?
Sometimes, but a lot also source from manufacturer auctions and lease disposals. The reality is that margins on those type of cars are small and main dealers with all the back-up can ask better prices and make extras on bolt-ons.There is no real short cut. The "safe" buys at auction always fetch good money and have low margins as they are low risk (in terms of them being a dog) and bought up by the big boys.
The only auction sourced cars I made any money on last month was a Saab Aero (bought for £200 and sold for £1700 but needed a lot of fiddly work), an old Lexus which I had to have all the nav screen rebuilt on, two new parking sensors etc. and an 09-plate Volvo V70 which was about the tattiest thing I've ever seen at that age but was half price and I had a queue around the corner when I pitched it at under CAP trade to sell. It went OK though and a good MOP helped a bit.
Basically, you have to add some value to make your margin. If it was as easy as pitching up at Manheim, buying a few low risk cars and turning them around in 2 weeks with nothing extra needing to be done the whole world would be doing it.
I seldomly buy anything from auction now, however a friend wanted a TT, I bought a bog standard car with zero extras from BCA Grade 2 assured, needed no prep barring a missing parcel shelf....car did £13900 which is 800 into trade book +fees....same cars were available retail with warranty for £15995 prior to negotation...not much margin, the auction house were the big profiteers as it was bought by WBAC which are owned by BCA
confused_buyer said:
.... If it was as easy as pitching up at Manheim, buying a few low risk cars and turning them around in 2 weeks with nothing extra needing to be done the whole world would be doing it.
I think that's the problem, the whole world is trying to do it. Auctions are full of punters with no real idea on the value of what they're bidding on, they just have the mindset that it must be cheap because its here!TallPaul said:
I think that's the problem, the whole world is trying to do it. Auctions are full of punters with no real idea on the value of what they're bidding on, they just have the mindset that it must be cheap because its here!
you just about summed it up. I am switching tactics and buying from dealers in a niche market. Typically moving cars from midlands/north/scotland down south.You get better deals using the online dealer only auctions, but as a new trader you won't get an account. My mate can look at a picture of a car, he is on great terms with a body shop, and I do all the mechanics. He know roughly what the body shop will charge for panels, bumpers dents etc etc
With that in mind he can work out the cost within a few hundred, and usually makes about £500 per car.
Everytime he goes to an auction house, he comes back amazed at the price cars are selling for, above cap clean, regardless of condition.
He has a dealer he buys from in Scotland, but all these dealers have lists of traders they are going to sell to, how do you plan on getting on that list?
Also, Scottish cars are rusty, it takes ages to prep them. I had to replace a front subframe on a 6 year old corsa because it rusted through!
So have you arranged the following to do your work?
A garage/mechanic
Body shop
Alloy wheel refurb
Tyre fitting
Card payments
With that in mind he can work out the cost within a few hundred, and usually makes about £500 per car.
Everytime he goes to an auction house, he comes back amazed at the price cars are selling for, above cap clean, regardless of condition.
He has a dealer he buys from in Scotland, but all these dealers have lists of traders they are going to sell to, how do you plan on getting on that list?
Also, Scottish cars are rusty, it takes ages to prep them. I had to replace a front subframe on a 6 year old corsa because it rusted through!
So have you arranged the following to do your work?
A garage/mechanic
Body shop
Alloy wheel refurb
Tyre fitting
Card payments
Andyjc86 said:
So have you arranged the following to do your work?
A garage/mechanic
Body shop
Alloy wheel refurb
Tyre fitting
Card payments
yes apart from the card payments. I am going to take payment by bank transfer only. much easier and all free with Santander business banking (no charges 1st 12 months). I am not planning on buying anything that needs work though, will be working in the <2 years <30k miles category. Obviously there will be the odd thing that needs doing. Each car will have at least 9 months left on the manafacturers warranty, planning to call local manafacturer service department with VIN number to confirm how much warranty is left before buying. I am going to provide a 3 month - 1000 mile additional warranty in addition to the unexpired manafacturers warranty. A garage/mechanic
Body shop
Alloy wheel refurb
Tyre fitting
Card payments
rallycross said:
legendtrader said:
I am not planning on buying anything that needs work though,
Well with that momentous statement you can tear up your business plan now, either give up or start again with some reality thrown in - what a crazy plan.legendtrader said:
yes apart from the card payments. I am going to take payment by bank transfer only. much easier and all free with Santander business banking (no charges 1st 12 months). I am not planning on buying anything that needs work though, will be working in the <2 years <30k miles category. Obviously there will be the odd thing that needs doing. Each car will have at least 9 months left on the manafacturers warranty, planning to call local manafacturer service department with VIN number to confirm how much warranty is left before buying. I am going to provide a 3 month - 1000 mile additional warranty in addition to the unexpired manafacturers warranty.
So youre going to give the impression of a 12 months warranty? Topping up the manufacturers and adding a measly 1000 miles extra? Who is underwriting that warranty, you? Good luck with that. 3 months warranty top up for even us 'big 3 prestige' is around £300 depending on model. whatchagonna do month 10 when the mechatronic unit goes and you face a 2k bill?TVR1 said:
So youre going to give the impression of a 12 months warranty? Topping up the manufacturers and adding a measly 1000 miles extra? Who is underwriting that warranty, you? Good luck with that. 3 months warranty top up for even us 'big 3 prestige' is around £300 depending on model. whatchagonna do month 10 when the mechatronic unit goes and you face a 2k bill?
No. I will clearly explain how much manafacturers warranty is left on the car. I will offer a self funded warranty on top using http://www.warrantyadmin.co.uk/. This will likely be a 3 months / 1000 miles term. I might stretch it out to 6 months / 2000 miles. In the scenario you mention above the customer would be referred to the manafacturer as it would be outside of my 3 months warranty. If the customer reports a fault to me in the first 3 months I will ask them to return the car (or get it recovered using the recovery on the warranty admin product). I will then get the issue fixed immediately if its a small <£200 job. If it's a larger job I will go to the manafacturer with the issue. legendtrader said:
Andyjc86 said:
So you're looking to buy fully prepped dealers cars for sale, not trade ins?
yes working a niche in that area.Say they have the car advertised at £10k, it will only be worth slightly more then £10k down south surely?
Have you actually spoken to dealers about the discounts they'll give you?
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