Fancy an affordable old school "supercar"
Discussion
Good God. The thread exploded in the mean time. 
Nice to see some participation, after being so quiet in here. Thanks everybody for playing.
Some interesting suggestions here. I will address each.
Noble M12 is not really the thing. Much more modern.
Murena is interesting enough. But would anybody take one over the Esprit?
944 is totally off, sorry.
NSX is nice. But I think it misses that spark. Maybe I'm crazy to prefer the Esprit? Seems more of a supercar somehow. Maybe because my generation expects supercars to be unreliable.
850 again somehow not there. It's not really like the Esprit, Venturi or NSX. It doesn't have the supercar low profile and sitting.
AC 300ME I was never a fan. I would honestly prefer something like the MR2.
Montecarlo is lovely. But older, and again not the supercar style I'm looking for which is wedgy with pop ups.
But great suggestions. I think it is just becoming more clear that the Esprit and Venturi and now with a higher budget the NSX are basically alone here.
Nice to see some participation, after being so quiet in here. Thanks everybody for playing.
Some interesting suggestions here. I will address each.
Noble M12 is not really the thing. Much more modern.
Murena is interesting enough. But would anybody take one over the Esprit?
944 is totally off, sorry.
NSX is nice. But I think it misses that spark. Maybe I'm crazy to prefer the Esprit? Seems more of a supercar somehow. Maybe because my generation expects supercars to be unreliable.
850 again somehow not there. It's not really like the Esprit, Venturi or NSX. It doesn't have the supercar low profile and sitting.
AC 300ME I was never a fan. I would honestly prefer something like the MR2.
Montecarlo is lovely. But older, and again not the supercar style I'm looking for which is wedgy with pop ups.
But great suggestions. I think it is just becoming more clear that the Esprit and Venturi and now with a higher budget the NSX are basically alone here.
https://www.forza288.com/ferrari/ferrari-mondial-q...
Also disagree with the Mondial comment regarding prices at £30K being only a list of parts.
I viewed this car before you know what just after Christmas and it had been well maintained and I’m sure could have been subject to a small haggle.
This from one of the nicest people in the Ferrari world who was a pleasure to meet.
Also disagree with the Mondial comment regarding prices at £30K being only a list of parts.
I viewed this car before you know what just after Christmas and it had been well maintained and I’m sure could have been subject to a small haggle.
This from one of the nicest people in the Ferrari world who was a pleasure to meet.
One more mid-engined rarity - this apparently went for £18k at auction in 2017
https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/panther-solo
Meant to be amazing to drive, although you'd have to be comfortable being a 'development driver' and with a total worldwide production of twelve (12) cars, spares might be an issue!
What a brilliant thread, i’m in the same boat after feeling like any modern supercar purchase now would leave me feeling a bit uncomfortable tbh.
Love the DeTomaso suggestion, never even new it existed having always been hooked on owning a Pantera some day
Watched basic instinct again the other night so the esprit over ferrari for me but the venturi looks nice to, NSX never really captured the essence of early supercars for me, to reliable and useable probably
Love the DeTomaso suggestion, never even new it existed having always been hooked on owning a Pantera some day
Watched basic instinct again the other night so the esprit over ferrari for me but the venturi looks nice to, NSX never really captured the essence of early supercars for me, to reliable and useable probably
TurboBlue said:
OP, I think the choice is as you set out in the first post; Lotus vs Venturi if you want to keep this under £30k; no-body has linked the Venturi that is for sale on PH but there are currently two; the cheapest at £29,995 for a MVS 200 model. Similiar age Esprits are between £20-25k with a little more power from a smaller engine. I've no experience with either so I'll make a subjective call, based solely on looks - I prefer the French car; and just for viewing pleasure:
The main question with the Venturi is I think they are overpriced for what they are. Their price is purely based on how many they made. If they had made as many as Esprits they would be cheaper than the Esprit. So you are not paying for extra performance or any thing extra. I just don't feel like paying that. The one you link to seems to be in the bottom of the price range. I wonder the reason. I think it should cost less than Esprits of the same vintage. The only one more special is the Venturi 400 GT and that costs many times the price of a Esprit V8. Just doesn't add up for me. Not if I'm using my own money to buy it anyhow.
samoht said:
Since you're upping the budget, how about a De Tomaso Guara with a BMW V8 for £85k ?
Pic from classicdriver.com
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/de-tomaso/gua...
Not intending to pay nearly that much. £85k is just not in the cards. Pic from classicdriver.com
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/de-tomaso/gua...
I was thinking about 40K tops now. 45K if I really like it. The idea is affordable supercar.
I know affordable is different for everybody. But it's hard to argue 85K is affordable to the general person. Eve 45K is a stretch.
Hence why I think I will end up with some type of Esprit. There doesn't seem to be anything else that looks and feels like it for that price. The Mondial despite being a Ferrari just doesn't appeal as much to me. Neither does the NSX. The Panther Solo above is just a strange looking car. Very odd.
This Venturi was a 'spotted' car - thread here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It was up for £35k originally but is now £30k; but there is a suggestion in the discussion that it sold at auction in 2017 for £16k and it hasn't done any mileage since. It is overpriced, because as you say, it is rare and eventually someone will buy it; I prefer the looks over the Esprit but it doesn't make sense at that price/performance unless you want the rarity to be the main factor in your decision.
At £45k, aren't you edging really close to Ferrari 348 territory?
Yes, you are - https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... - £49,985
It was up for £35k originally but is now £30k; but there is a suggestion in the discussion that it sold at auction in 2017 for £16k and it hasn't done any mileage since. It is overpriced, because as you say, it is rare and eventually someone will buy it; I prefer the looks over the Esprit but it doesn't make sense at that price/performance unless you want the rarity to be the main factor in your decision.
At £45k, aren't you edging really close to Ferrari 348 territory?
Yes, you are - https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... - £49,985
Venturi is definitely overpirced. Even the 400 GT. I don't get the reference of being the French F40. Not even close. Just because it copied the design doesn't make it similar.
The F40 not only has about 100 hp on it, it is also not a parts bin special. The Venturis are more like Lotus. They use Renault suspension, Peugeot engine, Mercedes wiper and other shared parts. Only thing original is the plastic body it looks. F40 is a thoroughbred.
The 400 GT should be priced as the V8 Ferraris really.
Which brings me to the 348. Problem with the 348, 355 and even the Mondial T is that much of the service is an engine out affair. This is the biggest advantage of the pre Modial T cars. The engine doesn't have to come out.
When you hear the Mondials are not so expensive to run, it's normally meant the older pre facelift cars before the Mondial T. But the Mondial T looks better and has the updated interior which looks like the Testarossa interior. The older Mondials are just not as nice in my opinion.
The F40 not only has about 100 hp on it, it is also not a parts bin special. The Venturis are more like Lotus. They use Renault suspension, Peugeot engine, Mercedes wiper and other shared parts. Only thing original is the plastic body it looks. F40 is a thoroughbred.
The 400 GT should be priced as the V8 Ferraris really.
Which brings me to the 348. Problem with the 348, 355 and even the Mondial T is that much of the service is an engine out affair. This is the biggest advantage of the pre Modial T cars. The engine doesn't have to come out.
When you hear the Mondials are not so expensive to run, it's normally meant the older pre facelift cars before the Mondial T. But the Mondial T looks better and has the updated interior which looks like the Testarossa interior. The older Mondials are just not as nice in my opinion.
Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
belfry said:
Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
The Mondial gets unfairly beaten up. It's aged really well and is an elegant attractive design. I would take a Mondial or Merak over an S4 Esprit any day of the week. Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
If we’re going up to £45k are 308 GT4s in contention?
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
belfry said:
Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value.
Your Merak looks lovely Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value.
however I think people are catching on, the floor for a decent Merak seems to be around £50k, which is a bit above the OP's limit. belfry said:
Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
I didn't see anybody making any negative comments about the Merak. I certainly didn't. The Merak is a bit older than what I want and the prices are too high for me too. But apart from that I think it's a beautiful car. I also prefer the design over the Bora. I like the flying buttresses better than the glass rear.Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
Your Merak is stunning.
The Mondial I was never a fan of the design. Just my personal opinion. Mainly because the the rear seats, which make the rear a bit long. But if choosing I prefer the late ones. Like the Mondial T. But like I said the problem with the late ones is the expense to have the engine serviced because it's an engine out job.
emperorburger said:
The Mondial gets unfairly beaten up. It's aged really well and is an elegant attractive design. I would take a Mondial or Merak over an S4 Esprit any day of the week.
From a design point of view, sure. It's a matter of preference. But from a driving point of view, wouldn't you say the Esprit S4 is a sharper drive than both?griffter said:
If we’re going up to £45k are 308 GT4s in contention?
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
Looks is really subjective and I much prefer the looks of the GT4 than the Mondial. But it is just too old. I really want 80's or 90's. Best if late 80's or early 90's. I know they were made till 1980. But it's a 70's car.https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
I would also not be comfortable paying that much for a car of that age. I know it's a Ferrari but still.
griffter said:
If we’re going up to £45k are 308 GT4s in contention?
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
They should always be. Way ahead of the Mondial.https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/classic_cars.php?p...
belfry said:
Looks like Ferrari Mondials and Maserati Meraks are getting the usual negative comments. I own both! Maybe I like underdogs?
Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
Merak is nice. I was going to suggest it but figured it would be out of budget.Or maybe I like the fact that these attitudes make the Merak and Mondial great value. For example the Merak SS is half the price of the heavier Bora. Having driven both I know which one handles better, and shouldn't handling be a bigger part of this topic? How a car handles and sounds would be a much bigger influence for me if I was in the lucky position of the OP.
Neither has been expensive to run or maintain and both have been on Eurotrips to Italy with me. Here are some pics.
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