How the hell do people afford cars these days?
Discussion
Lil_Red_GTV said:
To be clear, there is no world in which someone of modest means can drive an exotic supercar for the same price as a family runabout. If they could even get a loan of sufficient size, the monthly payments would be well over a grant a month alone. And that's before extortionate insurance, servicing etc.
If you already have the £65k required for a (10 year old) McLaren, you might come out no worse off than leasing something, but that's just a case of money begetting money.
It's a best a bit tone deaf (or at worst, trolling) to come onto a thread about how some people are struggling with the cost of cars these days and suggest buying a McLaren.
If you think my posts are trolling then there’s the option to report them.If you already have the £65k required for a (10 year old) McLaren, you might come out no worse off than leasing something, but that's just a case of money begetting money.
It's a best a bit tone deaf (or at worst, trolling) to come onto a thread about how some people are struggling with the cost of cars these days and suggest buying a McLaren.
If not, stop trying to police the forum.
okgo said:
Not sure anyone sends their kids to private school for willy waving purposes do they?
Pretty sure some of them do, but people have all sorts of reasons. Acquaintances have sometimes expressed surprise to my OH that she didn't send hers to one. She's not as snarky as I am, so she doesn't say "I didn't need to, they got into excellent state grammars on merit", but that's pretty much the size of it. If there hadn't been good state options she would have gone private, but these are people who just think it's the done thing for people of their social status.Ken_Code said:
FamousPheasant said:
Sorry, I was perhaps being overly subtle. The original quote referenced a leased Citroen, to which you replied with the money made on a Mclaren.
I'm just not sure why we are comparing a family hatchback to a McLaren and therefore came up with an even more absurd suggestion of an F1.
For most people cars are tools that need to reliably get people from A to B and that costs money regardless of how it's done. Although I like the idea, picking up the kid(s); doing a tip runs and nipping to Tesco in a 650s isn't necessarily going to work. I would also expect that doing 8/10K miles a year is going to somewhat increase depreciation and maintenance, offsetting some of those gains.
The comparison was to show that you can sometimes drive an exotic supercar for the same price as a family runabout, using my experience as an example.I'm just not sure why we are comparing a family hatchback to a McLaren and therefore came up with an even more absurd suggestion of an F1.
For most people cars are tools that need to reliably get people from A to B and that costs money regardless of how it's done. Although I like the idea, picking up the kid(s); doing a tip runs and nipping to Tesco in a 650s isn't necessarily going to work. I would also expect that doing 8/10K miles a year is going to somewhat increase depreciation and maintenance, offsetting some of those gains.
This is (or perhaps was) once a site for car enthusiasts, who might appreciate knowing how far their budget can go.
But look, I appreciate the sentiment in what you are trying to say that costs for exotica can be lower than some people realise - but ultimately we are trying to compare at tool and a toy.
SWoll said:
biggbn said:
What does WBAC price have to do with anything? Is that the metric you're gonna use for used value?
It's the easiest and most accurate way to measure what a car is worth worth should you need to dispose of it quickly and with reduced hassle? MightyBadger said:
Using WBAC as vehicle evaluations 
What would you use out of interest? What a car is advertised for on Autotrader only tells you what people are asking for, not what it's actually worth. It could sit there for months + eventually sell for considerably less than the advertised price?
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 8th May 12:19
FamousPheasant said:
SWoll said:
biggbn said:
What does WBAC price have to do with anything? Is that the metric you're gonna use for used value?
It's the easiest and most accurate way to measure what a car is worth worth should you need to dispose of it quickly and with reduced hassle? Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 8th May 17:55
Lil_Red_GTV said:
biggbn said:
What does WBAC price have to do with anything? Is that the metric you're gonna use for used value?
I used WBAC as rough, easily accessible measure of trade in value. The point being that for many people buying a 3/4 year old car, perhaps approved used, they will trade it in, so the depreciation cost is the difference between the retail price paid and the trade-in (or WBAC) price a few years later. My impression is that the gap between trade prices and retail prices has increased in recent years.I get the "WBAC is not the whole market" line, but my understanding is that dealer's trade offers are likely to be in the same ballpark and there are endless posts elsewhere on PH about how selling a car privately, particularly above £10k can be challenging.
Sub-£5k, I would agree that WBAC is largely irrelevant as the offer will be silly and you really ought to sell privately.
Om said:
What in god's name are people buying if they think a car ouside warranty is a ticking time bomb or a car over 10 years old WILL throw up large bills? There are loads of cars around at 5-10+ years that are perfectly reliable. Smaller, simpler cars all the more so.
The UK average mileage is about 7.5k a year so at 10 years old the average car will have 75k miles. Hardly knackered mechanically and in reality corrosion isn't likely to be much of an issue at that age/mileage. The average lifespan of a car is about 15 years old so your 10 year old car will have 3-5 years of useable life left in it. Average length of ownership is about 4 years so that would suggest you can expect it to survive until many people will be looking to offload.
If safety is your argument then the statistics suggest road casualty KSI figures have been fairly flat from about 2010 onward so unless you are looking at something appreciably older than 12-15 years you are gaining a minor advantage.
This unreliability in 'older' cars just does not happen - at least on any scale. The suggestion that older cars are unreliable and can throw up big bills is just a variation on the man-math argument for getting the latest shiny (or something larger/with a German badge). I suspect what people need differs hugely from what people want and 'affordable' means of getting into newer cars facilitates this.
As always the cheapest way to own a car is to keep it for a long time - ideally to just before it expires.
Very good post.The UK average mileage is about 7.5k a year so at 10 years old the average car will have 75k miles. Hardly knackered mechanically and in reality corrosion isn't likely to be much of an issue at that age/mileage. The average lifespan of a car is about 15 years old so your 10 year old car will have 3-5 years of useable life left in it. Average length of ownership is about 4 years so that would suggest you can expect it to survive until many people will be looking to offload.
If safety is your argument then the statistics suggest road casualty KSI figures have been fairly flat from about 2010 onward so unless you are looking at something appreciably older than 12-15 years you are gaining a minor advantage.
This unreliability in 'older' cars just does not happen - at least on any scale. The suggestion that older cars are unreliable and can throw up big bills is just a variation on the man-math argument for getting the latest shiny (or something larger/with a German badge). I suspect what people need differs hugely from what people want and 'affordable' means of getting into newer cars facilitates this.
As always the cheapest way to own a car is to keep it for a long time - ideally to just before it expires.
And very true IMO and from my experience.
I've been driving second hand cars 27 years and never had one throw an excessive bill.
I did buy new once, kept it 6 years and put 70k miles on it and that was perfectly good when sold on too.
Current daily is 9 years old with 77k, feels and drives extremely tightly and has yet (touch wood) caused me no major issues at all. Zero tax, 60 mpg too.
biggbn said:
SWoll said:
biggbn said:
What does WBAC price have to do with anything? Is that the metric you're gonna use for used value?
It's the easiest and most accurate way to measure what a car is worth worth should you need to dispose of it quickly and with reduced hassle? MightyBadger said:
Using WBAC as vehicle evaluations
What would you use out of interest? What a car is advertised for on Autotrader only tells you what people are asking for, not what it's actually worth. It could sit there for months + eventually sell for considerably less than the advertised price?
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 8th May 12:19
Looking to possibly off a car i have soon and can't be arsed with tyre kickers but with there been so many of these places like WBAC who's the best of the bunch?
biggbn said:
WBAC is the absolute rock bottom you could ever get for a car. We don't value houses etc like that, why cars? It's sadly indicative of the 'must have, must have quickly' culture wr appear to inhabit these days. Their price is not indicative of trade or private prices and whilst I do agree it would not he the work of moments to work out a trade and private average price for sold cars, that would be much a more accurate representation of a cars real 'value'.
Houses are actually valued in a very similar way. Estate agents research recently sold properties as similar as possible in the area then add a bit based on time difference. WBAC use their own record of recent prices for a model/spec sold via their auctions. The main difference is that cars depreciate while houses (usually) appreciate. So ones a race to the top while the other is a race to the bottom. The method of valuation is almost identical.I sold a car to WBAC ones, I think it was nearly more than a grand of my asking price. It has waited on AT and PH for sale for over a month, only a few usual tyre kickers, than I have it to WBAC. Mind you it was a 986, so anyone who Google's them just scared and run away 
Cazoo was similar just after pandemic? They were collecting cars no hassle and issue, peace of mind.
Cazoo was similar just after pandemic? They were collecting cars no hassle and issue, peace of mind.
nunpuncher said:
biggbn said:
WBAC is the absolute rock bottom you could ever get for a car. We don't value houses etc like that, why cars? It's sadly indicative of the 'must have, must have quickly' culture wr appear to inhabit these days. Their price is not indicative of trade or private prices and whilst I do agree it would not he the work of moments to work out a trade and private average price for sold cars, that would be much a more accurate representation of a cars real 'value'.
Houses are actually valued in a very similar way. Estate agents research recently sold properties as similar as possible in the area then add a bit based on time difference. WBAC use their own record of recent prices for a model/spec sold via their auctions. The main difference is that cars depreciate while houses (usually) appreciate. So ones a race to the top while the other is a race to the bottom. The method of valuation is almost identical.This week I put my car details into WBAC as well as a few dealer part ex online quotes against cars I might be interested in. WBAC was the best price by quite some margin. Its actually only a few hundred quid less than I'd expect to get as a private sale. But if do sell privately I'd really need to get it serviced and MOTd as they're due next month.
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