Fancy an affordable old school "supercar"

[Simon-Cook]

Porsche 928? Not mid engine but does have a 50/50 weight distribution and the era is right. My old man has a 928 GT. At car shows its a magnet. Amazing car to drive too.

[anonymous-user]

Simon-Cook said:

Porsche 928? Not mid engine but does have a 50/50 weight distribution and the era is right. My old man has a 928 GT. At car shows its a magnet. Amazing car to drive too.

Amazing car but more GT than supercar

[emperorburger]

SPKR said:

emperorburger said:

The Mondial gets unfairly beaten up. It's aged really well and is an elegant attractive design. I would take a Mondial or Merak over an S4 Esprit any day of the week.

From a design point of view, sure. It's a matter of preference. But from a driving point of view, wouldn't you say the Esprit S4 is a sharper drive than both?

Unquestionably, the Esprit will be the sharper drive, however part of the experience of older cars is enjoying their limitations as much as their capabilities.

[RikF430]

emperorburger said:

Unquestionably, the Esprit will be the sharper drive, however part of the experience of older cars is enjoying their limitations as much as their capabilities.

That experience thing is so spot-on. No PAS, no gizmos, that horrible Renault box... but getting them all working together is a hugely satisfying thing for an average driver like me (whereas the F355 turned me into a God). Whether my variant is the sharper drive, I don't know: I just love it and the 10 seconds breathing time you need before firing it up - yes of course it always starts, ye of little faith! - just to get into the zone and lose bad habits.

The Mondial is looking insanely good value at sub £30k as posted above (I have my fully documented Esprit X180 on at at £18k and it is one of the cheapest!) and if only Merak's could be had for £10k...

[SPKR]

Simon-Cook said:

Porsche 928? Not mid engine but does have a 50/50 weight distribution and the era is right. My old man has a 928 GT. At car shows its a magnet. Amazing car to drive too.

Thanks. But totally the wrong car. I also never found them attractive. I much prefer the look of the 944.

[SPKR]

emperorburger said:

Unquestionably, the Esprit will be the sharper drive, however part of the experience of older cars is enjoying their limitations as much as their capabilities.

I understand you. But what I want is some of the old school feeling but still a sharp drive somewhat. Like I was saying, late 80s early 90s is probably perfect. Besides being the sharper drive the Esprit also looks better than the Mondial in my opinion.

But it is truly a pity the Esprit is really alone here. So many great supercars with pop ups were made. All now with the price jacked up by people who don't even drive them. Just to keep them gathering dust so they can brag. Very frustrating.

Things like the F40, F1, F50 and similar would always be expensive and out of reach. But Meraks, Boras, Jalpas, Panteras, Venturis and similar should be reachable. As it used to be a few decades ago where cars that old would be affordable. Honestly even the Countach is way too much money.

It wouldn't be so bad if the people buying them were doing so to drive. But they buy and lock it away.

[Oilchange]

The Esprit is a really sharp drive, quite forgiving too. Still room for improvement in some places though.

[Benbay001]

To many it isnt a supecar, but my C5 Corvette Z06 has the same fastest Nurburgring lap time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge, yet cost me £15.5k to buy, parts are pittence and has been reliable in the time ive had it. (many examples of 200000 mile ones in the US)

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel4127-1143.htm
(comparison, 360 challenge vs c5 z06)

Edit: a picture (not mine)

[Shifter1]

Benbay001 said:

To many it isnt a supecar, but my C5 Corvette Z06

To whom is a Corvette C5 a supercar?

Besides it has the engine in the wrong place for the thread.

[Shifter1]

Oilchange said:

The Esprit is a really sharp drive, quite forgiving too. Still room for improvement in some places though.

What would these places be? Do you own one? Curious.

[Shifter1]

SPKR said:

I understand you. But what I want is some of the old school feeling but still a sharp drive somewhat. Like I was saying, late 80s early 90s is probably perfect. Besides being the sharper drive the Esprit also looks better than the Mondial in my opinion.

But it is truly a pity the Esprit is really alone here. So many great supercars with pop ups were made. All now with the price jacked up by people who don't even drive them. Just to keep them gathering dust so they can brag. Very frustrating.

Things like the F40, F1, F50 and similar would always be expensive and out of reach. But Meraks, Boras, Jalpas, Panteras, Venturis and similar should be reachable. As it used to be a few decades ago where cars that old would be affordable. Honestly even the Countach is way too much money.

It wouldn't be so bad if the people buying them were doing so to drive. But they buy and lock it away.

But if the Esprit cuts it, you only need the one right?

But totally agree with you and see where you are coming from.

[Oilchange]

Shifter1 said:

Oilchange said:

The Esprit is a really sharp drive, quite forgiving too. Still room for improvement in some places though.

What would these places be? Do you own one? Curious.

This one.
Brakes, brakes, brakes.
And a Quaife diff.
There are a couple of things the engine could do with like a Sport300 ecu, flowed ported head with S300 inlet valves and a few lightweight bits that can make a big difference like the battery. Just taking the spare wheel out of the front makes it steer much better and they steer really well already.

[Benbay001]

Shifter1 said:

To whom is a Corvette C5 a supercar?

Besides it has the engine in the wrong place for the thread.

I agree, which is why id never specifically call it one.

But if you asked most people to list the requirements for what makes a car a supercar, im sure it would meet most of them.

• Big v8 engine
• Fast
• 2 seats
• Rare (Especially in the UK. You probably see fewer Corvettes than you do Ferraris and Lambos?)
• Quick track times.
• Everyone looks
• Great sound

For £15k you probably get 90% of the experience of a Ferrari 360, for a quarter of the price. Which i thought was ultimately the purpose of this thread?

[Pvapour]

Benbay001 said:

Shifter1 said:

To whom is a Corvette C5 a supercar?

Besides it has the engine in the wrong place for the thread.

I agree, which is why id never specifically call it one.

But if you asked most people to list the requirements for what makes a car a supercar, im sure it would meet most of them.

• Big v8 engine
• Fast
• 2 seats
• Rare (Especially in the UK. You probably see fewer Corvettes than you do Ferraris and Lambos?)
• Quick track times.
• Everyone looks
• Great sound

For £15k you probably get 90% of the experience of a Ferrari 360, for a quarter of the price. Which i thought was ultimately the purpose of this thread?

I think the meaning of this thread was not about bang for buck, more about nostalgia of an old pop up headlight supercar from the 80s / 90s that ‘looked’ like a supercar ie wedge shaped cliche supercar shape.

I love the C5, thought it better than the C6 personally (had both) but the majority of english dont get nostalgic about old vettes, more so about mustangs probably but neither have been considered a supercar by brits even if they were as quick in most cases, more practical to, which 80s / 90s supercars cannot in any way, be

[NDNDNDND]

AC 3000ME?

[SPKR]

Benbay001 said:

To many it isnt a supecar, but my C5 Corvette Z06 has the same fastest Nurburgring lap time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge, yet cost me £15.5k to buy, parts are pittence and has been reliable in the time ive had it. (many examples of 200000 mile ones in the US)

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel4127-1143.htm
(comparison, 360 challenge vs c5 z06)

Edit: a picture (not mine)

Thank you. But a Corvette is not what I fancy at all.

I would like a supercar of sorts. Corvette couldn't be more distant from that. It's not about speed here. Probably anything can go fast if you tune hp. But as I say in my first post, it's also about that special feeling you get when sitting in a supercar. You get that from a Esprit, Ferraris and others. I never felt that in a Corvette or Mustang. Wrong cars.

It absolutely must be rear mid engine too. I think this is a big part of that feeling too.

[SPKR]

Shifter1 said:

But if the Esprit cuts it, you only need the one right?

But totally agree with you and see where you are coming from.

It is looking like it will indeed be it. But I swing between a Turbo Esprit and a Esprit Turbo. I must decide. The late cars are out of contention. I don't like the facelift.

It is just sad that the Esprit is the only option. It is also probably due to some fluke in the market.

[SPKR]

Pvapour said:

I think the meaning of this thread was not about bang for buck, more about nostalgia of an old pop up headlight supercar from the 80s / 90s that ‘looked’ like a supercar ie wedge shaped cliche supercar shape.

I love the C5, thought it better than the C6 personally (had both) but the majority of english dont get nostalgic about old vettes, more so about mustangs probably but neither have been considered a supercar by brits even if they were as quick in most cases, more practical to, which 80s / 90s supercars cannot in any way, be

You are absolutely right. I can see how when I say affordable people can understand bang for the buck. But it was not that.

[SPKR]

NDNDNDND said:

AC 3000ME?

This was already suggested. I don't think it is supercar material. More like a MR2. To me at least. Doesn't fit what I have in mind. But thanks.

[SSO]

SPKR said:

Which brings me to the 348. Problem with the 348, 355 and even the Mondial T is that much of the service is an engine out affair. This is the biggest advantage of the pre Modial T cars. The engine doesn't have to come out.

When you hear the Mondials are not so expensive to run, it's normally meant the older pre facelift cars before the Mondial T. But the Mondial T looks better and has the updated interior which looks like the Testarossa interior. The older Mondials are just not as nice in my opinion.

I just finished an article covering about 18 years of maintenance costs across a range of Ferraris. One of the conclusions is regardless of the model, it will run you about GBP 2k a year.