Big Estate vs Car and Van

[hkp57]

I run a van as daily driver and weekend workhorse.

Vito 2013 116 Dualiner, its has been remapped to 200bhp so it can show most of the rep mobiles a hard time, pulls my trailer effortless. Still with normal driving 36mpg

I find the upright seating more comfortable than cars, comes with all the toys, rear camera, satnav, abs, traction control, cruise control and AC.

Rear seat fold forward or fully removed in seconds. fits in a standard parking bay and into multi story parking low roof.

[hairyben]

hkp57 said:

I run a van as daily driver and weekend workhorse.

Vito 2013 116 Dualiner,

They're allright for 4 or 5 years, which is the typical lease period

After that they fall apart, given the OPs budget puts him in an older one I'd steer clear, the various grey import jap wagons are a good shout if the quirky styling doesnt put you off.

[RobM77]

SWoll said:

rayyan171 said:

An SUV would suit you no problem. You'd be surprised in the little difference in cost it is to run an X5 compared to a 520d tourer. Also consider a Q7 or GLS for maximum load space(2009 onwards for GLS and Q7 are a must). Range Rover is there too. X5 rides much better than a 520d tourer, some argue it handles better too. Once you drive an SUV, you find it hard to think of alternatives.

Really?

Smallest engine you'll get in an X5 for example is the 3.0D, which in a car weighing 2.2 tonnes willl see mid to high 20's MPG on average where the 520D will almost double that. An X5 will also be a lot harder on consumables such as brakes and tyres and be considerably older/leggy for the same purchase price so more prone to faults and big servicing bills.

The issue with BMW ride quality has always been the RFT's they insist on using. Buy a non M-Sport model and replace them with normal tyres and they ride and handle very well for such a big car.

You'll get no more in an X5 than a 5 Touring as well so would still need a towbar carrier/trailer to meet the OP's needs anyway.

The X5 and X3 have tidy handling considering what they are, but imho nowhere near as good as their car siblings the 5 and 3 series.

The trouble with an SUV is the roof bars are relatively inaccessible. This is prohibitive for me - not sure about the OP? Would the OP use the higher towing weight with just a motorbike?

Regarding RFTs, I've personally found that without them the suspension feels too soft overall, but I was trying a 205/55/16 size. I think most of the problems people have might come from the slimmer sidewall sizes. Also, regarding MSport, I'd advise against SE (non MSport) suspension on any of the newer BMWs, the handling really isn't very nice.

HTH

Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 5th August 11:10

[Muppet32]

I run around all the time in a 2016 Mercedes Vito. I think they're one of the best vans to drive: quick, quiet, civilised, economic etc. They also hold onto their money surprisingly well, especially if bought a few months old (demo model or similar)

I'd happily use it all the time, but apparently, according to my better half, turning up at weddings, posh restaurants etc in a van doesn't convey the impression she desires. Women...

[Gtom]

Have a look at a DCIV transit custom. If you go for the L2 you should get a motorbike in the back, someone I know does that with LWB vivaro.
If you go for a limited you get heated seats, cruise control, ac, Bluetooth, etc.

A 130 or 170ps can also be had as an auto too.

[Willy Nilly]

Gtom said:

Have a look at a DCIV transit custom. If you go for the L2 you should get a motorbike in the back, someone I know does that with LWB vivaro.
If you go for a limited you get heated seats, cruise control, ac, Bluetooth, etc.

A 130 or 170ps can also be had as an auto too.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The bigger Connects and smaller Transits would be great.Not that physically big, but loads of room and much easier to load than an SUV being lower. They're nice to drive, decent running costs and the cabs on them ooze practicality. You might be able to find one with 2 rows of seats too. You could even get a tow hitch for them if you still need to tow,

Oh, you've never get a motorbike in a Discovery in a million years.

[kingb]

Well i am glad there is plenty of debate about this. Means its not an obviously decision

We went to look at some stuff today - Golf / 3 series to go alongside a load lugger - 3 series wasnt too bad however to add a twist the wife has decided she likes the idea of a z4 and a van. Not going to be quite as nice on the motorway but much more fun when the suns out!!

Think thats gone well tbh!

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say the Elgrand suits your needs you can remove as many seats as you need dependent on what you're trying to fit in it at the time but it covers most bases well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/nissan-elgrand-e50-rider...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Elgrand-3-0-TDi-H...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-ELGRAND-E51-HIGHW...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Elgrand-E51-2002-...

Whilst looking at Z4's don't look past the SLK350 they're a decent steer not as sharp as a Boxster but a good car.

SLK350

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Boxster

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

[rayyan171]

SWoll said:

rayyan171 said:

An SUV would suit you no problem. You'd be surprised in the little difference in cost it is to run an X5 compared to a 520d tourer. Also consider a Q7 or GLS for maximum load space(2009 onwards for GLS and Q7 are a must). Range Rover is there too. X5 rides much better than a 520d tourer, some argue it handles better too. Once you drive an SUV, you find it hard to think of alternatives.

Really?

Smallest engine you'll get in an X5 for example is the 3.0D, which in a car weighing 2.2 tonnes willl see mid to high 20's MPG on average where the 520D will almost double that. An X5 will also be a lot harder on consumables such as brakes and tyres and be considerably older/leggy for the same purchase price so more prone to faults and big servicing bills.

The issue with BMW ride quality has always been the RFT's they insist on using. Buy a non M-Sport model and replace them with normal tyres and they ride and handle very well for such a big car.

You'll get no more in an X5 than a 5 Touring as well so would still need a towbar carrier/trailer to meet the OP's needs anyway.

I beg to differ.

The 520d has the 4 cylinder BMW unit which simply isn't really a long life engine. There are pictures of 'service bulletins' going around on the internet advising of timing chain replacements on 4 cylinder units, even after the issues of the N47. The 3.0d is a less fuel efficient car due to the sheer size of the car putting excess strain on the single turbo. The Garrett turbo wasn't too reliable either. The Borg-warner turbos used on the 3.0sd (twin turbo) were more reliable and more importantly, the extra turbo assists in moving the car and so there is much less strain on the turbos. Realtime figures of 23mpg city and 33mpg motorway are definitely possible. What eats the mpg is when you use the second turbo a lot (very high speed/heavy foot). Much more performance orientated than a 520d touring. This is PH after all. Consumables have been front discs and pads all around, including a seized calliper (fluid hadn't been changed in 5 years). Total of £500, which is not bad at all. The 20" tyres on the 520d are the same price as the X5.

RFT's really aren't bad either. Yes the ride is hard and occasionally crashy but they are impressive considering that they are rated at 186mph and XL load too. I'd say that the ride is more involving - you feel what each wheel is doing, and that's from every seat. Air suspension makes it much nicer too (7 seats only).

More options on the X5 too, load space may be a bit higher.

OP, they are a very good alternative and would fit all your needs in one car. It's in the name - Sport Utility Vehicle (Sports Activity Vehicle for the BMW geeks).

[RobM77]

I beg to differ on the name 'SUV'. I do a lot of outdoor sports and regard an SUV as hopelessly impractical. If you doubt that, go to your local surf spot or mountain bike area and count the SUVs.... Its impossible to get anything on the roof on a regular basis and the shape of the interior space is all wrong for getting bikes etc in. Something like an X3 or X5 is great for a mix of off road and road (I had one for two weeks on the road and did an off road afternoon in one), but for sports or anything practical? Nope.

[wsn03]

kingb said:

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd go down the two vehicle route as you'll be less compromised in your needs but I wouldn't get a Transit I'd get one of these type of vehicles as they really suit your (obviously you need to remove as many seats as you need) needs I'm starting to see a few of these at trackdays:

Nissan Elgrand

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-ELGRAND-3-5V6-8-S...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Elgrand-3-0-TDi-H...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Elgrand-/25307199...

Then you can still get a decent barge for your budget:

E280 Elegance

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

E320 Avantgarde

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

CLS350 Petrol

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

CLS320cdi

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

this is the sort of thing i was hoping to discover!

And me!! Seeing this has saved me buying a van

[hyphen]

RobM77 said:

I beg to differ on the name 'SUV'. I do a lot of outdoor sports and regard an SUV as hopelessly impractical. If you doubt that, go to your local surf spot or mountain bike area and count the SUVs.... Its impossible to get anything on the roof on a regular basis and the shape of the interior space is all wrong for getting bikes etc in. Something like an X3 or X5 is great for a mix of off road and road (I had one for two weeks on the road and did an off road afternoon in one), but for sports or anything practical? Nope.

That's what puzzled me too.

With the roof being higher, isn't it going to be a pain to put a bike and other stuff up onto a roof carrier. Also won't you have problems with the overall height. Can you get on the channel Tunnel for example with 3 bikes on an suv, if you do manage to heave 3 up there in the first place?

Also a lot of vans look a bit rough/taxi minivan so image isn't great unless you fork out for a California/retro camper. Some new build housing estates now have a no vans rules for their residents!

So that leaves the estate?

Edited by hyphen on Sunday 6th August 01:48

[hairyben]

kingb said:

Well i am glad there is plenty of debate about this. Means its not an obviously decision

We went to look at some stuff today - Golf / 3 series to go alongside a load lugger - 3 series wasnt too bad however to add a twist the wife has decided she likes the idea of a z4 and a van. Not going to be quite as nice on the motorway but much more fun when the suns out!!

Think thats gone well tbh!

Something like the ellgrande instead of a van will tick the comfortable motorway cruiser box leaving the z4 for fun.

[RobM77]

hyphen said:

RobM77 said:

I beg to differ on the name 'SUV'. I do a lot of outdoor sports and regard an SUV as hopelessly impractical. If you doubt that, go to your local surf spot or mountain bike area and count the SUVs.... Its impossible to get anything on the roof on a regular basis and the shape of the interior space is all wrong for getting bikes etc in. Something like an X3 or X5 is great for a mix of off road and road (I had one for two weeks on the road and did an off road afternoon in one), but for sports or anything practical? Nope.

That's what puzzled me too.

With the roof being higher, isn't it going to be a pain to put a bike and other stuff up onto a roof carrier. Also won't you have problems with the overall height. Can you get on the channel Tunnel for example with 3 bikes on an suv, if you do manage to heave 3 up there in the first place?

Also a lot of vans look a bit rough/taxi minivan so image isn't great unless you fork out for a California/retro camper. Some new build housing estates now have a no vans rules for their residents!

So that leaves the estate?

Edited by hyphen on Sunday 6th August 01:48

In the windsurfing world at least, most people either do what I do and use a car with a low roofline, or when they become serious they progress to a van which takes the kit inside. SUVs have too high a roof to use the roof bars, and the boot volume, whilst similar to an estate car, is upright and cuboid rather than long and shorter, and that length is needed for carrying stuff. Something like an X5 is in its forte when towing heavy weights and/or combining off road and on road capabilities, the term SUV is a bit of a misnomer.

As I said earlier, I tow my racing car and carry bikes and boards regularly and currently use a saloon car. My upgrade for managing those things more easily would be a 5 series estate, although in my case I need to measure that against my need for a good mpg and my love of driving, in particular manual gearboxes and upgraded suspension (Birds don't even do a kit for the 5 series). My upgrade beyond that would be a car and a van, but until the day I can afford a decent van for £10k+ and a decent car, I won't be doing that. Once I had the van I'd have to upgrade the 3 series to something nicer to drive to justify it, which again is more expense. Just my thoughts though.

[V8RX7]

RobM77 said:

SUVs have too high a roof to use the roof bars

As someone who regularly loads up a VW T4 roof - all you need is one of these:

https://goo.gl/images/XKO0mN

Around £20

[bassanclan]

What about a double cab pickup?
Amorak, Navara, Hi-lux etc?

[bassanclan]

What about a double cab pickup?
Amorak, Navara, Hi-lux etc?

[Chicken Chaser]

I've been a VW T5 camper owner for the last 4 years. It's rear conversion doesn't have a forward facing seat so it's 3 belts across the front only. It's poverty spec too, but in a way there is less to go wrong with it. As a daily driver the T5 is great and is a good distance tool as the position is comfortable. I've driven across France in it without issue.
I've been thinking of changing it for the last 6 months and have been preparing for buying an estate for the potential of towing a caravan however, I use the van to carry my bike which I can throw in the back. It's also good for picking up large loads, and this one is a full camper.
I'm coming to the conclusion that I should just buy another T5, slightly newer and higher specced with more seats (we may need another one). They are expensive, but they also hold their value so what you shell out, you generally get a good return. That for me makes it worthwhile over a similar Merc or Transit. Mine has been problem free too and have done more than 30k in the girl since getting her.

[RobM77]

V8RX7 said:

RobM77 said:

SUVs have too high a roof to use the roof bars

As someone who regularly loads up a VW T4 roof - all you need is one of these:

https://goo.gl/images/XKO0mN

Around £20

I guess it depends what you're loading. That would be ok for a shortboard or a bike, but if you're holding a longboard, 12'6" SUP or my windsurf bag (2.4m & ~25kg), it's a bit dodgy to be finding a set of steps you can't see (cause what you're carrying is in the way), stepping up onto them balancing a heavy long thing and then getting to your balance on top of them on two feet. It's a lot of hassle for no real benefit if you never drive off road or tow heavy trailers. I guess if you need to do those thing and only occasionally use the roof bars it's a way round the problem though

On another note, I do have one of those step ups for DIY and it's jolly useful - really sturdy and light.

[V8RX7]

RobM77 said:

I guess it depends what you're loading.

That would be ok for a shortboard or a bike, but if you're holding a longboard, 12'6" SUP or my windsurf bag (2.4m & ~25kg), it's a bit dodgy to be finding a set of steps you can't see

In my case: 8'x4' sheets of plywood, 6m long 8x2, my 4 man canoe.... start eating those shredded wheat !