Sold Car / Money Back / Complex One?

[PistonTim]

hunt123 said:

PistonTim said:

I haven’t replied since his small claims message this morning and no intention to correspond more.

Good stuff. Keep doing that, he'll get bored and realise you aren't falling it.
Your only response now should be if he threatens you to inform the police but it won't probably/hopefully won't come to that.

Cheers, hopefully so but as someone said above it’s a shame there’s no legal recourse for this type of thing!

[Brett748]

Fingers crossed he goes away OP.

This is why I am always highly reluctant to sell cars privately. People these days often have absolutely no integrity at all.

I bought a scooter a few years back (lockdown boredom wanted a two stroke 100cc to take me back to my youth) and it broke down on the way home because the carb was blocked. The seller asked if I got back ok and I sent him a pic at the garage and in fairness he sent me £100 to cover the repair. I didn't ask for the money and accepted it for what it was but he had the decency to pay for the repair as it had been stood for a while and not ridden. If you have two decent people things work out a lot easier.

[PistonTim]

Brett748 said:

Fingers crossed he goes away OP.

This is why I am always highly reluctant to sell cars privately. People these days often have absolutely no integrity at all.

I bought a scooter a few years back (lockdown boredom wanted a two stroke 100cc to take me back to my youth) and it broke down on the way home because the carb was blocked. The seller asked if I got back ok and I sent him a pic at the garage and in fairness he sent me £100 to cover the repair. I didn't ask for the money and accepted it for what it was but he had the decency to pay for the repair as it had been stood for a while and not ridden. If you have two decent people things work out a lot easier.

Ultimately I offered a full refund and to collect the car, he did not take me up on that offer and instead suggested I should give him contribution towards the repairs.

I do not believe the car actually has any faults, it certainly did not in my 16 months of ownership nor when sold.

I am certainly not going to send cash across,

[Hammersia]

PistonTim said:

hunt123 said:

PistonTim said:

I haven’t replied since his small claims message this morning and no intention to correspond more.

Good stuff. Keep doing that, he'll get bored and realise you aren't falling it.
Your only response now should be if he threatens you to inform the police but it won't probably/hopefully won't come to that.

Cheers, hopefully so but as someone said above it’s a shame there’s no legal recourse for this type of thing!

There is plenty of legal protection available, here's one I wrote earlier, Cause of Action:

1 The Claimant seeks a civil remedy to the offence of harassment, as provided by the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Chapter 40, section 3 (“the Act”).
2 The Defendant has pursued a course of conduct which amounts to harassment of the Claimant, and which the Defendant knows amounts to harassment of the Claimant, as prohibited by the Act, section 1, part 1, a) and b).
3 The Defendant has harassed the Claimant by repeated unwanted communication including quasi legal documents, and continued the course of harassment when specifically requested not to do so, as per the Details of Claim below.
4 There have been at least six (6) incidents of harassment of the Claimant by the Defendant.
5 The Claimant has suffered from Anxiety, specifically insomnia and depression, due to the actions of the Defendant.

etc. etc.

[PistonTim]

Hammersia said:

PistonTim said:

hunt123 said:

PistonTim said:

I haven’t replied since his small claims message this morning and no intention to correspond more.

Good stuff. Keep doing that, he'll get bored and realise you aren't falling it.
Your only response now should be if he threatens you to inform the police but it won't probably/hopefully won't come to that.

Cheers, hopefully so but as someone said above it’s a shame there’s no legal recourse for this type of thing!

There is plenty of legal protection available, here's one I wrote earlier, Cause of Action:

1 The Claimant seeks a civil remedy to the offence of harassment, as provided by the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, Chapter 40, section 3 (“the Act”).
2 The Defendant has pursued a course of conduct which amounts to harassment of the Claimant, and which the Defendant knows amounts to harassment of the Claimant, as prohibited by the Act, section 1, part 1, a) and b).
3 The Defendant has harassed the Claimant by repeated unwanted communication including quasi legal documents, and continued the course of harassment when specifically requested not to do so, as per the Details of Claim below.
4 There have been at least six (6) incidents of harassment of the Claimant by the Defendant.
5 The Claimant has suffered from Anxiety, specifically insomnia and depression, due to the actions of the Defendant.

etc. etc.

Thank you, he has been quiet since texting me he was going to take me to small claims yesterday AM. I did not reply to that.

[Pelicula]

Its important to keep a sense of perspective.
The vast, overwhelming majority of people are more than fair, generous even.
Over the years I've bought and sold around 60 personal cars and there have been no issues other than one East European gentleman (small g) who claimed there to have been hardly any oil in once getting the car home....
I've heard stories from mates though and its always the same kind of people trying it on. Perhaps its a cultural thing they're bringing with them ?
Its all about screening your enquiries guys.
Don't like the sound of the guy or the tone of the message ? Ignore.
I always insist on a telephone number and a conversation about the car before inviting a stranger to my home.
It sounds obvious but its really important that you control of the situation once they do arrive.
I always start with the paperwork. Once they've looked it all over and confirm they're happy. Proceed.
Then onto the car itself. Once inspected....happy so far ? Good.
Keep the conversation totally about the car - avoiding wandering off into 'car guy' talk....
Test drive you say ? So apart from how it drives, you're happy ?
So, if it drives without problems we'll be doing a deal today ?
Obviously make all this sound as natural as possible....no-one wants to sound like Mike Brewer....

[PistonTim]

Pelicula said:

Its important to keep a sense of perspective.
The vast, overwhelming majority of people are more than fair, generous even.
Over the years I've bought and sold around 60 personal cars and there have been no issues other than one East European gentleman (small g) who claimed there to have been hardly any oil in once getting the car home....
I've heard stories from mates though and its always the same kind of people trying it on. Perhaps its a cultural thing they're bringing with them ?
Its all about screening your enquiries guys.
Don't like the sound of the guy or the tone of the message ? Ignore.
I always insist on a telephone number and a conversation about the car before inviting a stranger to my home.
It sounds obvious but its really important that you control of the situation once they do arrive.
I always start with the paperwork. Once they've looked it all over and confirm they're happy. Proceed.
Then onto the car itself. Once inspected....happy so far ? Good.
Keep the conversation totally about the car - avoiding wandering off into 'car guy' talk....
Test drive you say ? So apart from how it drives, you're happy ?
So, if it drives without problems we'll be doing a deal today ?
Obviously make all this sound as natural as possible....no-one wants to sound like Mike Brewer....

In this case the individual / known background did not raise any red flags, conversation was normal and the overall tone was fine.

It has been since the sale was completed he's completely changed his tone.

[Pelicula]

You can only do so much I realise.
Did you each sign the receipt you produced ?
Was it clear that the car was 'sold as seen'?

[coldel]

This is true, I have sold probably a dozen cars privately and never had a problem.

You just sometimes get the odd tt like this.

[Tyrell Corp]

If he is stealth dealer, then your car is likely advertised elsewhere online already.

Unlikely to have taxed it-which you can check online with DVLA, and probably dodging insurance too - unless he has trade cover, in which case he would drive away on trade plates.

If you are feeling petty and you find out where the car is now, if parked up untaxed on the road, then report to DVLA wheel clamping enforcement.

[Dinoboy]

PistonTim said:

Pelicula said:

Its important to keep a sense of perspective.
The vast, overwhelming majority of people are more than fair, generous even.
Over the years I've bought and sold around 60 personal cars and there have been no issues other than one East European gentleman (small g) who claimed there to have been hardly any oil in once getting the car home....
I've heard stories from mates though and its always the same kind of people trying it on. Perhaps its a cultural thing they're bringing with them ?
Its all about screening your enquiries guys.
Don't like the sound of the guy or the tone of the message ? Ignore.
I always insist on a telephone number and a conversation about the car before inviting a stranger to my home.
It sounds obvious but its really important that you control of the situation once they do arrive.
I always start with the paperwork. Once they've looked it all over and confirm they're happy. Proceed.
Then onto the car itself. Once inspected....happy so far ? Good.
Keep the conversation totally about the car - avoiding wandering off into 'car guy' talk....
Test drive you say ? So apart from how it drives, you're happy ?
So, if it drives without problems we'll be doing a deal today ?
Obviously make all this sound as natural as possible....no-one wants to sound like Mike Brewer....

In this case the individual / known background did not raise any red flags, conversation was normal and the overall tone was fine.

It has been since the sale was completed he's completely changed his tone.

I've asked for a screenshot of their driving license before.

[valiant]

Tyrell Corp said:

If he is stealth dealer, then your car is likely advertised elsewhere online already.

Unlikely to have taxed it-which you can check online with DVLA, and probably dodging insurance too - unless he has trade cover, in which case he would drive away on trade plates.

If you are feeling petty and you find out where the car is now, if parked up untaxed on the road, then report to DVLA wheel clamping enforcement.

It’ll be up for sale somewhere before too long once he’s realised that his tactics haven’t worked.

Might be an idea to keep checking the various car sales websites and for fun, when it does appear, go visit as a prospective buyer and start pointing out all the faults.

[scot_aln]

It's been mentioned about validating a buyer, tone etc. Out of interest a 20% drop from the asking price was quite a harsh bit of negotiating. Had the buyer highlighted things to get £1050 off? Just wondering if they started nit picking at purchase time.

Unfortunately this is another reminder why the webuyanycar type set ups are so commonly used. For every easy, simple private sale there are probably a fair few of these ones.

[coldel]

scot_aln said:

It's been mentioned about validating a buyer, tone etc. Out of interest a 20% drop from the asking price was quite a harsh bit of negotiating. Had the buyer highlighted things to get £1050 off? Just wondering if they started nit picking at purchase time.

Unfortunately this is another reminder why the webuyanycar type set ups are so commonly used. For every easy, simple private sale there are probably a fair few of these ones.

Plenty of comments about WBAC turning up and knocking loads off for the most minor things too. The benefit with them is easy payment and they just come and collect the car its all very impersonal.

But as someone said, instances of this type of private sale are few and far between, if everyone posted on here every time they had a good private sale there would be literally hundreds of posts in between every bad one like this. Lets not think that this is the norm for a private sale.

[PistonTim]

scot_aln said:

It's been mentioned about validating a buyer, tone etc. Out of interest a 20% drop from the asking price was quite a harsh bit of negotiating. Had the buyer highlighted things to get £1050 off? Just wondering if they started nit picking at purchase time.

Unfortunately this is another reminder why the webuyanycar type set ups are so commonly used. For every easy, simple private sale there are probably a fair few of these ones.

No, there was no nit picking or any faults identified during the purchase time at all, it was exactly as described.

TBH my £5250 was on the ambitious side, there's a few similar cars for high-3s in the area just mine was a better spec albeit higher mileage. ULEZ has hit non compliant diesels hard in the South East.

[bennno]

Pelicula said:

RECEIPT.

Received from - Mr. SImon Jones
The sum of £10000 via Bank Transfer
As full payment for
BMW X5 CX67 GHN
Odometer 65432
Which is SOLD AS SEEN
With no warranty given, implied or otherwise
Dated 15-6-23
Time 17:10
Signed (seller) -
Signed (buyer) -

Print two copies of the above and both sign
Print two copies of Bank Transfer - both sign.

Over a cup of tea.
Firm handshake.
Wave it down the road.

You missed the most important text 'PRIVATE SALE'

[Giantt]

Tell him to foxtrot oscar,big builder types often full of excrement he came he saw he bought,next

[Cockaigne]

bennno said:

You missed the most important text 'PRIVATE SALE'

you don't really have to. Traders will sell as private. So putting it doesn't really make much difference.

[bennno]

Cockaigne said:

bennno said:

You missed the most important text 'PRIVATE SALE'

you don't really have to. Traders will sell as private. So putting it doesn't really make much difference.

In which case why write SOLD AS SEEN, no warranty etc

For the sake of avoiding future issues it takes seconds to add PrIvate Sale of to xxx

If selling to trade capture also important to capture that on the receipt.

[Mark V GTD]

coldel said:

Plenty of comments about WBAC turning up and knocking loads off for the most minor things too. The benefit with them is easy payment and they just come and collect the car it’s all very impersonal.

Presumably from people who have not actually used them. They don’t collect the car - you take it to them. They don’t knock money off if you declare all defects and have the paperwork and mileage correct.