Car Sales - what happened to you lot?!

[SteBrown91]

PixelpeepS3 said:

I am clearly the exception to the rule then because an RS3 is one of the shortlist cars on my radar.

I struggle to believe that someone in an S3 wouldn't want to have the same platform but with it turned up to 11.

i had already made them aware i was changing, and i had an interest in an RS3 - no one even tried to qualify me, it was ignored.

The only expectation i had so to speak is that someone would follow up what i had been talking about.

Look, im a 'punter' - im not saying i speak for everyone but i'm sure i'm not alone. They'd be better off getting someone in sales to speak to me to see if it had legs, rather than spending 6 hours calling a list of names and numbers off a spreadsheet to see if they're thinking of changing.

Im in the fking showroom, im telling them im changing and i even tell them what car im thinking of. How much easier does it get?

As you generalised saying S3 owners wouldn't want an RS3, ill generalise too - Salesmen of today are either dim, dumb, lazy or not bothered about making a sale.

I wonder how many people do that though just to get a better car to pootle round in for free?

If I was a salesman I would arrange for you to come another day to see if you were genuine.

Otherwise everyone would be thrashing the dealer demos round willy nilly

[PixelpeepS3]

SteBrown91 said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

I am clearly the exception to the rule then because an RS3 is one of the shortlist cars on my radar.

I struggle to believe that someone in an S3 wouldn't want to have the same platform but with it turned up to 11.

i had already made them aware i was changing, and i had an interest in an RS3 - no one even tried to qualify me, it was ignored.

The only expectation i had so to speak is that someone would follow up what i had been talking about.

Look, im a 'punter' - im not saying i speak for everyone but i'm sure i'm not alone. They'd be better off getting someone in sales to speak to me to see if it had legs, rather than spending 6 hours calling a list of names and numbers off a spreadsheet to see if they're thinking of changing.

Im in the fking showroom, im telling them im changing and i even tell them what car im thinking of. How much easier does it get?

As you generalised saying S3 owners wouldn't want an RS3, ill generalise too - Salesmen of today are either dim, dumb, lazy or not bothered about making a sale.

I wonder how many people do that though just to get a better car to pootle round in for free?

If I was a salesman I would arrange for you to come another day to see if you were genuine.

Otherwise everyone would be thrashing the dealer demos round willy nilly

totally agree. that would be an intelligent way to validate and shows initiative. You should work in car sales

[strain]

To be honest, if I was a salesman, I wouldn't be targeting somebody who's getting their car serviced, if people where serious about upgrading, they would trade it in before the service and save a few quid.

[PixelpeepS3]

strain said:

To be honest, if I was a salesman, I wouldn't be targeting somebody who's getting their car serviced, if people where serious about upgrading, they would trade it in before the service and save a few quid.

It's a good job you are not a salesman then. they'll just deduct the price of a service off what they'd offer you anyway as it was 11 months since the last one!

I'm serious about upgrading and had a service pack so it cost me nothing.

in sales you should never assume just because someone is doing X, they won't want to do Y.

Questions, qualifying, validation, asking and most importantly, listening, will get you sales.

[anonymous-user]

PixelpeepS3 said:

I am clearly the exception to the rule then because an RS3 is one of the shortlist cars on my radar.

I struggle to believe that someone in an S3 wouldn't want to have the same platform but with it turned up to 11.

i had already made them aware i was changing, and i had an interest in an RS3 - no one even tried to qualify me, it was ignored.

The only expectation i had so to speak is that someone would follow up what i had been talking about.

Look, im a 'punter' - im not saying i speak for everyone but i'm sure i'm not alone. They'd be better off getting someone in sales to speak to me to see if it had legs, rather than spending 6 hours calling a list of names and numbers off a spreadsheet to see if they're thinking of changing.

Im in the fking showroom, im telling them im changing and i even tell them what car im thinking of. How much easier does it get?

As you generalised saying S3 owners wouldn't want an RS3, ill generalise too - Salesmen of today are either dim, dumb, lazy or not bothered about making a sale.

So we are now 3 weeks or more on from your service. I assume you have test driven the RS3? What were your thoughts on it? Are you going to take the plunge?

[PixelpeepS3]

euphoricmess said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

I am clearly the exception to the rule then because an RS3 is one of the shortlist cars on my radar.

I struggle to believe that someone in an S3 wouldn't want to have the same platform but with it turned up to 11.

i had already made them aware i was changing, and i had an interest in an RS3 - no one even tried to qualify me, it was ignored.

The only expectation i had so to speak is that someone would follow up what i had been talking about.

Look, im a 'punter' - im not saying i speak for everyone but i'm sure i'm not alone. They'd be better off getting someone in sales to speak to me to see if it had legs, rather than spending 6 hours calling a list of names and numbers off a spreadsheet to see if they're thinking of changing.

Im in the fking showroom, im telling them im changing and i even tell them what car im thinking of. How much easier does it get?

As you generalised saying S3 owners wouldn't want an RS3, ill generalise too - Salesmen of today are either dim, dumb, lazy or not bothered about making a sale.

So we are now 3 weeks or more on from your service. I assume you have test driven the RS3? What were your thoughts on it? Are you going to take the plunge?

Like the 'apple curve' i didn't get my hands on the shiny new thing at the time so interest has dwindled. We've shelved the weekend car plan while we finish the house. Will revisit next year.

The S3 has gone now, and i know me - if they'd have put me in an RS3, even for a follow up test drive, i would have pretty much signed for it that day.

But, the experience left me feeling, well, fk you kinda thing. This car will be a nice to have - we both have our commute cars. No rush and i'm certainly not going to chase someone to give them money.

[anonymous-user]

PixelpeepS3 said:

Like the 'apple curve' i didn't get my hands on the shiny new thing at the time so interest has dwindled. We've shelved the weekend car plan while we finish the house. Will revisit next year.

The S3 has gone now, and i know me - if they'd have put me in an RS3, even for a follow up test drive, i would have pretty much signed for it that day.

But, the experience left me feeling, well, fk you kinda thing. This car will be a nice to have - we both have our commute cars. No rush and i'm certainly not going to chase someone to give them money.

I will be honest. This would suggest that the dealership made a good decision when utilising their limited time and resource - even if they were aware to have a decision to make.

I mean - for the majority of people who buy RS cars I would make a strong assumption that they are not the type to decide not to on the basis that they do not get one when having a service. I would imagine a large amount test drive a car another way and show some kind of willing that they might want the car.

Of course there are exceptions and you may well be one, but dealers have to make decisions based on hunches and probability. The fact that you have not followed this up would reinforce their behavior as it will suggest to them that you were after a quick joy ride rather than having a serious interest in buying an expensive car.

I have had a similar thought process over trading in my current car for a S5, but then the fact I have not pushed the deal through suggests to me and the dealer I am not enough of a serious buyer and I do not 'want it' enough

[RTB]

What's the consensus on warranty work? If you've bought a new car and it goes in to fix a fault, should the dealership provide you with a similar model while the work is being done?

Personally I'm not that bothered. Years ago when my (6 months old) Impreza STI went in for some warranty work I was given a Justy. I quite enjoyed the change, and when I got my Impreza back it underlined what an incredible bit of kit it was.

[anonymous-user]

RTB said:

What's the consensus on warranty work? If you've bought a new car and it goes in to fix a fault, should the dealership provide you with a similar model while the work is being done?

Personally I'm not that bothered. Years ago when my (6 months old) Impreza STI went in for some warranty work I was given a Justy. I quite enjoyed the change, and when I got my Impreza back it underlined what an incredible bit of kit it was.

My personal feel is if they are keeping it for more than a day then they should certainly give you a car that offers similar space and ease (so dont give you a three door if you have an SUV etc) and should be an auto if an auto, but if its not quite as good engine wise thats fine.

Longer and then they should give you something as good as it is their fault and you are missing out on something you are paying for.

All the above being true, there is also the fact that when I had a BMW I had to take it in for some warranty work and I asked for a mini. I always wanted to drive one and it was very different to my car. Not as quick but nice and sporty - wife loved it and ended up buying one.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 7th December 10:04

[ntiz]

I have to give Tesla 10/10 for this sort of thing. I was in the West Drayton dealership a few months ago chatting about getting a model X to replace my model S. Didn’t really like it and told them I wasn’t interested. Got chatting to the sales man about cars turns out he is a big petrolhead so ended up chatting about Porsche, Ferrari etc didn’t think anything of it.

My car has been in for a service this week. The day of collecting my car from me to go to Milton Keynes I get a call from the service department to be told that as I love fast cars the sale team have arranged for me to have a P100D for the week.

I know Tesla have a account for the owner instead of the car so have been wondering if the dealership at WD added something about giving me faster versions to tempt me. I’m very impressed that some how the information has gone from one dealership to another.

I didn’t like the car enough to want one but they absolutely gave themselves the best chance of convincing me! If I had liked it I would have probably tried to buy the loaner of them.

[PixelpeepS3]

euphoricmess said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

Like the 'apple curve' i didn't get my hands on the shiny new thing at the time so interest has dwindled. We've shelved the weekend car plan while we finish the house. Will revisit next year.

The S3 has gone now, and i know me - if they'd have put me in an RS3, even for a follow up test drive, i would have pretty much signed for it that day.

But, the experience left me feeling, well, fk you kinda thing. This car will be a nice to have - we both have our commute cars. No rush and i'm certainly not going to chase someone to give them money.

I will be honest. This would suggest that the dealership made a good decision when utilising their limited time and resource - even if they were aware to have a decision to make.

I mean - for the majority of people who buy RS cars I would make a strong assumption that they are not the type to decide not to on the basis that they do not get one when having a service. I would imagine a large amount test drive a car another way and show some kind of willing that they might want the car.

Of course there are exceptions and you may well be one, but dealers have to make decisions based on hunches and probability. The fact that you have not followed this up would reinforce their behavior as it will suggest to them that you were after a quick joy ride rather than having a serious interest in buying an expensive car.

Your assumptions on this occasion are incorrect.

i was and am in a position to buy, i already have sign off from Mrs Peep, cash from a house sale and have no other considerations - it would have been an impulse buy - i've done my research, on paper the RS3 is the car to have,i knew there would be an s3 shaped hole in my life.

this "you didn't chase it so you're not serious" assumption is part of the problem. i absolutely refuse to chase people to give them money - they get paid to sell stuff - its a recreational purchase so i am no rush to relieve myself of £50k. However, put it within touching distance and i'll rip your arm off for it.

Talking about wasting their time - how does calling thousands of numbers from an out of date spreadsheet of old customers, 'seeing if they've thought about chopping it in for a newer one' just when most sensible people are sitting down for their evening meal sound ? Its what they do, every month or so..

If you're good at sales, you talk people into buying - you only need a glimmer of interest from the punter.

Lastly, forget the test drive, no one even spoke to me about it. The art has been lost.

[anonymous-user]

PixelpeepS3 said:

Your assumptions on this occasion are incorrect.

i was and am in a position to buy, i already have sign off from Mrs Peep, cash from a house sale and have no other considerations - it would have been an impulse buy - i've done my research, on paper the RS3 is the car to have,i knew there would be an s3 shaped hole in my life.

this "you didn't chase it so you're not serious" assumption is part of the problem. i absolutely refuse to chase people to give them money - they get paid to sell stuff - its a recreational purchase so i am no rush to relieve myself of £50k. However, put it within touching distance and i'll rip your arm off for it.

Talking about wasting their time - how does calling thousands of numbers from an out of date spreadsheet of old customers, 'seeing if they've thought about chopping it in for a newer one' just when most sensible people are sitting down for their evening meal sound ? Its what they do, every month or so..

If you're good at sales, you talk people into buying - you only need a glimmer of interest from the punter.

Lastly, forget the test drive, no one even spoke to me about it. The art has been lost.

You are thinking of this at a very personal and blinkered level, rather than the generalist level.

Out of all the people who buy RS cars the majority will at some point request a test drive and look to actively purchase one - I would assume.

So imagine the guy has 4 types of people
1) people who have shown an interest in RS's, may have an old one etc
2) people who have shown an interest in an RS car by sending an email, making a simple call
3) people who have test driven one, discussed colours and options and everything
4) people who want one when they get their car serviced but have shown no interest outside of this.


If you are a betting man, what order do you put those 4 people in in terms of likelihood of buying?

I get your point of, if you had got in it it puts you further down the line to get one, but that assumes they had one available and left it sat there while you drove the standard car. However, perhaps they only have a few in their dealership (as in the main dealership brand, rather than the showroom) and they decided to use it on one of the other 3 types of people. On the glimmer of interest being shown and the idea they should jump on it is a bit of a false flag. I mean, give anyone the chance to drive one and they will likely show a glimmer of interest. I mean how many guys sit in the Audi R8 when they have turned up to buy a A3.

I do not work in sales, but i do work in probability, human behavior etc so to me it makes sense if they operate a model as I have suggested.

Plus for clarity, you have not proven my assumptions incorrect you have just highlighted that you may well be one of the anomalies i admit exists.

The fact that you have done nothing to start a conversation around the car puts your probability of buying one as being quite low. Unless the dealer parks on on your drive, I doubt you are going to buy one this week? They may also know that there are 10 other people they know of that if they park the car on their drive will buy it quicker than you.

Finally, your idea that the dealer is sat making cold calls may not quite be true. What if he and his team were busy sorting orders, dealing with customers who had dared to call the dealer and discuss a deal etc.

I would also wonder whether they have noticed a greater level of success in ringing people seeing if they fancy a change of car is more successful than sorting a loan of a car for someone who has not even suggested to them he fancies buying one?

I mean, if i was sat there trying to get the dealership to sort me a test drive of an RS5 and they said, oh sorry mate, I know you have spec'd yours out but we have just lent it to a guy who asked for one on his service in the off chance he buys it, he would lose a sale with what certainty you buy it?

My recommendation, go on carwow and throw in a query on an RS3 - will take you five minutes.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 7th December 12:05

[nunpuncher]

Mexman said:

Whatever we do, whatever we don't do, we get flamed for it either way and can't win.
Jump on people, you get shot down, don't jump on people, you are ignoring them.
Most sales people I know including myself are plenty busy enough serving the customers we already have, have lined up or are already processing.
There are only so many hours in the day, and when you are selling, and processing so many orders and enquiries already, any more and your existing customers will suffer, due to cars not being ready, not cleaned, work shopped, fuelled and handover preparation not ready etc..
I do not know of, and have never worked with a lazy salesperson who sits around waiting for the odd deal to fall in his lap, because they would not have a job very long.
I have had virtually no time off this year at all, and now, come the slightly quiter month or two coming, I want to wind down and actually have a break and some time off away from customers/ the public and there ever increasing demands on your time and life.

All the sales people being so busy with existing customers that they don't have time to generate or nurture new business or even take any time off doesn't seem like a sustainable business model.

Good staff will leave from being over worked, prospective new customers will not return if they feel they were ignored on initial visit and existing customers are increasingly looking to price comparison sites for the best deals rather than dealership loyalty. It's an especially strange way to run a business where the time frame to potentially up sell an existing customer must normally be a matter of years.

[Bone Rat]

Just some comments as I've been following this one for a while, I know where the OP is coming from. My dealings were with Porsche & their dealer. Wife bought a new 981 Cayman and it was delegated to me to take it in for it's service - her car, only she drives it. I wasn't looking to change but they were very keen that I had a Panamera as a courtesy car, I had a TT and I guess they had seen an old male fart and had him pigeon holed as a prospective 'family sized car' customer.

Was very impressed with the car but it was far too big for me and potentially licence losing so didn't get a sale from me - BUT this did generate a very positive impression on both the wife and me such that she traded in the quite basic 981 earlier than planned for a much more profitable to them, fully loaded 718S. Initially she liked the prospects of changing to a Jaguar or MB but that small gesture swayed things for her, intangibles sometimes do count

[PixelpeepS3]

euphoricmess said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

Your assumptions on this occasion are incorrect.

i was and am in a position to buy, i already have sign off from Mrs Peep, cash from a house sale and have no other considerations - it would have been an impulse buy - i've done my research, on paper the RS3 is the car to have,i knew there would be an s3 shaped hole in my life.

this "you didn't chase it so you're not serious" assumption is part of the problem. i absolutely refuse to chase people to give them money - they get paid to sell stuff - its a recreational purchase so i am no rush to relieve myself of £50k. However, put it within touching distance and i'll rip your arm off for it.

Talking about wasting their time - how does calling thousands of numbers from an out of date spreadsheet of old customers, 'seeing if they've thought about chopping it in for a newer one' just when most sensible people are sitting down for their evening meal sound ? Its what they do, every month or so..

If you're good at sales, you talk people into buying - you only need a glimmer of interest from the punter.

Lastly, forget the test drive, no one even spoke to me about it. The art has been lost.

You are thinking of this at a very personal and blinkered level, rather than the generalist level.

Out of all the people who buy RS cars the majority will at some point request a test drive and look to actively purchase one - I would assume.

So imagine the guy has 4 types of people
1) people who have shown an interest in RS's, may have an old one etc
2) people who have shown an interest in an RS car by sending an email, making a simple call
3) people who have test driven one, discussed colours and options and everything
4) people who want one when they get their car serviced but have shown no interest outside of this.


If you are a betting man, what order do you put those 4 people in in terms of likelihood of buying?

I get your point of, if you had got in it it puts you further down the line to get one, but that assumes they had one available and left it sat there while you drove the standard car. However, perhaps they only have a few in their dealership (as in the main dealership brand, rather than the showroom) and they decided to use it on one of the other 3 types of people. On the glimmer of interest being shown and the idea they should jump on it is a bit of a false flag. I mean, give anyone the chance to drive one and they will likely show a glimmer of interest. I mean how many guys sit in the Audi R8 when they have turned up to buy a A3.

I do not work in sales, but i do work in probability, human behavior etc so to me it makes sense if they operate a model as I have suggested.

Plus for clarity, you have not proven my assumptions incorrect you have just highlighted that you may well be one of the anomalies i admit exists.

The fact that you have done nothing to start a conversation around the car puts your probability of buying one as being quite low. Unless the dealer parks on on your drive, I doubt you are going to buy one this week? They may also know that there are 10 other people they know of that if they park the car on their drive will buy it quicker than you.

Finally, your idea that the dealer is sat making cold calls may not quite be true. What if he and his team were busy sorting orders, dealing with customers who had dared to call the dealer and discuss a deal etc.

I would also wonder whether they have noticed a greater level of success in ringing people seeing if they fancy a change of car is more successful than sorting a loan of a car for someone who has not even suggested to them he fancies buying one?

I mean, if i was sat there trying to get the dealership to sort me a test drive of an RS5 and they said, oh sorry mate, I know you have spec'd yours out but we have just lent it to a guy who asked for one on his service in the off chance he buys it, he would lose a sale with what certainty you buy it?

My recommendation, go on carwow and throw in a query on an RS3 - will take you five minutes.

Edited by euphoricmess on Friday 7th December 12:05

you are 100% not getting this.

Lets strip away all your assumptions about i just want to rag someone elses RS3 around all day etc and look at the facts.

1) im getting rid of my reasonably new performance audi (2016)
2) i have been looking at a newer performance audi.

would that not be worth 2 minutes of a salesmans time, just to qualify?

The OP was not about i didn't get the car for a test drive, it was about no one even bothered to follow up on two flags that make me more of a serious buyer than those wondering in and kicking tyres.

[anonymous-user]

PixelpeepS3 said:

you are 100% not getting this.

Lets strip away all your assumptions about i just want to rag someone elses RS3 around all day etc and look at the facts.

1) im getting rid of my reasonably new performance audi (2016)
2) i have been looking at a newer performance audi.

would that not be worth 2 minutes of a salesmans time, just to qualify?

The OP was not about i didn't get the car for a test drive, it was about no one even bothered to follow up on two flags that make me more of a serious buyer than those wondering in and kicking tyres.

If i missed the bit where you had expressed an interest to someone within the sales team about looking at a newer performance audi then I apologise. The way I had interpreted it was that you had not done that simple step.

I would still have test driven it since mind.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 7th December 13:32

[PixelpeepS3]

euphoricmess said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

you are 100% not getting this.

Lets strip away all your assumptions about i just want to rag someone elses RS3 around all day etc and look at the facts.

1) im getting rid of my reasonably new performance audi (2016)
2) i have been looking at a newer performance audi.

would that not be worth 2 minutes of a salesmans time, just to qualify?

The OP was not about i didn't get the car for a test drive, it was about no one even bothered to follow up on two flags that make me more of a serious buyer than those wondering in and kicking tyres.

If i missed the bit where you had expressed an interest to someone within the sales team about looking at a newer performance audi then I apologise. The way I had interpreted it was that you had not done that simple step.

I was talking to the service adviser they assigned me, telling them the two facts that no one followed up on.

if you read some of the other posts of mine in this thread you'll see the other point about sales & service not working together and the fact that when i was in the game, 7 odd years ago, it was different, we were different, we would use ANY opportunity to try and get a lead by working smarter and joined up.

The other thing i don't think you get is that i'm in no rush, but i am impulsive

spare cash + sign off from the missus + just got rid of a fun car + now have no fun car + in an audi showroom chatting about a new audi..

the whim has now passed - and they could have very easily converted it into a sale, when i was in the frame of mind (and in the bloody showroom)

so fk um - i'm just trying to give some feedback as a customer to the bods that work in that industry.. i'm £8 better off because i didn't buy the car... natwest have 'rewarded' me for leaving the money in the account lol.

[anonymous-user]

PixelpeepS3 said:

I was talking to the service adviser they assigned me, telling them the two facts that no one followed up on.

if you read some of the other posts of mine in this thread you'll see the other point about sales & service not working together and the fact that when i was in the game, 7 odd years ago, it was different, we were different, we would use ANY opportunity to try and get a lead by working smarter and joined up.

The other thing i don't think you get is that i'm in no rush, but i am impulsive

spare cash + sign off from the missus + just got rid of a fun car + now have no fun car + in an audi showroom chatting about a new audi..

the whim has now passed - and they could have very easily converted it into a sale, when i was in the frame of mind (and in the bloody showroom)

so fk um - i'm just trying to give some feedback as a customer to the bods that work in that industry.. i'm £8 better off because i didn't buy the car... natwest have 'rewarded' me for leaving the money in the account lol.

well put that £8 together with the petrol savings and you will have a decent little stash for some further upgrades

I think its just different expectations. Were it me I would have had a quick chat with the sales guy, get some figures and give them a heads up about the service and a extended test drive opportunity. Then if they didnt sort it, and didnt even spend 5 mins chatting to me with the old "sorry we could not sort it, but we can get you a test drive on.... and we have some prices" then I would likely share your frustrations.

However, i can imagine a conversation in the dealership, assuming they chat and I know they often run as two separate entities now, "Mr Peep was mentioning his interest in an RS3 and wanting one on loan while, did he get in touch with you for a quote?.... No? cheeky bd just wanted to rag one round didnt he, what a scamp"

Lets not forget, dealers will often find ways that work for them, they often have their tactics and will be burnt by past experience, we are all Bayesian when predicting probability. If in the past they have had time wasters, then they likely to focus on the ones that lead them to more success.

As I say, I still think the large amount of people who buy RS3's and similar at least bother to chat with a sales guy for five mins first. I may be wrong.

[Fast Bug]

Sadly sales and service people rarely communicate. Sales see service as a department that try and push their own margins up whilst decreasing the sales profit margins. Sales see service as pointy shoe wearing wkers that do fk all and get paid more money than them. Sometimes you'll find a dealership where they speak to each other about opportunities, but in my 20 years in various dealerships I've only known 2 services departments that were proactive. And both of those dealerships paid a £50 intro fee to the service person if a sale was made.

On the standard of car side of thing, courtesy cars are a huge cost to a service department with little return (to them) so they'll run the cheapest things possible. The Porsche dealership I worked at had 2 Boxsters and 2 Cayenne (this was back 2005ish so no Macan etc), the rest of the courtesy cars were whatever the group needed to push to hit target, so either A3 or BMW 1/3 Series. The Porsche courtesy cars went to repeat customers and those customers that us sales guys asked service to put them subject to availability. Even then it wasn't guaranteed it would happen, unexpected part needed for previous customers car can delay things, or the customer not turning up to collect their own car when they're meant to.

[WonkeyDonkey]

If you already have your commuting cars how come you're looking at an Audi as a weekend car?

Different strokes for different folks and all that but I wouldn't have thought they're that special or involving for just weekend jollies.

Surely the beauty of them kind of cars is that they are a more than capable daily.