BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?
Discussion
HM-2 said:
The N55 does feel a bit more eager up to the redline, but driving a 135i and a 140i back to back and you'd think the 40 had significantly more than ~20bhp more. I don't know how much of that additional "eagerness" is a product of it being a bit less muscular everywhere else.
Thank you 
, I'm glad you've been able to drive the both and give me some decent feedback. I'm guessing it's because the M135 has 335(ish) lbs/ft and an M140i has around the 370 lbs/ft of torque so that may be why you feel the M140i is slightly faster. Do you happen to know what an M135i would produce torque wise on a stage 1 and stage 2 map? Thanks 
Dylanaledhall said:
HM-2 said:
The N55 does feel a bit more eager up to the redline, but driving a 135i and a 140i back to back and you'd think the 40 had significantly more than ~20bhp more. I don't know how much of that additional "eagerness" is a product of it being a bit less muscular everywhere else.
Thank you , I'm glad you've been able to drive the both and give me some decent feedback. I'm guessing it's because the M135 has 335(ish) lbs/ft and an M140i has around the 370 lbs/ft of torque so that may be why you feel the M140i is slightly faster. Do you happen to know what an M135i would produce torque wise on a stage 1 and stage 2 map? Thanks To be honest I dont feel the need to go much over 400hp/400ft lbs in mine i feel thats plenty for the chassis, tyres and brakes
Dylanaledhall said:
liner33 said:
M140 is cheaper to tune and gives you larger gains so the better choice if you really want to push the envelope
If you are happy with around 430hp a late model m135 will suffice
That's what I'm thinking, I know the N55 isn't as good of an engine ( in my opinion) as the B58 but I don't think I will personally feel a great load of difference between 430bhp and 450bhp (providing this is what both the N55 vs B58 can produce on a stage 2). If you are happy with around 430hp a late model m135 will suffice
I think if I was looking at doing some serious tuning I think I'd rather it be through the chassis of an M3 or an M4 just because it's decently set up from factory as we are all aware. If they come down to the 20k mark I think I could get into one quite soon after having an M135i if I kept the M135i for 2 or 3 years. An M140i is a bit more expensive than an M135i so may stall me a bit because I imagine M140i's keeping their value for a while. I foresee M135i's possibly going down in price because surely everyone would prefer M140's? So that's my predicament at the moment, would I notice a massive difference and is it worth it if I'd be planning on moving onto an M3/M4 in future anyway?
If I recall something went catastrophically wrong and he melted a piston or something, big time boom! First blown B58 I'd heard of from my babybmw days. Spent £6k or so on a whole new engine and had to start the tuning all over again. All in he spent nearly £10k more on his second hand car than I did on mine which I bought brand new :S
liner33 said:
Stage 1 for the EWG n55 is about 380hp and 400ft lbs , stage 2+ is about 430hp and 450ft lbs, bit less for the earlier pwg cars , bearing in mind different dynos/different days/different mapping
To be honest I dont feel the need to go much over 400hp/400ft lbs in mine i feel thats plenty for the chassis, tyres and brakes
100% agree, people in the car community tend to agree that 400-450bhp is plenty for the road. Anything more and you won't really get to use it unless you want to say good bye to your licence. Yes, you can be lucky and not get caught for years but one day that luck will run out. To be honest I dont feel the need to go much over 400hp/400ft lbs in mine i feel thats plenty for the chassis, tyres and brakes
QuattroDave said:
My neighbour liked my M140i so much he bought one himself and spent a load of money on carbon parts, catless (silly imo and sounded proper chavvy with centre silence delete also) and stage 2 tune. His was up around the 430-450 region and was a good deal quicker than mine but his being 6speed versus my 8AT didn't feel the whole 100bhp more.
If I recall something went catastrophically wrong and he melted a piston or something, big time boom! First blown B58 I'd heard of from my babybmw days. Spent £6k or so on a whole new engine and had to start the tuning all over again. All in he spent nearly £10k more on his second hand car than I did on mine which I bought brand new :S
That's a lot of money to go up in smoke If I recall something went catastrophically wrong and he melted a piston or something, big time boom! First blown B58 I'd heard of from my babybmw days. Spent £6k or so on a whole new engine and had to start the tuning all over again. All in he spent nearly £10k more on his second hand car than I did on mine which I bought brand new :S
I think we will see the odd failure here and there but the B58 should be absolutely fine if left standard. I watched a video recently and they got a fully built B58 to over 1000bhp which was quite an interesting video. I do want to make it plain that I don't think 1000bhp would be useable day-to-day, especially through just the rear wheels Dylanaledhall said:
QuattroDave said:
My neighbour liked my M140i so much he bought one himself and spent a load of money on carbon parts, catless (silly imo and sounded proper chavvy with centre silence delete also) and stage 2 tune. His was up around the 430-450 region and was a good deal quicker than mine but his being 6speed versus my 8AT didn't feel the whole 100bhp more.
If I recall something went catastrophically wrong and he melted a piston or something, big time boom! First blown B58 I'd heard of from my babybmw days. Spent £6k or so on a whole new engine and had to start the tuning all over again. All in he spent nearly £10k more on his second hand car than I did on mine which I bought brand new :S
That's a lot of money to go up in smoke If I recall something went catastrophically wrong and he melted a piston or something, big time boom! First blown B58 I'd heard of from my babybmw days. Spent £6k or so on a whole new engine and had to start the tuning all over again. All in he spent nearly £10k more on his second hand car than I did on mine which I bought brand new :S
I think we will see the odd failure here and there but the B58 should be absolutely fine if left standard. I watched a video recently and they got a fully built B58 to over 1000bhp which was quite an interesting video. I do want to make it plain that I don't think 1000bhp would be useable day-to-day, especially through just the rear wheels I suspect it was a case of my neighbour (their son actually)_being young with high disposable income and possibly a little too reckless with the mods and how he drove!
Dylanaledhall said:
liner33 said:
Stage 1 for the EWG n55 is about 380hp and 400ft lbs , stage 2+ is about 430hp and 450ft lbs, bit less for the earlier pwg cars , bearing in mind different dynos/different days/different mapping
To be honest I dont feel the need to go much over 400hp/400ft lbs in mine i feel thats plenty for the chassis, tyres and brakes
100% agree, people in the car community tend to agree that 400-450bhp is plenty for the road. Anything more and you won't really get to use it unless you want to say good bye to your licence. Yes, you can be lucky and not get caught for years but one day that luck will run out. To be honest I dont feel the need to go much over 400hp/400ft lbs in mine i feel thats plenty for the chassis, tyres and brakes
The car before this was a 600hp Jaguar and before that a 500hp 370z you certainly need to pick your time and place but thats the same for most stuff as modern cars are so quick now
QuattroDave said:
Yes the B58 is pretty good all round and can take some silly numbers (though I'd imagine the 1,000bhp one was fully forged parts!), as I said it was the first blown B58 I'd heard of!
I suspect it was a case of my neighbour (their son actually)_being young with high disposable income and possibly a little too reckless with the mods and how he drove!
Yes the 1,000 bhp engine was fully forged but was an absolute beast. Yeah if treated properly it will last. I suspect it was a case of my neighbour (their son actually)_being young with high disposable income and possibly a little too reckless with the mods and how he drove!
liner33 said:
Its not just that its also that the car seems to run smoother and deliver the power better at 400hp than 430hp, I have the jb4 which may account for that and perhaps a proper map will be smoother but i'm happy with where it is now especially with stock tyres
The car before this was a 600hp Jaguar and before that a 500hp 370z you certainly need to pick your time and place but thats the same for most stuff as modern cars are so quick now
You find it smoother? That's interesting. Yeah some cars are stupidly capable now. RS3s and A45s with 400bhp and they're just classed as 'hot hatches'. Hot hatches when I was born were around 200bhp ( EP3 Type R) and that was considered a silly amount of power for a small hot hatch at the time. I bet by 2025 we'll have hot hatches being sold with 450-500bhp. Especially when you consider how much power an RS3 can make with a simple map. The car before this was a 600hp Jaguar and before that a 500hp 370z you certainly need to pick your time and place but thats the same for most stuff as modern cars are so quick now
While I'm here has anyone else driven an A45 (around the 2013-2015 model year car)? I know I said my Dad drove one and didn't like it but I don't want that to put me off because our opinions could be completely different. Just wanted to know if it's worth me getting a test drive in one or not. Definitely want to test drive an M140i and a Golf R, A45's tend to be a bit more expensive but I wanted to see if anyone on here thinks they're worth it or not. Thanks
I think as we get older and get experience, we know what we like more and generally cant be arsed with anything that's a pain in the arse.
This is why perhaps older men tend to gravitate to barges, but also can be just down to lifelong preference, depends on your dads "Previous" and how old he is, is he "Young at heart", I am largely a 50 year old teenager mentally, hence why I am happy driving round in a Dogs Dick red boy racer car.
Which, if you have a dog that doesn't like harsh cornering or acceleration means you can get 46 to the gallon from the ST.
You need to try it yourself, but the problem is people aren't keen on letting you charge about in their performance car just to form an opinion, only ever as a necessary evil in the hope of securing a sale.
Its very easy to live things vicariously as well, via forums, example for me was a mate who liked mountain bikes, but didn't actually cycle much, through reading forums he decided he needed to convert his bike to single speed, which he did and couldnt get it up hills any more. This is because he wasnt fit and had read posts by very fit, experienced mountain bikers who had done years of riding and had got jaded with geared bikes and wanted a new challenge so converted to single speed.
You cant really circumvent the process, just take some advice on board to avoid any big pitfalls but you have to live it yourself really.
This is why perhaps older men tend to gravitate to barges, but also can be just down to lifelong preference, depends on your dads "Previous" and how old he is, is he "Young at heart", I am largely a 50 year old teenager mentally, hence why I am happy driving round in a Dogs Dick red boy racer car.
Which, if you have a dog that doesn't like harsh cornering or acceleration means you can get 46 to the gallon from the ST.
You need to try it yourself, but the problem is people aren't keen on letting you charge about in their performance car just to form an opinion, only ever as a necessary evil in the hope of securing a sale.
Its very easy to live things vicariously as well, via forums, example for me was a mate who liked mountain bikes, but didn't actually cycle much, through reading forums he decided he needed to convert his bike to single speed, which he did and couldnt get it up hills any more. This is because he wasnt fit and had read posts by very fit, experienced mountain bikers who had done years of riding and had got jaded with geared bikes and wanted a new challenge so converted to single speed.
You cant really circumvent the process, just take some advice on board to avoid any big pitfalls but you have to live it yourself really.
J4CKO said:
I think as we get older and get experience, we know what we like more and generally cant be arsed with anything that's a pain in the arse.
This is why perhaps older men tend to gravitate to barges, but also can be just down to lifelong preference, depends on your dads "Previous" and how old he is, is he "Young at heart", I am largely a 50 year old teenager mentally, hence why I am happy driving round in a Dogs Dick red boy racer car.
Which, if you have a dog that doesn't like harsh cornering or acceleration means you can get 46 to the gallon from the ST.
You need to try it yourself, but the problem is people aren't keen on letting you charge about in their performance car just to form an opinion, only ever as a necessary evil in the hope of securing a sale.
Its very easy to live things vicariously as well, via forums, example for me was a mate who liked mountain bikes, but didn't actually cycle much, through reading forums he decided he needed to convert his bike to single speed, which he did and couldnt get it up hills any more. This is because he wasnt fit and had read posts by very fit, experienced mountain bikers who had done years of riding and had got jaded with geared bikes and wanted a new challenge so converted to single speed.
You cant really circumvent the process, just take some advice on board to avoid any big pitfalls but you have to live it yourself really.
Yeah 100%. Normally this would be a M140 vs Golf R but the A45 is so highly spoken of I wondered if anyone here has one or has moved from an A45 to either an M140i or Golf R (or Vice versa). I think as long as I can prove I have the funds I don't see why Mercedes or another dealership wouldn't let me test drive a used example. For some reason, I see getting someone to trust me driving an M140i a bit more of a challenge. I live near a massive Mercedes dealership and they do often have A45s there so might be worth a look. I just don't want to write it off from what others have said, I'd like to see if it is genuinely good or not This is why perhaps older men tend to gravitate to barges, but also can be just down to lifelong preference, depends on your dads "Previous" and how old he is, is he "Young at heart", I am largely a 50 year old teenager mentally, hence why I am happy driving round in a Dogs Dick red boy racer car.
Which, if you have a dog that doesn't like harsh cornering or acceleration means you can get 46 to the gallon from the ST.
You need to try it yourself, but the problem is people aren't keen on letting you charge about in their performance car just to form an opinion, only ever as a necessary evil in the hope of securing a sale.
Its very easy to live things vicariously as well, via forums, example for me was a mate who liked mountain bikes, but didn't actually cycle much, through reading forums he decided he needed to convert his bike to single speed, which he did and couldnt get it up hills any more. This is because he wasnt fit and had read posts by very fit, experienced mountain bikers who had done years of riding and had got jaded with geared bikes and wanted a new challenge so converted to single speed.
You cant really circumvent the process, just take some advice on board to avoid any big pitfalls but you have to live it yourself really.
I mean, could feel crap compared to my ST after I've finished with it but I'll need to try it to see Dylanaledhall said:
While I'm here has anyone else driven an A45 (around the 2013-2015 model year car)? I know I said my Dad drove one and didn't like it but I don't want that to put me off because our opinions could be completely different. Just wanted to know if it's worth me getting a test drive in one or not. Definitely want to test drive an M140i and a Golf R, A45's tend to be a bit more expensive but I wanted to see if anyone on here thinks they're worth it or not. Thanks
Yes.Well, 2016 A45, ran it three years, then a 2019 M140i, running it 2 years so far.
Very quick but manic. You could be driving along in 8th gear at 60 and pull out to casually pass someone and it will drop 3 or 4 cogs and be away up the road like a stabbed rat. Great when you're in the mood but can get draining as a daily driver.
"Comfort" mode is hopeless as the car is off the turbo when you pull out of junctions so you will have near death experiences. So you end up driving everywhere in Sport or Sport+.
Also, early cars (facelift cars to a later extent) are prone to gearbox problems which necessitates a replacement gearbox. A lot have been remapped also which could impact longevity of the gearbox further. Also theres quite a few have had the mileages reworked (theres some device you can install on them that means the miles increments much more slowly) so thats a problem.
If you take a test drive you'll likely find it hilarious and a hoot to drive, but harder to live with as a daily (and out of manufacturers warranty). IMHO.
Deep Thought said:
Yes.
Well, 2016 A45, ran it three years, then a 2019 M140i, running it 2 years so far.
Very quick but manic. You could be driving along in 8th gear at 60 and pull out to casually pass someone and it will drop 3 or 4 cogs and be away up the road like a stabbed rat. Great when you're in the mood but can get draining as a daily driver.
"Comfort" mode is hopeless as the car is off the turbo when you pull out of junctions so you will have near death experiences. So you end up driving everywhere in Sport or Sport+.
Also, early cars (facelift cars to a later extent) are prone to gearbox problems which necessitates a replacement gearbox. A lot have been remapped also which could impact longevity of the gearbox further. Also theres quite a few have had the mileages reworked (theres some device you can install on them that means the miles increments much more slowly) so thats a problem.
If you take a test drive you'll likely find it hilarious and a hoot to drive, but harder to live with as a daily (and out of manufacturers warranty). IMHO.
Massively useful thank you Well, 2016 A45, ran it three years, then a 2019 M140i, running it 2 years so far.
Very quick but manic. You could be driving along in 8th gear at 60 and pull out to casually pass someone and it will drop 3 or 4 cogs and be away up the road like a stabbed rat. Great when you're in the mood but can get draining as a daily driver.
"Comfort" mode is hopeless as the car is off the turbo when you pull out of junctions so you will have near death experiences. So you end up driving everywhere in Sport or Sport+.
Also, early cars (facelift cars to a later extent) are prone to gearbox problems which necessitates a replacement gearbox. A lot have been remapped also which could impact longevity of the gearbox further. Also theres quite a few have had the mileages reworked (theres some device you can install on them that means the miles increments much more slowly) so thats a problem.
If you take a test drive you'll likely find it hilarious and a hoot to drive, but harder to live with as a daily (and out of manufacturers warranty). IMHO.
which one do you think you prefer now you've had both A45 and M140? I know they're massively different cars and both excel in different areas. I'm just interested if you think it has been a step forward or backwards going from an A45 to M140i. No disrespect to either cars ( at the end of the day I'm considering either) just want to know if one is definitely better than the other overall Dylanaledhall said:
Massively useful thank you which one do you think you prefer now you've had both A45 and M140? I know they're massively different cars and both excel in different areas. I'm just interested if you think it has been a step forward or backwards going from an A45 to M140i. No disrespect to either cars ( at the end of the day I'm considering either) just want to know if one is definitely better than the other overall
As a daily driver the M140i is the better car. Pretty much as quick in a straight line, though the A45 is quicker on the back roads. The M140i is more engaging and much easier to bond with. The A45 is a technical masterpiece but there isnt really a lot of driver involvement. which one do you think you prefer now you've had both A45 and M140? I know they're massively different cars and both excel in different areas. I'm just interested if you think it has been a step forward or backwards going from an A45 to M140i. No disrespect to either cars ( at the end of the day I'm considering either) just want to know if one is definitely better than the other overall Running costs. A45 - Front tyres every 9,000 miles @ around £200 a tyre. Rear tyres every 18,000 miles or so @ £200 a tyre, so depending on mileage, 1 year you'll be spending £400 on tyres, the next, £800. Servicing - IIRC it was between £400 and £600 a service (we'd a service plan). Service interval 9K miles. Maintenance wise - flawless. No issues at all - BUT running it out of warranty would have made me very jumpy (gearbox longevity concerns).
M140i - Just changed the rears @ 16,000. £150 a tyre (MPS4s). Fronts will be fine until £20K by the looks of it. Service interval 18-20K / 2 years (though we are doing an interim oil and filter change on ours too). Service - think first service will be maybe £300. No issues other than boot trim rattle.
Fuel. Probably similar consumption at around 27MPG +/- 1MPG on average. Long, steady runs maybe 35mpg on them both. A45 - we ran it on superunleaded. M140i is happy on 95RON.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 5th February 10:27
Deep Thought said:
As a daily driver the M140i is the better car. Pretty much as quick in a straight line, though the A45 is quicker on the back roads. The M140i is more engaging and much easier to bond with. The A45 is a technical masterpiece but there isnt really a lot of driver involvement.
Running costs. A45 - Front tyres every 9,000 miles @ around £200 a tyre. Rear tyres every 18,000 miles or so @ £200 a tyre, so depending on mileage, 1 year you'll be spending £400 on tyres, the next, £800. Servicing - IIRC it was between £400 and £600 a service (we'd a service plan). Service interval 9K miles. Maintenance wise - flawless. No issues at all - BUT running it out of warranty would have made me very jumpy (gearbox longevity concerns).
M140i - Just changed the rears @ 16,000. £150 a tyre (MPS4s). Fronts will be fine until £20K by the looks of it. Service interval 18-20K / 2 years (though we are doing an interim oil and filter change on ours too). Service - think first service will be maybe £300. No issues other than boot trim rattle.
Fuel. Probably similar consumption at around 27MPG +/- 1MPG on average. Long, steady runs maybe 35mpg on them both. A45 - we ran it on superunleaded. M140i is happy on 95RON.
Awesome, thank you Running costs. A45 - Front tyres every 9,000 miles @ around £200 a tyre. Rear tyres every 18,000 miles or so @ £200 a tyre, so depending on mileage, 1 year you'll be spending £400 on tyres, the next, £800. Servicing - IIRC it was between £400 and £600 a service (we'd a service plan). Service interval 9K miles. Maintenance wise - flawless. No issues at all - BUT running it out of warranty would have made me very jumpy (gearbox longevity concerns).
M140i - Just changed the rears @ 16,000. £150 a tyre (MPS4s). Fronts will be fine until £20K by the looks of it. Service interval 18-20K / 2 years (though we are doing an interim oil and filter change on ours too). Service - think first service will be maybe £300. No issues other than boot trim rattle.
Fuel. Probably similar consumption at around 27MPG +/- 1MPG on average. Long, steady runs maybe 35mpg on them both. A45 - we ran it on superunleaded. M140i is happy on 95RON.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 5th February 10:27
Worth noting WRT front tyres, the F2x is very tracking sensitive. I wore my fronts down to the canvas on the outer edges whilst still having about 4-5mm of meat in the middle. Since having a proper alignment, no issues. You can blow through rears pretty quickly if you try too!
I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
HM-2 said:
Worth noting WRT front tyres, the F2x is very tracking sensitive. I wore my fronts down to the canvas on the outer edges whilst still having about 4-5mm of meat in the middle. Since having a proper alignment, no issues. You can blow through rears pretty quickly if you try too!
I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
That's interesting because everyone speaks highly of the MPSS, but the Eagle's sound good from your feedback I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
Dylanaledhall said:
HM-2 said:
Worth noting WRT front tyres, the F2x is very tracking sensitive. I wore my fronts down to the canvas on the outer edges whilst still having about 4-5mm of meat in the middle. Since having a proper alignment, no issues. You can blow through rears pretty quickly if you try too!
I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
That's interesting because everyone speaks highly of the MPSS, but the Eagle's sound good from your feedback I swapped the MPSS for Eagle Asymmetric 5s which are 99% as good in the dry, twice as good in the wet and cold, and make it a bit keener on the turn-in due to a stiffer sidewall.
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