Has my approved Rolls Royce been “clocked”? Please help
Discussion
I bought it remotely during lockdown, it was lorded as being a provenance car and I had no reason to think it would be anything other than as described (please read their statement) I paid in advance and collected the first day showrooms were open, it was covered in a black silk cover and I was blown away with the occasion, I’m not used to buying used cars which is why the rolls Royce approved appealed, it was more expensive than other cars being sold independently, but I felt safe with their statement after all its “Rolls Royce” the seat wear had been repaired and I didn’t notice it, I did call the dealer when I noticed the repairs but still didn’t click until it was pointed out to me the dash had been out and the parts that were coming off were probably as a result of that, I got no history with the car as it is on the car itself when I later asked about it and the dash etc... was when I got the silent treatment, that’s when I got the engineers report and from that I’m now trying to find out what’s gone on........................
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Julian Thompson said:
Speaking technically again, having being thinking about this, there will very likely be evidence of the mileage blocker behind the clocks. Most installers are pretty clumsy when it comes to integrating with oem wiring - if that’s been tampered with I bet it’ll be obvious - cables exposed, insulation pulled back, insulation tape or heatshrink (at best) on some of the cables - that kind of thing.
If you’re going to get someone to remove the clocks to have a look video it, obviously. I can’t help on how the clocks come out of that as I’ve never worked on one but it won’t be rocket science.
Have a careful look at all the panels surrounding the speedometer and the top of the steering cowling. Again it’s really easy to mark things and most people aren’t careful enough..
There is damage in those areas, and the trims which later came off had been bashed home without being in the correct position which is why they came loose If you’re going to get someone to remove the clocks to have a look video it, obviously. I can’t help on how the clocks come out of that as I’ve never worked on one but it won’t be rocket science.
Have a careful look at all the panels surrounding the speedometer and the top of the steering cowling. Again it’s really easy to mark things and most people aren’t careful enough..
On very good advice I have requested from Rolls Royce an ECU disclosure pack and the mileage history of the car. If there is nothing to hide there shouldn’t be an issue providing this information, apparently as said by other PHrs on this thread whilst a blocker can stop mileage information to the ECU the bmw system and RR have access to a lot of other information on the cars history, engine running time, lights on and off, fuel top ups etc........ I believe the data is sent to Germany and then decoded and sent back (I could be wrong on this process) in any case it’s a lot more than would be seen by plugging car in to e-sys or ista by a dealership. Also apparently when the car passes a dealership it “pings” their computer with data, so for example if the car pings the dealer on consecutive days and the mileage is the same then bingo!!!!! However I’m not sure if that info is available? Privacy laws/ unauthorised tracking etc..... Whilst on its own it may be explainable, car running time/chauffeur waiting with engine running etc..... combined with the other damage, faults and report along with potential previous owner history a balance of probability view may be swaying in my favour, but still to early to be sure so let’s hope that the pack is made available, it may either put my mind at rest that it’s not clocked just mistreated or it’s more likely to be clocked and may help legal proceedings. On another positive note RR have acknowledged that the CEO has read the letter I sent him (again oh PHrs advice) and dialogue although limited has now started with the dealer. I will keep you all posted of progress and a massive thanks because with all the help From everyone it looks like progress is being made!!!!
Mikebentley said:
There is a cursory lesson here. I genuinely wish OP all the best but we all need to be extra careful when buying relatively new cars. I’m often flabbergasted at the photos of cars for sale that have very obviously been painted “fifty shades” yet the seller claims never had an accident.
If it can happen at this price point when the potential loss is so huge to what should be a professional dealership and then the OP it really does put me off buying used.
Good luck OP
Yes totally agree massive wake up call, tbh if the ECU data is available then perhaps a change in the law to make it easily accessible to “joe public” may help restrict the actions of these people who seem to act with impunity, And make dealers look inside ECU data as a matter of course when taking in or servicing cars, I’m not counting my chickens yet and unless RR put pressure on dealer to look after me then the battle will go on, regarding marching into the dealer and demanding to be looked after, they stand to lose a significant amount of money and on the phone certainly were not going to roll over infact the polar opposite. The repairs I’m sure they would happily sort out but you can’t roll back a service history, which will have a huge affect on my resale value, and also if It does turn out that the car has been clocked as well RR’s leading UK dealer will have committed a criminal offence If it can happen at this price point when the potential loss is so huge to what should be a professional dealership and then the OP it really does put me off buying used.
Good luck OP
I’m hoping these lads are going to help me, could be useful for anyone else in my predicament
https://digitpol.com/automotive-forensics/
https://digitpol.com/automotive-forensics/
Some very good news, CEO from RR and MD from Manchester have both got involved to offer me a replacement upgraded car!!!!! I can’t thank everyone on PistonHeads enough for your support and superb advice, it has been a steep learning curve and everyone’s input has been invaluable, to anyone else who finds themselves in this position, get an engineers report, research getting an ecu forensic expert to analyse the head unit as there can be stored data there that is not blocked. And then go straight to the CEO with a short precise email outlining what has happened and what you would like done. Avoid threatening and getting lawyers involved as this will just make the manufacturer clam up, in the end with the advice and help I received from here I have had a great outcome!!!! Thanks Again PHrs
Sorry for no reply’s, I’ve been away and the missus banned me from the iPad as I hadn’t been off it for weeks!!!!
Ok, I did not need to get the ecu interrogation in the end, as I understand it RR will look Into The whole saga and I have been assured It will be resolved, but my recourse ultimately is with the dealer and RR have been overseeing the case, I can’t say what action goes on from now but there have been far too many people involved for anything underhand to go on. If I had gone further and gone legal etc..... it could have been a long and expensive fight with perhaps lawyers the only winners, and I just want to move on tbh.
I will definitely post details and pictures of the new car once I have it !!!!
I have learned a valuable lesson although still feel I was right to believe the car would have been as it should have and ultimately dealer and RR agreed.
Once again I really do appreciate the help and support from everyone, and maybe if someone else has problems the lessons learnt here will help, I think the threat of forensic intervention will make sellers of suspect cars rethink their behaviour.
Ok, I did not need to get the ecu interrogation in the end, as I understand it RR will look Into The whole saga and I have been assured It will be resolved, but my recourse ultimately is with the dealer and RR have been overseeing the case, I can’t say what action goes on from now but there have been far too many people involved for anything underhand to go on. If I had gone further and gone legal etc..... it could have been a long and expensive fight with perhaps lawyers the only winners, and I just want to move on tbh.
I will definitely post details and pictures of the new car once I have it !!!!
I have learned a valuable lesson although still feel I was right to believe the car would have been as it should have and ultimately dealer and RR agreed.
Once again I really do appreciate the help and support from everyone, and maybe if someone else has problems the lessons learnt here will help, I think the threat of forensic intervention will make sellers of suspect cars rethink their behaviour.
dmsims said:
They might want to rethink this:
"Only the premier pre-owned Rolls-Royce cars are awarded the Provenance title. Every Provenance Rolls-Royce has passed a round of uncompromising tests to earn the title and each one comes with proof of independent vehicle history and mileage."
Which was why I felt safe with the remote sale (I have learned my lesson now)"Only the premier pre-owned Rolls-Royce cars are awarded the Provenance title. Every Provenance Rolls-Royce has passed a round of uncompromising tests to earn the title and each one comes with proof of independent vehicle history and mileage."
dmsims said:
They might want to rethink this:
"Only the premier pre-owned Rolls-Royce cars are awarded the Provenance title. Every Provenance Rolls-Royce has passed a round of uncompromising tests to earn the title and each one comes with proof of independent vehicle history and mileage."
Which was why I felt safe with the remote sale (I have learned my lesson now)"Only the premier pre-owned Rolls-Royce cars are awarded the Provenance title. Every Provenance Rolls-Royce has passed a round of uncompromising tests to earn the title and each one comes with proof of independent vehicle history and mileage."
01WE01 said:
hotwheels23 said:
...as I understand it RR will look Into The whole saga and I have been assured It will be resolved, but my recourse ultimately is with the dealer and RR have been overseeing the case, I can’t say what action goes on from now but there have been far too many people involved for anything underhand to go on...
I sincerely hope that you are getting somewhere but the fact that there is no resolution yet means I would not be taking my foot off the pedal. I would continue to get the independent verification of mileage etc. and proceed as before unless you have: a) an admission of liability (unlikely), b) written commitment that this will be resolved with the buy back etc. and, c) clear timescales. I have had extremely similar with a similarish marque and, even after getting the same commiments from the UK board, and then the global one, no action happened for c. 6months and a lot more grumbling.
Not trying to s
t on the parade, but a mere word of caution until the chicken has hatched. selym said:
hotwheels23 said:
Once again fantastic advice, I’m hoping for more news tomorrow so will keep everyone informed and apply more pressure if required, I have had very good legal advice by pm from a fellow PHr who is a lawyer And am following his advice to get the best resolution.
Don't jeopardize your chances by giving up too much info on here.Well today Rolls Royce presented me with my new car, I’m ecstatic and they went above and beyond not only upgrading the car but also arranging a VIP handover at Goodwood, A massive thank you to everyone for your help, advice and support, hopefully some of the advice I have been given may help someone else in the future. 
dmsims said:
New car or used? Used but like new 4000 miles
Any apology? Yes
Was the dealer present?
yes and they took an active part in sourcing the car, I was offered a refund but wanted to stay within the brand, my complaints were not buyer remorse, and although it was a slog when the right people got involved things moved very quickly, on the good advice of PHrs who are a fantastic and supportive community (mostly, wheels Any apology? Yes
Was the dealer present?
) lol!!!
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