What should I get. Opinions Please.
Discussion
A full geo does camber toe and castor.
Assuming the car has adjustable bits, and isctrue of cheap and expensive geos.
But, a cheap geo might get the car to within 10% of the target, a more expensive one might get to within 2%.
Or something like that.
Also, better geos will test the slight buckles in the wheels and compensate for that, will adjust based on one driver, or a driver and passenger.
Like all/most things a better job will take more time and cost more money.
Assuming the car has adjustable bits, and isctrue of cheap and expensive geos.
But, a cheap geo might get the car to within 10% of the target, a more expensive one might get to within 2%.
Or something like that.
Also, better geos will test the slight buckles in the wheels and compensate for that, will adjust based on one driver, or a driver and passenger.
Like all/most things a better job will take more time and cost more money.
I think i'd go for the M3, purely because even good cars are relatively cheap, the issues are now known and you may find a car with them already addressed, and I fear the quality available will only go down and the prices up, meaning they may be harder to buy and run with a reasonable budget in future.
Herbs said:
Completely agree
My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire
)
Very easy to get a Z4M to understeer then snap into oversteer, IMO it naturally wants to understeer, you have to push it hard to do it, but it is a definite understeerer at lower speeds it's not a completely balanced car like others I've driven / owned.My 2nd Z4M is going tomorrow unfortunately and I can honestly neither of them understeered at any point. What one person likes another hates and the Z4M and S2000 are two of the prime examples.
There is no right or wrong - just your own opinion. (unless we are talking about a Chrysler Crossfire
)An entertaining ham fisted machine, the sum of its part don't really add up.
That engine though....
I can only comment on the below, as it's the only one I've owned from the list:
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
ECG1000 said:
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Don't let the 'snappy reputation' put you off - they're easy to drive. Just don't floor it out of a wet bend on cold tyres and you'll be fine. Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
ECG1000 said:
greygoose said:
I've done 32,000 miles in mine now and nothing has gone wrong at all and it never uses any oil.
That's good to hear!How have you found ownership? Are they an enjoyable car to use daily?
Riknos said:
I can only comment on the below, as it's the only one I've owned from the list:
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
Very well said, out of all of the cars I've owned the S2000 was my favourite, I regretted selling my first one so bought another and believe it or not even after track days neither killed me to death.ECG1000 said:
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Don't let the 'snappy reputation' put you off - they're easy to drive. Just don't floor it out of a wet bend on cold tyres and you'll be fine. Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
But yes I would now pick differently from that fairly random mix of cars.
However I would love another S2000.
Urban Sports said:
Riknos said:
I can only comment on the below, as it's the only one I've owned from the list:
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
Very well said, out of all of the cars I've owned the S2000 was my favourite, I regretted selling my first one so bought another and believe it or not even after track days neither killed me to death.ECG1000 said:
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Don't let the 'snappy reputation' put you off - they're easy to drive. Just don't floor it out of a wet bend on cold tyres and you'll be fine. Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
But yes I would now pick differently from that fairly random mix of cars.
However I would love another S2000.
But. I've sat there, scratching my head thinking WHAT do I replace it with? I can't think of anything. Anything I can think of will have potentially double or more running costs, the S2000 has been 100% spot on and costs buttons to run (apart from fuel - my only gripe) and is boringly reliable, that I know I will regret selling...
...Maybe I just need a dry summers day to re-ignite the spark. Or to give the thing a clean, as it looks soooo much better when clean.
Practicality in them is still pretty good. Over 3.5 metres of skirting board? No problem!
Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 27th November 23:51
Gaz. said:
I've had a S2000 as a daily driver for 2.5 years, loads of smiles per miles. It costs buttons to service & I'm happy with my £100 geometry. It's diminishing returns if you want to spend £400 on it, personally I'd rather crawl over broken glass.
I couldn't tell you the repair costs because I haven't had any (touch wood).
The steering takes some getting used to but when you are, it is acceptable yet still falls short of the rest of the car, by some margin. On the other hand it isn't like a VAG product which feel like there is no physical connection in the steering assembly.
Use common sense and check the oil level religiously and you will love it so much you may not sell it, I was only going to keep mine for a year...
My biggest gripe with the steering was that it doesn't adjust, apart from that I found that the superb gear box overshadowed the steerings inadequacies.I couldn't tell you the repair costs because I haven't had any (touch wood).
The steering takes some getting used to but when you are, it is acceptable yet still falls short of the rest of the car, by some margin. On the other hand it isn't like a VAG product which feel like there is no physical connection in the steering assembly.
Use common sense and check the oil level religiously and you will love it so much you may not sell it, I was only going to keep mine for a year...
Riknos said:
Urban Sports said:
Riknos said:
I can only comment on the below, as it's the only one I've owned from the list:
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
Very well said, out of all of the cars I've owned the S2000 was my favourite, I regretted selling my first one so bought another and believe it or not even after track days neither killed me to death.ECG1000 said:
Honda S2000. (2007 to 2009 AP2)
Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
Don't let the 'snappy reputation' put you off - they're easy to drive. Just don't floor it out of a wet bend on cold tyres and you'll be fine. Probably the smarter choice so far in terms of running costs and reliability. The thing that puts me off is their apparent snappyness on the limit. Is this actually the case if you have the correct tyres and a decent geometry set-up? I've had two VTEC Hondas before and learnt that you really do need an open road to enjoy them properly. Can be a bit frustrating sometimes. Also, they're not that easy to skid at low speeds due to lack of torque.
The sense of occasion with it being a convertible appeals to me however. Lets not forget how incredible they sound with a Gruppe M intake.
There are, however, a lot of interesting metal in your list, so I'm not going to say pick the S2000 over the others, but just wanted to say that you should remove this as a con from the s2000 pros and cons list
But yes I would now pick differently from that fairly random mix of cars.
However I would love another S2000.
But. I've sat there, scratching my head thinking WHAT do I replace it with? I can't think of anything. Anything I can think of will have potentially double or more running costs, the S2000 has been 100% spot on and costs buttons to run (apart from fuel - my only gripe) and is boringly reliable, that I know I will regret selling...
...Maybe I just need a dry summers day to re-ignite the spark. Or to give the thing a clean, as it looks soooo much better when clean.
Practicality in them is still pretty good. Over 3.5 metres of skirting board? No problem!
Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 27th November 23:51
Gaz. said:
Urban Sports said:
My biggest gripe with the steering was that it doesn't adjust, apart from that I found that the gear box overshadowed the steerings inadequacies.
I can imagine how that would annoy, it is perfect for me so I'm happy it's just one less thing for someone else to move. I honestly do not know what I'll replace it with. The only thing remotely on the radar is a Corvette and they are only increasing in value. A BoxsterS/911 cab appeals and I'm really unsure about a Z4M.
However the engine in the S2000 whilst absolutely amazing at what it could produce at the time is still nowhere near the masterpiece in the Z4M and M3.
I can't advise what to get without more information about what you like in a car, but I've driven a few off your list and here's my opinion:
E46 BMW M3 Coupe: Felt like a wolf in sheep's clothing. You got the sheep bit most of the time, but when you pushed you got the racier nature that's portrayed in magazine tests etc. It also suffered from a throttle lag that wound me up. Mega engine though and a really nice rear diff. I don't think you could go wrong, but it certainly wasn't up there with the best cars I've driven.
Nissan 370Z: I've not driven one of these, but I have tried a 350Z and thought it was good, but felt a bit heavy and blunt. Good handling, but weird throttle response and wooden steering. Again, you can't exactly go wrong, but I've driven better. That's the 350Z - the 370Z may be entirely different for all I know!
Honda S2000.[/b] I'm a huge Honda fan and also a fan of FE/RWD, so I expected to love this. I liked it in the way it drove and I loved the build quality. I wish you could sit in it rather than on it though, and it never seemed to key into the road (i.e. feel connected to the tarmac) like an MR2 or MX5. Good car though - another nice one to have on the shortlist. I almost bought one just for the engine and the gearchange. Did I mention it's the best gearchange I've ever tried in a road car? wow.
Toyota GT86. I've not driven one but they sound great to me.
BMW M135i. One of the few modern BMWs I haven't tried, though I did try it's Dad, the old 135i coupé. Expect to find the drivetrain a bit lumpy but the handling to be lovely and the engine strong with spooky economy. I haven't driven it, but I'd be surprised if I was far out with that guess.
BMW E90 M3. Quite a big heavy car, but virtually perfect in all regards as far as an everyday four seater 2 door saloon goes - extremely accomplished.
It's hard to recommend other cars without knowing your budget, but it seems like you're firmly into Cayman, Boxster and SLK55 AMG territory, all of which are extremely good. If you can live with things a bit raw, you won't get a better drive than a late model Exige S or Elise SC in this price bracket either.
If you don't need four seats and a big boot, then I'd be looking at a Cayman S, Elise SC or maybe a Z4M.
E46 BMW M3 Coupe: Felt like a wolf in sheep's clothing. You got the sheep bit most of the time, but when you pushed you got the racier nature that's portrayed in magazine tests etc. It also suffered from a throttle lag that wound me up. Mega engine though and a really nice rear diff. I don't think you could go wrong, but it certainly wasn't up there with the best cars I've driven.
Nissan 370Z: I've not driven one of these, but I have tried a 350Z and thought it was good, but felt a bit heavy and blunt. Good handling, but weird throttle response and wooden steering. Again, you can't exactly go wrong, but I've driven better. That's the 350Z - the 370Z may be entirely different for all I know!
Honda S2000.[/b] I'm a huge Honda fan and also a fan of FE/RWD, so I expected to love this. I liked it in the way it drove and I loved the build quality. I wish you could sit in it rather than on it though, and it never seemed to key into the road (i.e. feel connected to the tarmac) like an MR2 or MX5. Good car though - another nice one to have on the shortlist. I almost bought one just for the engine and the gearchange. Did I mention it's the best gearchange I've ever tried in a road car? wow.
Toyota GT86. I've not driven one but they sound great to me.
BMW M135i. One of the few modern BMWs I haven't tried, though I did try it's Dad, the old 135i coupé. Expect to find the drivetrain a bit lumpy but the handling to be lovely and the engine strong with spooky economy. I haven't driven it, but I'd be surprised if I was far out with that guess.
BMW E90 M3. Quite a big heavy car, but virtually perfect in all regards as far as an everyday four seater 2 door saloon goes - extremely accomplished.
It's hard to recommend other cars without knowing your budget, but it seems like you're firmly into Cayman, Boxster and SLK55 AMG territory, all of which are extremely good. If you can live with things a bit raw, you won't get a better drive than a late model Exige S or Elise SC in this price bracket either.
If you don't need four seats and a big boot, then I'd be looking at a Cayman S, Elise SC or maybe a Z4M.
Urban Sports said:
With regards to the M135i Rob there's no way I'd spec one without the 8 speed auto, no chance it'd be lumpy then 
I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
I've heard a couple of times recently that it's a good way to avoid the typically lumpy manual transmissions from recent BMWs... It's such a shame because the E36 and E30 had such a lovely gearchange and a nice clutch - BMW then fitted clutch delay valves to help the 10% of drivers who can't use a clutch properly and somehow made their gearchanges awful and obstructive at the same time. My wife borrowed my 3 series the other day and said the gearchange and clutch dominated the whole driving experience, which I can quite believe and it's such a shame for a car with such a good chassis (which goes for the 1 as well - I'm a big fan).I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
RobM77 said:
Urban Sports said:
With regards to the M135i Rob there's no way I'd spec one without the 8 speed auto, no chance it'd be lumpy then
I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
I've heard a couple of times recently that it's a good way to avoid the typically lumpy manual transmissions from recent BMWs... It's such a shame because the E36 and E30 had such a lovely gearchange and a nice clutch - BMW then fitted clutch delay valves to help the 10% of drivers who can't use a clutch properly and somehow made their gearchanges awful and obstructive at the same time. My wife borrowed my 3 series the other day and said the gearchange and clutch dominated the whole driving experience, which I can quite believe and it's such a shame for a car with such a good chassis (which goes for the 1 as well - I'm a big fan).I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
Never thought I'd say that as a manual lover!
Urban Sports said:
RobM77 said:
Urban Sports said:
With regards to the M135i Rob there's no way I'd spec one without the 8 speed auto, no chance it'd be lumpy then
I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
I've heard a couple of times recently that it's a good way to avoid the typically lumpy manual transmissions from recent BMWs... It's such a shame because the E36 and E30 had such a lovely gearchange and a nice clutch - BMW then fitted clutch delay valves to help the 10% of drivers who can't use a clutch properly and somehow made their gearchanges awful and obstructive at the same time. My wife borrowed my 3 series the other day and said the gearchange and clutch dominated the whole driving experience, which I can quite believe and it's such a shame for a car with such a good chassis (which goes for the 1 as well - I'm a big fan).I know it's been said before but that gearbox knocks spots off a manual BMW and I've only ever owned manuals, my next BMW 330d or M135i will be an auto.
Never thought I'd say that as a manual lover!
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