Big Estate vs Car and Van

[donkmeister]

Someone has already mentioned a trailer for the motorbikes...

A car with a towbar may give you the most options. Bikes? Towbar mounted carrier, no mud in car. Motorbikes? Motorbike trailers are cheap. Paraglider? Strap to motorbike trailer or get a box trailer with lashing points for motorbikes AND paraglider.

[RobM77]

donkmeister said:

Someone has already mentioned a trailer for the motorbikes...

A car with a towbar may give you the most options. Bikes? Towbar mounted carrier, no mud in car. Motorbikes? Motorbike trailers are cheap. Paraglider? Strap to motorbike trailer or get a box trailer with lashing points for motorbikes AND paraglider.

A friend of mine has a folding trailer for his GSXR1000 track bike and it sits in a corner of his shed when not used - he's very pleased with it. Given that I fit two Formula Renault front tyres, a nose cone, front wing, all my tools and some spares in the back of my 3 series saloon, I'm fairly sure the bike spares would go in a 5 series estate.

[Fastdruid]

I'm beginning to think that the only replacement for my Mondeo Estate would be a less practical car and a "van".

There is just nothing newer out there to replace it. Horrible "lifestyle" SUV's and "crossover" things, stupid cars on stilts. Estates that can't even tow. A sea of automatic 2l diesels with an occasional auto 2l petrol... Nothing of interest.

[RobM77]

Fastdruid said:

I'm beginning to think that the only replacement for my Mondeo Estate would be a less practical car and a "van".

There is just nothing newer out there to replace it. Horrible "lifestyle" SUV's and "crossover" things, stupid cars on stilts. Estates that can't even tow. A sea of automatic 2l diesels with an occasional auto 2l petrol... Nothing of interest.

How about a 3 or 5 series estate? The handling's in a different league to a Mondeo and you can choose your engine, from an economical 4cyl diesel right up to a screaming high revving V10 (or V8 if you don't mind a saloon). Or if you buy an economical model you can do what I've done and spend a couple of grand really sorting the suspension out, which has made a superb all rounder. M3s and M5s are now £20k for a reasonable one, and everything else (330i, 530i etc) is available for less. Personally, the only time I'd switch to a different arrangement would be if I could afford a decent van for £15kish (VW for example) and also a 911 or Evora etc.

[Fastdruid]

RobM77 said:

A friend of mine has a folding trailer for his GSXR1000 track bike and it sits in a corner of his shed when not used - he's very pleased with it. Given that I fit two Formula Renault front tyres, a nose cone, front wing, all my tools and some spares in the back of my 3 series saloon, I'm fairly sure the bike spares would go in a 5 series estate.

It was the original reason I bought an estate rather than using vans for every trackday. Bought a cheap (<£1k) Mondeo estate.
Wafted to the circuits in a nice comfortable aircon'd leather interior rather than the grotty hire van cabins and enough room to carry everything for two people.

My trailer doesn't fold though, although its got wheels on the bottom so it can be rolled down the side of the house and sits in the back garden.

[Fastdruid]

RobM77 said:

Fastdruid said:

I'm beginning to think that the only replacement for my Mondeo Estate would be a less practical car and a "van".

There is just nothing newer out there to replace it. Horrible "lifestyle" SUV's and "crossover" things, stupid cars on stilts. Estates that can't even tow. A sea of automatic 2l diesels with an occasional auto 2l petrol... Nothing of interest.

How about a 3 or 5 series estate?

5 Series are auto only.
3 Series are 2l 4-cyl unless you want an auto.

RobM77 said:

The handling's in a different league to a Mondeo and you can choose your engine, from an economical 4cyl diesel right up to a screaming high revving V10 (or V8 if you don't mind a saloon). Or if you buy an economical model you can do what I've done and spend a couple of grand really sorting the suspension out, which has made a superb all rounder.

I'm not going to get into the whole handling debate.

All the interesting ones are older or are going to cost a fortune to run and/or buy.

Much though I would love an M5 Touring it ruins half the point of an Estate... You're not going to want to be going down the tip with it! Plus all the "hot" estates you cant f**king tow with.

[Jimmy Recard]

Zad said:

LR Discovery Commercial? Should be enough room for the motorbike?

How tall is the motorbike? There isn't that much space between ceiling and load floor. The opening is a fair bit smaller than the internal dimensions too.

I measure it at 168cm length, 114cm width and 102cm height. The height of the opening is probably more like 92cm though, I'll go measure it now if it helps

[Zad]

I guess photos can be deceptive in terms of size.

[Jimmy Recard]

That definitely looks bigger than they actually are! I've just measured and the measurements I posted are correct (remembered from the last time I measured it)

[V8RX7]

Some vans are nicer to drive than than others, whilst they look awful the Hiace does drive like a car (albeit nothing like a 5 series)

The drawbacks are obvious but I don't mind driving my VW T4 - you simply adopt a different mindset.

It's a lot nicer to drive a van than a car with a trailer IMO and it's handy to park up without worrying your trailer or bike will be stolen.

However multiple insurance / tax / depreciation / MOT / servicing etc adds up.

[RobM77]

Fastdruid said:

I'm not going to get into the whole handling debate.

All the interesting ones are older or are going to cost a fortune to run and/or buy.

Much though I would love an M5 Touring it ruins half the point of an Estate... You're not going to want to be going down the tip with it! Plus all the "hot" estates you cant f**king tow with.

Between those extremes though you could get a manual E90 330i estate? Auto only is a recent thing isn't it?

Regarding handling, if you have the right spec there's no debate at all from most people, unless your tastes are particularly unusual and you prefer a cheap FWD setup over a well sorted RWD - handling is always subjective after all!!! Personally I'd recommend Birds suspension, with a Quaife diff for higher powered models, and modest tyres. The standard M Sport isn't bad mind you, but it can be bettered.

[Condi]

One decent car with a tow bar and variety of trailers is a good way to do it. Little 5ft by 4ft trailer for tip runs or serious DIY runs. Bike trailer or box trailer for carrying the motorbike and all the gear. And then come Monday morning you have a nice 3 series or A4 for sitting on the motorway.

[Fastdruid]

RobM77 said:

Fastdruid said:

I'm not going to get into the whole handling debate.

All the interesting ones are older or are going to cost a fortune to run and/or buy.

Much though I would love an M5 Touring it ruins half the point of an Estate... You're not going to want to be going down the tip with it! Plus all the "hot" estates you cant f**king tow with.

Between those extremes though you could get a manual E90 330i estate? Auto only is a recent thing isn't it?

The youngest E90 is 6 years old! The 330i they only did up until 2008 so it's not a newer car. The 3 is also too small (in comparison to the Mondeo).

RobM77 said:

Regarding handling, if you have the right spec there's no debate at all from most people, unless your tastes are particularly unusual and you prefer a cheap FWD setup over a well sorted RWD - handling is always subjective after all!!! Personally I'd recommend Birds suspension, with a Quaife diff for higher powered models, and modest tyres. The standard M Sport isn't bad mind you, but it can be bettered.

I know you have a hard on for BMW and do not accept that anything FWD even goes round corners let alone handles but the 2.5T is a very good handling car, it *is* better and nicer than some RWD cars. Is it better than a M3, absolutely not. Is it better than a boggo 316d, yes.

Where it sits in regards to the 5 I have no idea. In my head the 5 is better handling but haven't tried one to find out and as they are now all auto I'm not going to bother.

[RobM77]

Fastdruid said:

RobM77 said:

Fastdruid said:

I'm not going to get into the whole handling debate.

All the interesting ones are older or are going to cost a fortune to run and/or buy.

Much though I would love an M5 Touring it ruins half the point of an Estate... You're not going to want to be going down the tip with it! Plus all the "hot" estates you cant f**king tow with.

Between those extremes though you could get a manual E90 330i estate? Auto only is a recent thing isn't it?

The youngest E90 is 6 years old! The 330i they only did up until 2008 so it's not a newer car. The 3 is also too small (in comparison to the Mondeo).

RobM77 said:

Regarding handling, if you have the right spec there's no debate at all from most people, unless your tastes are particularly unusual and you prefer a cheap FWD setup over a well sorted RWD - handling is always subjective after all!!! Personally I'd recommend Birds suspension, with a Quaife diff for higher powered models, and modest tyres. The standard M Sport isn't bad mind you, but it can be bettered.

I know you have a hard on for BMW and do not accept that anything FWD even goes round corners let alone handles but the 2.5T is a very good handling car, it *is* better and nicer than some RWD cars. Is it better than a M3, absolutely not. Is it better than a boggo 316d, yes.

Where it sits in regards to the 5 I have no idea. In my head the 5 is better handling but haven't tried one to find out and as they are now all auto I'm not going to bother.

That's not really true; I raced FWD successfully for years and really rate a good number of FWD cars. I'm currently enjoying a discussion elsewhere online about how great the 106 GTi ad ITR were. The idea that a Mondeo handes better than a 3 series though, yes, you've got my opinion spot on for that - that's fking ridiculous.

My point is that if you don't like the 316d's handling you can make it handle like an M3, in fact better, cause you won't have a V8 lump up front. The M Sport standard spec goes a fair way towards this. I'm not particularly fussed about BMWs it happens, they do an awful lot wrong and I'm as much a critic as I am a fan, I'm just reallstic when it comes to comparisons with a Mondeo!!!

[rayyan171]

An SUV would suit you no problem. You'd be surprised in the little difference in cost it is to run an X5 compared to a 520d tourer. Also consider a Q7 or GLS for maximum load space(2009 onwards for GLS and Q7 are a must). Range Rover is there too. X5 rides much better than a 520d tourer, some argue it handles better too. Once you drive an SUV, you find it hard to think of alternatives.

[lord trumpton]

I'd just get a nice estate and manage with a trailer

I've recently bought a used F11 5 series for family stuff and it's so much quality car for the money!

[eliot]

Check the cost of insuring a van as it's gone up considerably over the last few years. I used to have a 1/5th share in a communal van that we used for dump runs and drunken ebay purchases - but the increased cost of insurance put paid to that many years ago.
We were going to get something like a ford galaxy instead but it never happened.

[48k]

What about a wheelchair converted small van like this VW Caddy Max - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[bcr5784]

What's wrong with a decent estate ( or even a saloon) and a box trailer? Cheaper to buy and run than two vehicles. The only real downside is limited speed on motorways.

[SWoll]

rayyan171 said:

An SUV would suit you no problem. You'd be surprised in the little difference in cost it is to run an X5 compared to a 520d tourer. Also consider a Q7 or GLS for maximum load space(2009 onwards for GLS and Q7 are a must). Range Rover is there too. X5 rides much better than a 520d tourer, some argue it handles better too. Once you drive an SUV, you find it hard to think of alternatives.

Really?

Smallest engine you'll get in an X5 for example is the 3.0D, which in a car weighing 2.2 tonnes willl see mid to high 20's MPG on average where the 520D will almost double that. An X5 will also be a lot harder on consumables such as brakes and tyres and be considerably older/leggy for the same purchase price so more prone to faults and big servicing bills.

The issue with BMW ride quality has always been the RFT's they insist on using. Buy a non M-Sport model and replace them with normal tyres and they ride and handle very well for such a big car.

You'll get no more in an X5 than a 5 Touring as well so would still need a towbar carrier/trailer to meet the OP's needs anyway.