GR86, Cayman or Alpine?
Discussion
I had this choice. My thinking:
GR86, interesting, probably a great drive, well built, niggling feeling it wasn't special enough. Something you transit through and not a keeper.
Cayman, no doubting its a great thing, great image, solid choice. But niggling feeling it was the totally obvious choice and at my budget I wouldn't be in a GTS or 4.0, but a more base car. They are the safe bet and everywhere - the VW golf of sportscars. A bit meh...
I bought the Alpine. Uncommon, properly deep and smart engineering answer to the fundamental question - light weight. No amount of contrast stitching and option list exploitation will make a Cayman 300kg lighter and drive with the delicacy the Alpine does.
On the reliability point. On my sample of 1, not a single issue since delivery in 2021. Fabulous thing. Absolute keeper for me.
GR86, interesting, probably a great drive, well built, niggling feeling it wasn't special enough. Something you transit through and not a keeper.
Cayman, no doubting its a great thing, great image, solid choice. But niggling feeling it was the totally obvious choice and at my budget I wouldn't be in a GTS or 4.0, but a more base car. They are the safe bet and everywhere - the VW golf of sportscars. A bit meh...
I bought the Alpine. Uncommon, properly deep and smart engineering answer to the fundamental question - light weight. No amount of contrast stitching and option list exploitation will make a Cayman 300kg lighter and drive with the delicacy the Alpine does.
On the reliability point. On my sample of 1, not a single issue since delivery in 2021. Fabulous thing. Absolute keeper for me.
I bought a GR86 and have owned it for over a year.
It's so good I'm thinking of selling my 993 after 18 years because the Toyota is so much fun to drive even though it is slower and has an ordinary sounding engine. It's all about the handling. The power to weight ratio on the Toyota is the same as the Porsche 964 which was never considered a slow car but power is not what this car is all about, neither is soundproofing or an Audi-like interior!
I did consider an Alpine but at the time I looked they were well over £40k and i preferred a manual gearbox and NA engine.
I'm a touch over 6'3" and the Toyota and Alpine have more than enough room although the Toyota really benefits from a steering wheel spacer for a more natural driving position. The Cayman is way too compromised for legroom for me which is a real shame. The bulkhead needs to be moved back by 2 inches.
It's so good I'm thinking of selling my 993 after 18 years because the Toyota is so much fun to drive even though it is slower and has an ordinary sounding engine. It's all about the handling. The power to weight ratio on the Toyota is the same as the Porsche 964 which was never considered a slow car but power is not what this car is all about, neither is soundproofing or an Audi-like interior!
I did consider an Alpine but at the time I looked they were well over £40k and i preferred a manual gearbox and NA engine.
I'm a touch over 6'3" and the Toyota and Alpine have more than enough room although the Toyota really benefits from a steering wheel spacer for a more natural driving position. The Cayman is way too compromised for legroom for me which is a real shame. The bulkhead needs to be moved back by 2 inches.
sturge7878 said:
Didn’t one burn up on top gear nearly killing Eddie Jordan and Chris Harris?
https://www.carthrottle.com/news/next-top-gear-epi...
The car which caught fire was a pre-production car.https://www.carthrottle.com/news/next-top-gear-epi...
As Chris drifted it through the mountain bends and the engine moved around on its mountings, a plastic fuel line came into contact with an 8mm nut on the front of the engine, wearing a hole in it causing a fuel leak and thus the fire.
The fuel line was therefore re-routed to keep it clear of the nut, and for extra protection wrapped in a protective mesh.
This revision predated the start of A110 production (and the pre-prod cars were also refitted accordingly).
So yes, an A110 caught fire, but in knowledge of all the facts, I don't think any rational person would weigh that as a reason not to buy one today, since literally zero vehicles exist with the vulnerable fuel line.
samoht said:
sturge7878 said:
Didn’t one burn up on top gear nearly killing Eddie Jordan and Chris Harris?
https://www.carthrottle.com/news/next-top-gear-epi...
The car which caught fire was a pre-production car.https://www.carthrottle.com/news/next-top-gear-epi...
As Chris drifted it through the mountain bends and the engine moved around on its mountings, a plastic fuel line came into contact with an 8mm nut on the front of the engine, wearing a hole in it causing a fuel leak and thus the fire.
The fuel line was therefore re-routed to keep it clear of the nut, and for extra protection wrapped in a protective mesh.
This revision predated the start of A110 production (and the pre-prod cars were also refitted accordingly).
So yes, an A110 caught fire, but in knowledge of all the facts, I don't think any rational person would weigh that as a reason not to buy one today, since literally zero vehicles exist with the vulnerable fuel line.
Interesting chat.
I'm not a card carrying track god, so for me it was mostly about style/aesthetics, engagement, character then engineering, over and above absolute value for money or handling at the limit.
I loved the GT86 concept, I wept at the reality and even more at the GR86 follow up - so that'd get a no from me.
I love the Alpine, ALOT, but I can't get past the drivetrain as an ownership prospect, so that's my loss but am so happy it exists, and to sometimes see.
The Cayman, whilst a default choice at this price point, makes it sound/feel like a ubiquitous grey vehicle, actually isn't... well not in my experience, I see more of them than Alpines, but I see more GT/R86s or TT's or Z4s, 370's etc...
And bearing in mind its pretty much 75-80% the 911 of your chosen era, it is a superbly engineered thing with looks that (subjectively) age very well.
987 has all the feel
981 has more tech and solidity
718 is the same as the 981 just incrementally more as Porsche tend to do...
I chose a 981, that I bought after 7 years of S2000 ownership. No regrets, yet to see another like mine...
I'm not a card carrying track god, so for me it was mostly about style/aesthetics, engagement, character then engineering, over and above absolute value for money or handling at the limit.
I loved the GT86 concept, I wept at the reality and even more at the GR86 follow up - so that'd get a no from me.
I love the Alpine, ALOT, but I can't get past the drivetrain as an ownership prospect, so that's my loss but am so happy it exists, and to sometimes see.
The Cayman, whilst a default choice at this price point, makes it sound/feel like a ubiquitous grey vehicle, actually isn't... well not in my experience, I see more of them than Alpines, but I see more GT/R86s or TT's or Z4s, 370's etc...
And bearing in mind its pretty much 75-80% the 911 of your chosen era, it is a superbly engineered thing with looks that (subjectively) age very well.
987 has all the feel
981 has more tech and solidity
718 is the same as the 981 just incrementally more as Porsche tend to do...
I chose a 981, that I bought after 7 years of S2000 ownership. No regrets, yet to see another like mine...
Edited by Quickmoose on Thursday 23 May 09:31
Quickmoose said:
Interesting chat.
I'm not a card carrying track god, so for me it was mostly about style/aesthetics, engagement, character then engineering, over and above absolute value for money or handling at the limit.
I loved the GT86 concept, I wept at the reality - so that'd get a no from me.
I love the Alpine, ALOT, but I can't get past the drivetrain as an ownership prospect, so that's my loss but am so happy it exists, and to sometimes see.
The Cayman, whilst a default choice at this price point, makes it sound/feel like a ubiquitous grey vehicle, actually isn't... well not in my experience, I see more of them than Alpines, but I see more GT86s or TT's or Z4s, 370's etc...
And bearing in mind its pretty much 75-80% the 911 of your chosen era, it is a superbly engineered thing with looks that (subjectively) age very well.
987 has all the feel
981 has more tech and solidity
718 is the same as the 981 just incrementally more as Porsche tend to do...
I chose a 981, that I bought after 7 years of S2000 ownership. No regrets, yet to see another like mine...
This thread is talking about the GR86 not the GT86. I'm not a card carrying track god, so for me it was mostly about style/aesthetics, engagement, character then engineering, over and above absolute value for money or handling at the limit.
I loved the GT86 concept, I wept at the reality - so that'd get a no from me.
I love the Alpine, ALOT, but I can't get past the drivetrain as an ownership prospect, so that's my loss but am so happy it exists, and to sometimes see.
The Cayman, whilst a default choice at this price point, makes it sound/feel like a ubiquitous grey vehicle, actually isn't... well not in my experience, I see more of them than Alpines, but I see more GT86s or TT's or Z4s, 370's etc...
And bearing in mind its pretty much 75-80% the 911 of your chosen era, it is a superbly engineered thing with looks that (subjectively) age very well.
987 has all the feel
981 has more tech and solidity
718 is the same as the 981 just incrementally more as Porsche tend to do...
I chose a 981, that I bought after 7 years of S2000 ownership. No regrets, yet to see another like mine...
I like to spend time with owners of the same car brand I have - do a reasonable number of drive out days etc.
When I had a Boxster S the attitude of many other Porsche owners / drivers turned me off - so much arrogance and snobbery about spec / options and the dreaded and ill founded "poor mans 9112 soured the ownership experience
The TVR world was fantastic and the polar opposite, zero arrogance and one upmanship and really added to the whole ownership experience, it was a great 4 years of group drives, events etc
The Alpine ownership experience sits a lot more closely tot he TVR experience than the Porsche experience- not as many of us and we are not blinded by the positives of the car that we do not see the negatives but it feels like a club environment and there is a lot of help / advice out there.
There were no GR86s available to drive at the time I was looking but had driven the GT86 a fair bit and always enjoyed it both on road and track and it could have been a contender.
I did try a Cayman (new) before buying the A110, spending a fair about of my driving time around North Wales, the Cayman simply felt too big and too heavy. Superficial quality is definitely better than the A110, but you don't need to look far to see that this does not necessarily translate into reliability and was not my primary buying factor, that was for it to be a light, nimble car that put a smile on my face, the A110 simply delivered that to me more than the Cayman did.
For me, I feel that the A110 occupies a spot between the Elise and Boxster / Cayman in terms of driving dynamics and usability - it suis my needs as a 3rd car perfectly
Do I think people are wrong for buying Caymans, GR86s etc - absolutely not, I chose what suited me, others will do the same and thank goodness we still have that choice available
When I had a Boxster S the attitude of many other Porsche owners / drivers turned me off - so much arrogance and snobbery about spec / options and the dreaded and ill founded "poor mans 9112 soured the ownership experience
The TVR world was fantastic and the polar opposite, zero arrogance and one upmanship and really added to the whole ownership experience, it was a great 4 years of group drives, events etc
The Alpine ownership experience sits a lot more closely tot he TVR experience than the Porsche experience- not as many of us and we are not blinded by the positives of the car that we do not see the negatives but it feels like a club environment and there is a lot of help / advice out there.
There were no GR86s available to drive at the time I was looking but had driven the GT86 a fair bit and always enjoyed it both on road and track and it could have been a contender.
I did try a Cayman (new) before buying the A110, spending a fair about of my driving time around North Wales, the Cayman simply felt too big and too heavy. Superficial quality is definitely better than the A110, but you don't need to look far to see that this does not necessarily translate into reliability and was not my primary buying factor, that was for it to be a light, nimble car that put a smile on my face, the A110 simply delivered that to me more than the Cayman did.
For me, I feel that the A110 occupies a spot between the Elise and Boxster / Cayman in terms of driving dynamics and usability - it suis my needs as a 3rd car perfectly
Do I think people are wrong for buying Caymans, GR86s etc - absolutely not, I chose what suited me, others will do the same and thank goodness we still have that choice available
Edited by Andy665 on Thursday 23 May 10:01
post amended
LeoSayer said:
I'm a touch over 6'3" and the Toyota and Alpine have more than enough room although the Toyota really benefits from a steering wheel spacer for a more natural driving position.
Interesting - I had a steering wheel spacer on my 987 and it improved it no end for me as I'm relaitively long in the body. I'm test driving a GR on Saturday, wish me luckI had the same decision.
I recommend going to your nearest Alpine dealer and asking for try the demo car. They will gladly oblige.
I was planning to get the 981 Cayman but wanted to try the Alpine just to make sure ... but I fell immediately in love with it.
I test drove:
Elise
Evora
Cayman 981
Cayman 718 GTS
Cayman 987
AMG GT
TTRS
i8
M2
LC500
Ferrari Cali T
I recommend going to your nearest Alpine dealer and asking for try the demo car. They will gladly oblige.
I was planning to get the 981 Cayman but wanted to try the Alpine just to make sure ... but I fell immediately in love with it.
I test drove:
Elise
Evora
Cayman 981
Cayman 718 GTS
Cayman 987
AMG GT
TTRS
i8
M2
LC500
Ferrari Cali T
I considered getting a Cayman or Boxster a few years ago.
A 981 S at the time was the same as a new 718 2.0 with light options. I preferred the 718 2.0 in manual form to the 981 S PDK 3.4 I drove which I found a bit boring. Might have been the auto box but I was used to auto. I think it was maybe a bit too good which made it a bit dull.
A GR86 just feels right in the first few hundred meters. The new versus used compared to the Porsche swayed me.
I haven’t driven an Alpine.
A 981 S at the time was the same as a new 718 2.0 with light options. I preferred the 718 2.0 in manual form to the 981 S PDK 3.4 I drove which I found a bit boring. Might have been the auto box but I was used to auto. I think it was maybe a bit too good which made it a bit dull.
A GR86 just feels right in the first few hundred meters. The new versus used compared to the Porsche swayed me.
I haven’t driven an Alpine.
MR2 Steve said:
I considered getting a Cayman or Boxster a few years ago.
A 981 S at the time was the same as a new 718 2.0 with light options. I preferred the 718 2.0 in manual form to the 981 S PDK 3.4 I drove which I found a bit boring. Might have been the auto box but I was used to auto. I think it was maybe a bit too good which made it a bit dull.
A GR86 just feels right in the first few hundred meters. The new versus used compared to the Porsche swayed me.
I haven’t driven an Alpine.
I think with the Porsches their hands are tied as a big proportion of their clientele just want to be able to nip to the shops or drive the car to work, which means they have to make a driver's car, but also a car that wouldn't be too much for a hair salon owner who's done well for herself and wants to treat herself to something she's proud of. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it limits what Porsche can do.A 981 S at the time was the same as a new 718 2.0 with light options. I preferred the 718 2.0 in manual form to the 981 S PDK 3.4 I drove which I found a bit boring. Might have been the auto box but I was used to auto. I think it was maybe a bit too good which made it a bit dull.
A GR86 just feels right in the first few hundred meters. The new versus used compared to the Porsche swayed me.
I haven’t driven an Alpine.
Where as Alpine put in the double wishbone suspension which severely compromised boot space and has absolutely no storage space.
I suspect the GR86 is like this in it's own way too. It's design for someone who wants to really drive it.
AlexNJ89 said:
I had the same decision.
I recommend going to your nearest Alpine dealer and asking for try the demo car. They will gladly oblige.
I was planning to get the 981 Cayman but wanted to try the Alpine just to make sure ... but I fell immediately in love with it.
I test drove:
Elise
Evora
Cayman 981
Cayman 718 GTS
Cayman 987
AMG GT
TTRS
i8
M2
LC500
Ferrari Cali T
Lol, you weren't taking any chances were you? How did the test drives go then?I recommend going to your nearest Alpine dealer and asking for try the demo car. They will gladly oblige.
I was planning to get the 981 Cayman but wanted to try the Alpine just to make sure ... but I fell immediately in love with it.
I test drove:
Elise
Evora
Cayman 981
Cayman 718 GTS
Cayman 987
AMG GT
TTRS
i8
M2
LC500
Ferrari Cali T
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